Irish Sunderland fan here. Debate very interesting

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Originally Posted by The Dublin Red

I wouldn't regard myself as a mercenary quite frankly, if I hopped between clubs then yes I would be.

Clubs like Forest have support well outside the city and county boundries I know the people I go to games with come from all over England, there are also Norwegian, Swedish and Belgian Branches to name three.

It still all comes down to personal choice and people having the freedom to spend money as they see fit. Being dictated to and told your lesser by certain supporters makes absolutely no difference to me or the other thousands who support clubs outside this juristiction.

As I said before its no different to the GAA Taliban having a go at soccer supporters for chosing a foreign game over THE national sport.

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Association Football has been played in Ireland for longer than the GAA games so it could hardly be described as 'foreign'. I grew up in a football family and, if anything, gaelic games were 'foreign' to me. Besides, the GAA picks and chooses what it calls 'foreign' as golf, American football, boxing, basketball and - as Thomas Davis had on Paddy's Day in their clubhouse - American Wrestling all seem to be okay, but football and rugby union are verboten.
I'm not knocking you for supporting a football club, I just can't understand why you'd place your loyalties in somewhere as obscure as Nottingham rather than at home. What's the point? It's not about 'spending money' either, as you couldn't equate supporting a football club with buying a book or a pair of jeans.
There's a dichotomy at the heart of your support for Forest that cannot be dismissed as mere consumerism given that the club isn't up to much these days. If you're making a choice, how come you continue to make such a poor one? And why support a rubbish English club when there are plenty of rubbish Irish clubs, some much better than Forest, that you could support on a weekly basis? There must be more to your support than something as bland and meaningless as 'choice'.
For example: if England are playing Ireland, who would you be up for? Would it be your 'choice' to support one over the other?
If football isn't about a sense of place and identity then it's just a game. Maybe that's the difference between you and I. To me, Shamrock Rovers is a way of life and not a matter of choice.
You chose Forest; I am Rovers.

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Originally Posted by Billy Lord

Association Football has been played in Ireland for longer than the GAA games so it could hardly be described as 'foreign'. I grew up in a football family and, if anything, gaelic games were 'foreign' to me. Besides, the GAA picks and chooses what it calls 'foreign' as golf, American football, boxing, basketball and - as Thomas Davis had on Paddy's Day in their clubhouse - American Wrestling all seem to be okay, but football and rugby union are verboten.
I'm not knocking you for supporting a football club, I just can't understand why you'd place your loyalties in somewhere as obscure as Nottingham rather than at home. What's the point? It's not about 'spending money' either, as you couldn't equate supporting a football club with buying a book or a pair of jeans.
There's a dichotomy at the heart of your support for Forest that cannot be dismissed as mere consumerism given that the club isn't up to much these days. If you're making a choice, how come you continue to make such a poor one? And why support a rubbish English club when there are plenty of rubbish Irish clubs, some much better than Forest, that you could support on a weekly basis? There must be more to your support than something as bland and meaningless as 'choice'.
For example: if England are playing Ireland, who would you be up for? Would it be your 'choice' to support one over the other?
If football isn't about a sense of place and identity then it's just a game. Maybe that's the difference between you and I. To me, Shamrock Rovers is a way of life and not a matter of choice.
You chose Forest; I am Rovers.

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Altogether now everyone.....*slow hand clap*

A couple of points there, who in Ireland are better than Forest? The standard of the league this year is muck, pretty much everyone around here agrees to that, and Forest aren't that bad a League One side, one that could easily be a Championship side by next week.

If football is solely about a place and identity than surely there is a point to be made as regards what identity Ireland as a whole has taken on today? We live in a country that is British in culture, so surely it could be argued that since we grew up in this culture that it doesn't take much of a leap to start supporting a British football team?

When you ask if you're making a choice how come you make such a poor one, well that's really just your opinion, most football fans in Ireland think we make a poor choice every week we go to watch our respective teams

I'm assuming that this Forest supporter initially started watching them when they were a 1st Division/Premiership team? If so then I think he should be applauded fro sticking with them through the rough patches, surely thats the hallmark of someone who isn't a 'barstooler'? For my part I've been a Sheffield Wednesday supporter for 15 years now, a Limerick supporter for 5, would it not be idiotic of me to say that I've dropped my support for Wednesday, just because I go to Limerick games more frequently? Up until two years I would have probably said that I still support Wednesday more than Limerick, thats changed because of the obvious reason that I watch Limerick more, enjoy the atmosphere (especially on away trips) and talk about Limerick's fortunes more, but I wouldn't go around castigating anyone for choosing to support a British club, especially as I still watch English football probably the most of any other country in this world, and I still rank myself as a Sheffield Wednesday supporter

Just my two pence worth here, on local radio this morning there was a DJ on from Sunderland talking to our own local Dj and "our" link with this foreign club is Daryl Murphy, now i wish Daryl well dont get me wrong but even down here there is people going around wearing foreign jerseys and some with Murphy on the back of them.
There was a good few Blues heads texted in saying If these Gob****es spent their money on home clubs instead of UK clubs then the league would be the better for it , 1 particluar guy who texted in said to the DJ " who do u want to see - a successful Blues or a successful Sunderland. "
I have no time for foreign clubs, f**k it if you cant support your own local team then u aint a footie supporter,supporting your local club is about who you are, nothing compares as we all know in going week in week out around the countryside following "your" team and when you do that you can proudly call yourself a soccer supporter!

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Originally Posted by Billy Lord

Association Football has been played in Ireland for longer than the GAA games so it could hardly be described as 'foreign'. I grew up in a football family and, if anything, gaelic games were 'foreign' to me. Besides, the GAA picks and chooses what it calls 'foreign' as golf, American football, boxing, basketball and - as Thomas Davis had on Paddy's Day in their clubhouse - American Wrestling all seem to be okay, but football and rugby union are verboten.
I'm not knocking you for supporting a football club, I just can't understand why you'd place your loyalties in somewhere as obscure as Nottingham rather than at home. What's the point? It's not about 'spending money' either, as you couldn't equate supporting a football club with buying a book or a pair of jeans.
There's a dichotomy at the heart of your support for Forest that cannot be dismissed as mere consumerism given that the club isn't up to much these days. If you're making a choice, how come you continue to make such a poor one? And why support a rubbish English club when there are plenty of rubbish Irish clubs, some much better than Forest, that you could support on a weekly basis? There must be more to your support than something as bland and meaningless as 'choice'.
For example: if England are playing Ireland, who would you be up for? Would it be your 'choice' to support one over the other?
If football isn't about a sense of place and identity then it's just a game. Maybe that's the difference between you and I. To me, Shamrock Rovers is a way of life and not a matter of choice.
You chose Forest; I am Rovers.

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Your point about the GAA would get my agreement however the argument you make is similar to the narrowness that sections of the GAA support hold. For them you are a lesser irish person as you've chosen to support a foreign game. I don't agree with it but that viewpoint exists.

However your views of me I see as being exactly the same and another reason why the LOI may unfortunately remain small. You make the point that my club is "rubbish" and why do I stick with them. You are now beginning to sound like a barstooler. I hear this from Man U and Arsenal fans, as Forest are rubbish why stick with them??? I've explained in previous posts why I support Forest, in summary it began at 12 years of age in 1988 and influenced by Brian Clough, Robin Hood, my Grandad and a new schoolbag! Once I began making the trips over I was hooked and although I was a LOI season ticket holder during my teens both experiences could not be compared. I'm sure its different for others but that is MY choice.

The England V Ireland point is ridiculous. I support Ireland but I don't hate England for that matter.

As for Shamrock Rovers, is it for Dublin people only then? or Tallaght people? or what?

I'm going to the City Ground for the last match of the season (hopefully) I cannot wait to go and the day will be a total buzz from pre-match pints to a 30,000 crowd! The fact remains English football is exciting and for many of us we are addicted. In what other league in the World could a 3rd division football club command a 30,000 gate?

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Originally Posted by Mental Man

Just my two pence worth here, on local radio this morning there was a DJ on from Sunderland talking to our own local Dj and "our" link with this foreign club is Daryl Murphy, now i wish Daryl well dont get me wrong but even down here there is people going around wearing foreign jerseys and some with Murphy on the back of them.
There was a good few Blues heads texted in saying If these Gob****es spent their money on home clubs instead of UK clubs then the league would be the better for it , 1 particluar guy who texted in said to the DJ " who do u want to see - a successful Blues or a successful Sunderland. "
I have no time for foreign clubs, f**k it if you cant support your own local team then u aint a footie supporter,supporting your local club is about who you are, nothing compares as we all know in going week in week out around the countryside following "your" team and when you do that you can proudly call yourself a soccer supporter!

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That's your perogative but with attitudes like this those interested in football will remain in the bars and packing them out when the Champions League is on!

Sell the LOI to all football people, its a great product but don't make it exclusive, if people have an English club respect it and don't turn into GAA style bigots.

depends if a big club got relegated 2 divisions

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Originally Posted by The Dublin Red

As for Shamrock Rovers, is it for Dublin people only then? or Tallaght people? or what?

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Rovers is for any and all people who want to KOH, regardless of geographical persuasion, as long as they are not well in the head and they don't bring mandarins and satsumas to the match.

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Originally Posted by Fingal hoop

depends if a big club got relegated 2 divisions

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One division is OK then?

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Originally Posted by The Dublin Red

The internet is a breeding ground for every lunatic and this is hardly representative.

Have you ever seen the Irish section on **********? Paints a sizeable number of Irish as racist scum.

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Some good points made there by the real fans. Because of the idiot paddies who ignore their own league going over in their droves like sheep the prices have gone up and real fans there cant get tickets.

Bottom line you're not from nottingham so you can never have any identity with them. It's got nothing to do with narrow mindedness, bigotry or who is the better Irishman.

KOH

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Originally Posted by NY Hoop

Some good points made there by the real fans. Because of the idiot paddies who ignore their own league going over in their droves like sheep the prices have gone up and real fans there cant get tickets.

Bottom line you're not from nottingham so you can never have any identity with them. It's got nothing to do with narrow mindedness, bigotry or who is the better Irishman.

KOH

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By that logic the famous Wexford fan who goes to every Shelbourne game is not a real fan and never will be. It's a flawed logic.

I spend an awful lot of time in Tallaght and for the last few years I planned on buying a Rovers season ticket when the stadium gets finished. It still might happen but you make me have doubts. I will probably live in Tallaght in the long run as that's where my girlfriend of the last 4 years is from. Am I not allowed to support your club?

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Originally Posted by NY Hoop

Bottom line you're not from nottingham so you can never have any identity with them.

KOH

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How do/would you feel about Rovers fans who were not from Dublin, and didnt have any link with the team, but, when growing up, liked what they saw of Rovers on the tv/news, and followed them?

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Originally Posted by passinginterest

By that logic the famous Wexford fan who goes to every Shelbourne game is not a real fan and never will be. It's a flawed logic.

I spend an awful lot of time in Tallaght and for the last few years I planned on buying a Rovers season ticket when the stadium gets finished. It still might happen but you make me have doubts. I will probably live in Tallaght in the long run as that's where my girlfriend of the last 4 years is from. Am I not allowed to support your club?

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Wrong. My point is that he's not english so why support an english club? I couldnt care less where in Ireland you're from if you support Rovers. Even from limerick:D

You're more than welcome to support us when we get into Tallaght.

BTW see the star today for news that should blow the Thomas Bigots theory on the pitch out of the water.

KOH

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Originally Posted by NY Hoop

Wrong. My point is that he's not english so why support an english club? I couldnt care less where in Ireland you're from if you support Rovers. Even from limerick:D

You're more than welcome to support us when we get into Tallaght.

BTW see the star today for news that should blow the Thomas Bigots theory on the pitch out of the water.

KOH

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You said he's not from Nottingham in the original post. Where do you draw the line? I just think taking such an idealistic viewpoint is likely to drive people away rather than attract more badly needed support.

he doesnt passinginterest, he never debates with the point in hand. just circles round it.

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Originally Posted by NY Hoop

Some good points made there by the real fans. Because of the idiot paddies who ignore their own league going over in their droves like sheep the prices have gone up and real fans there cant get tickets.

Bottom line you're not from nottingham so you can never have any identity with them. It's got nothing to do with narrow mindedness, bigotry or who is the better Irishman.

KOH

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Absolute rubbish.

So you think on the bais of a few fools on the internet that the Irish have driven up prices and keep the real fans out:rolleyes: Are you having a laugh? What evidence have you for this?

Chelsea, Man Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal certainly get the tourist fans who come from all OVER the world. I never though a country with 4 million people could dominate the national support of a country with 50 million.

Bottom line is you're narrow minded and have more in common with the GAA taliban than you think. I'm a Dublin GAA supporter do I look down my nose at you for supporting foreign games. No off course I don't I respect your views.

To suggest I can never have any identity with Nottingham Forest is patronising in the extreme. What next Ireland for the Irish? I suppose you object to foreign players in the LOI? or foreign supporters? I know where my loyalty lies and the fact that only someone from Dublin could question my "identity" is laughable.

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Originally Posted by NY Hoop

Some good points made there by the real fans. Because of the idiot paddies who ignore their own league going over in their droves like sheep the prices have gone up and real fans there cant get tickets.

Bottom line you're not from nottingham so you can never have any identity with them. It's got nothing to do with narrow mindedness, bigotry or who is the better Irishman.

KOH

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But if people in Meath or Lucan or wherever support Bohs and the Bohs family includes them and they can share the Bohs "identity", and people from the Northside or outside Dublin support Rovers and the Rovers family includes them and they can share the Rovers "identity", is it not the stark reality that since the '70s English clubs' "identities", shared by all their fans, include international fan clubs?

Rovers isn't an Irishtown/Ringsend club for working-class Irishtown/Ringsend people any more. When it was founded the idea of the club one day fighting tooth and nail for a support base in the then sleepy country village of Tallaght would have been preposterous. Things change. Over the course of your history lots of other types of supporters have become part of what Rovers is. I'm sure there's one or two supporters who still live in their grandads' houses on Shamrock Avenue who think that they're the only ones who can rightfully call themselves supporters but the simple fact is that it's not their club any more.

Part of what you support, as a Rovers man, includes some hypothetical gloryhunting gobsheen in deepest, darkest Longford whose brudder had digs out near Milltown and saw you win all round you in the '80s and wrote letters home about it that the parish priest would read out for the family, the mammy subsequently knitting him a "Newtown Forbes Hoops" scarf. That's part of your identity.

Liverpool is no longer solely for the people of Anfield, United no longer a club for Salford. There is a well established foreign element to their identity, just as there is a well established identity in Ireland that consists of meeting your mates and arguing about English football and probably going over to the matches once in a while.

Just as there is an established identity in singing cringeworthy rip-offs of English fans' songs at Irish football matches and aping their hooligan escapades. Where do these wonderful, pure, native Irish, real football fans get these tunes from, I wonder?

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Originally Posted by The Dublin Red

Bottom line is you're narrow minded and have more in common with the GAA taliban than you think. I'm a Dublin GAA supporter do I look down my nose at you for supporting foreign games. No off course I don't I respect your views.

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We've already pointed out that association football has been on this island longer than the Gaelic code, but its not about foreign sports or national sports its about supporting something you have a genuine connection with, something that you have the ability to pe part of week in week out. I follow Everton as my second club but I can't go their every week so you don't become part of it. To paraphrase Billy, I follow Everton but I am part of Bohs. Thats where the difference lies. As you said you support the Dublin GAA team. Why not support Kerry, Armagh or Meath?

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Originally Posted by NY Hoop

Some good points made there by the real fans. Because of the idiot paddies who ignore their own league going over in their droves like sheep the prices have gone up and real fans there cant get tickets.

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Did you just say there was some good points made on ********** :eek: :eek: Now I know you're a bit of a fool and all Hoop, but jesus christ

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Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

To paraphrase Billy, I follow Everton but I am part of Bohs. Thats where the difference lies.

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But thats only the difference lies for you. That encapsulates how you see the difference in your support for Bohs and Everton.

NY Hoop is saying, that by virtue of his not being from Nottingham, it is impossible for DublinRed to feel the same affinity as he would with a side he sees week in and out.

There is no way that NY Hoop, or you, can make that statement for him.

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Originally Posted by jebus

Did you just say there was some good points made on ********** :eek: :eek: Now I know you're a bit of a fool and all Hoop, but jesus christ

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Jesus man I didnt mean ********** I meant the original link to football365.com.

Forest fan if you think it's just "a few fools on the internet" who think like that good luck. Cant help what you think but you're wrong.

Erstwhile Irish clubs should be supported not ignored by Irish people but thanks for the history and geography lesson.

Passinginterest do you honestly think that because of what I or others think will drive people away from the league?

KOH

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Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

We've already pointed out that association football has been on this island longer than the Gaelic code, but its not about foreign sports or national sports its about supporting something you have a genuine connection with, something that you have the ability to pe part of week in week out. I follow Everton as my second club but I can't go their every week so you don't become part of it. To paraphrase Billy, I follow Everton but I am part of Bohs. Thats where the difference lies. As you said you support the Dublin GAA team. Why not support Kerry, Armagh or Meath?

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I accept that point but what you'll get back is that Gaelic Games are the only true national sports and that they are the premier games.

I take your point on Dublin GAA but again for me its a different sport and that because the Ga is exclusive to Ireland and still "amateur" people will stick to their counties anyway.

I respect that you are more a Bohs supporter and feel part of it but in all honesty that what I feel for Forest as to a large extent I've lost my LOI affinity.

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Originally Posted by NY Hoop

Jesus man I didnt mean ********** I meant the original link to football365.com.

Forest fan if you think it's just "a few fools on the internet" who think like that good luck. Cant help what you think but you're wrong.

Erstwhile Irish clubs should be supported not ignored by Irish people but thanks for the history and geography lesson.

Passinginterest do you honestly think that because of what I or others think will drive people away from the league?

KOH

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Well forgive me for suggesting that I have a bit of knowledge on this subject as I travel over at least once a month. I've never experienced whats being described.

I see you ignored the rest of the post;)

You say that Irish clubs should be supported but again its down to personal choice and your views do little to promote the league

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Originally Posted by The Dublin Red

Well forgive me for suggesting that I have a bit of knowledge on this subject as I travel over at least once a month. I've never experienced whats being described.

I see you ignored the rest of the post;)

You say that Irish clubs should be supported but again its down to personal choice and your views do little to promote the league

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So you've talked to the real utd, chelsea, liverpool fans over there have you?

I ignored the rest of your post cos it was drivel.

Again what people say on an internet site should not sway people one way or the other from going to EL games.

KOH

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Originally Posted by NY Hoop

Passinginterest do you honestly think that because of what I or others think will drive people away from the league?

KOH

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It may be only a very small effect but possibly yes. People who read a message board like this in an effort to find out more about supporting the League of Ireland could be put off.

In fairness to you I admire your passion and commitment to your club and maybe your more extreme opinions aren't going to have any effect on people attending the league. I just get the feeling that encouraging those who grew up 'supporting' English clubs to give the Eircom League a shot would be more effective than dismissing them. :ball:

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Originally Posted by NY Hoop

So you've talked to the real utd, chelsea, liverpool fans over there have you?

I ignored the rest of your post cos it was drivel.

Again what people say on an internet site should not sway people one way or the other from going to EL games.

KOH

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So the supporters of three of the biggest clubs in the World are representative of 92 English Football League Clubs:rolleyes:

And you who detests the fact the English football is so popular have spoken to supporters of how many clubs?

Your patronising and narrow minded views do nothing to sway the neutrals, in fact it would keep people away.

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Originally Posted by The Dublin Red

So the supporters of three of the biggest clubs in the World are representative of 92 English Football League Clubs:rolleyes:

And you who detests the fact the English football is so popular have spoken to supporters of how many clubs?

Your patronising and narrow minded views do nothing to sway the neutrals, in fact it would keep people away.

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Oh dear. This is the reason I ignore you people. Truly clueless. Those 3 biggest clubs have the most Irish fans ffs. Do I have to spell everything out?

I dont detest the way english football is so popular. I just feel sorry for the stupid paddies who "support" it.

Read the last line of my last post:rolleyes:

KOH

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Originally Posted by NY Hoop

Oh dear. This is the reason I ignore you people. Truly clueless. Those 3 biggest clubs have the most Irish fans ffs. Do I have to spell everything out?

I dont detest the way english football is so popular. I just feel sorry for the stupid paddies who "support" it.

Read the last line of my last post:rolleyes:

KOH

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Yeah good man keeps up the insults, it really does progress your argument:rolleyes:

I really couldn't care less what you think, they may be the three biggest but your statement was a blanket for all supporters of English clubs.

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Originally Posted by The Dublin Red

Yeah good man keeps up the insults, it really does progress your argument:rolleyes:

I really couldn't care less what you think, they may be the three biggest but your statement was a blanket for all supporters of English clubs.

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Christ on a balloon. You should be under a blanket.

The majority of Irish people that "support" english football "support" one of the clubs already mentioned. In the link the real fans were complaining that ticket prices have gone up and that tickets are in short supply because of the paddies coming over. Now do you honestly think that he is referring to any club outside the ones already mentioned ffs?

Think McFly think.

KOH

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Originally Posted by NY Hoop

Wrong. My point is that he's not english so why support an english club?
KOH

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2 points. 1 query and 1 massive post on irish PL supporters.

Firstly in response to the post above, where does that leave a guy like me? Im english born, can I support and EL club? As i said before I went to an EL game recently and enjoyed it very much and plan on attending more in the future.

Secondly, irish PL supporters are insane! FACT. As ppl here might know, I am Liverpool born and bred. Last tuesday night we qualified for the CL final again. Every travel agent the length and breadth of country has "SOLD OUT" packages for €2,800 (average) for 2 night trips. You cant actually get on a waiting list for a package. I will get a ticket for the game through the club as a result of loyalty but wont be going as travel to athens from Ireland seems to be almost impossible (bar flying via estonia). I also have a season ticket renewal at the end of the season.

Note : I would never use a travel agent ever!!!

A heck of alot of people were actually phoning travel agents on wed morning in the airport booking their place. I suggested they save their cash and go down to fulham on saturday and support the team but they looked at me like I was mad. One guy actually turned away and laughed.

I probably wont be in athens however I will be at craven cottage on saturday (game is actually on fancard sale so they have no ticket excuses) and charlton home the sunday after. I wonder which games they will be missing.

P.S.---------------------------
Sorry I am a bit annoyed at the moment with the whole thing.

Nobody's saying that the way it is is how it ought to be in a perfect world, reder. In a perfect world the Team of the Macs, Billy Liddell, King Kenny and the rest of the non-English FA Cup team from 1986 would have all been from L4 and we'd never have heard of you because McMurrow wouldn't have got ye over in the first place.

I do genuinely feel for the Liverpool fans who have been squeezed out due to various factors over the last twenty years or so and have had the match-going experience robbed from them. Daytripping is only a symptom of the other diseases that are actually killing English football, and be sure of it.

My infrequent Drums-going uncles, for example, were also Liverpool-mad in the '60s and '70s but there was none of the packaging and commercialization of English football (or money in Dublin) that there is today and the phenomenon of daytripping just wasn't on the agenda. I'm sure all the United fans created when poor Liam Whelan died in Munich and stoked up by the predatory North-South scouting network were in the same boat. The papers and the radio and the odd cup final on telly was all they could manage. I'd like someone to explain to them that any kind of sharing they felt in Shankly's Liverpool was imagined and that they were up their own holes.

One of Shankly's more famous quotes is from before a match at Anfield and a Liverpool fan comes up to him and talks to him. Shankly says, “Where are you from, laddie?” “I'm from London,” says the kid. Shankly goes, “Well, son; what's it like to be in heaven?”

What a wonderful story it would be if he had said, “Well, son; shag off back down south and leave a ticket for a real fan, you gloryhunting little scumbag. You disgust me. You are deluding yourself and destroying football.”

On the more general point, I do think that if you gave most Irish people the choice, they'd prefer things to be how they were in the heyday of Irish soccer with big crowds and a vibrant league, but they can't be bothered getting up off their hole and making the effort to change it around when they can just laugh at the FAI. Just as most people would love to have Irish, to the point of lying through their teeth on the Census, but unfortunately not to the point of gettin up off their hole to do anything about it when they can just blame the way it's taught.

It doesn't make them nasty people or horrible people or idiots or vermin. They're just carrying on as they — we all — were brought up. Slagging them for not ‘seeing the light’ as all of us chosen ones have is very crass.

Dublin Red: when I called your choice rubbish, it was purely in the context of consumerism. It is merely stating a fact that, if your support of Forest is based solely on choice, it makes little sense to go on making that same choice if there is better football on offer elsewhere. Ergo, it's a rubbish choice.
It is admirable that you continue to support the club when it has seen better days, but I would contend that it's not choice but loyalty that keeps you a Forest fan. Would a consumer change their choice if a product they bought regularly showed a decline in quality? But that thought wouldn't enter your head because your loyalty prohibits you from making a rational choice. Any fan worth their salt will keep supporting their club regardless of how badly things are going.
As for someone else (can't remember who) claiming that Forest are better than any club here, I would disagree. The top four LoI clubs would be better. Just my opinion, mind.

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Originally Posted by The Dublin Red

Yeah good man keeps up the insults, it really does progress your argument:rolleyes:

I really couldn't care less what you think, they may be the three biggest but your statement was a blanket for all supporters of English clubs.

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Hi Dublin Red,

If possible try and distance most Eircom League fans from the attitudes of NY Hoop, you are giving his opinions far more attention than they deserve. As an Eircom League fan myself I find his arrogant tone pathetic and embarrassing.

Every club in England has its little Englander types who hate the Irish and that should be far more off-putting for your average Paddy than anything posted here.

If we stopped following teams because of a distasteful element in their support we'd all be ****ed. UCD's attendances would go through the roof, though.

And then it would fall as the distastefull element would start supporting them and so on and so forth...

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Originally Posted by Billy Lord

Every club in England has its little Englander types who hate the Irish and that should be far more off-putting for your average Paddy than anything posted here.

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I actually condsider "The Dublin Red" to be a good fan. He could easily has decided the move away from Forest after their fall from grace but he has stuck with his team through thick and thin. I despise forest but fair play him.

I really dont think that the comments posted on this forum regarding the PL is going to draw any PL fan towards the PL.

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Originally Posted by The Dublin Red

The England V Ireland point is ridiculous. I support Ireland but I don't hate England for that matter.

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But why do you support Ireland ? Did yer mammy buy you a green bag when you were seven ? :confused:

And how is it ridiculous to support a domestic English team over Irish ones, but not the English team (international) over the Irish one....?

It's taken me a few days to get through all the posts on this thread.
The general thing I see coming through all of it is this... there are several strands of interest in football. From my own experience of meeting people in different walks of life and in different countries , you have the following

1) Real Fans, these support their local team . In Ireland they support their nearest ELOI team. In England they support their local team rather than be glory hunting fans of Chelsea, Arsenal etc, who by rights should not have any support in Yorkshire or the North East

2) Glory Hunting Bandwaggoners (Domestic).
These are Scottish in Aberdeen who support the Old Firm. And the Scottish fans have the same disdain for that kind of fan as we do. In England the Londoners who support Man United ,and in Ireland people from West of the Bann who support Linfield for example.

3) Glory Hunting Bandwaggoners (Overseas)
This is the group such as our Sunderland fans over here, fans of the big Premiership clubs , who go cross channel etc.
These are the people who spend a lot of money going to watch football in England or Scotland but most of whom would not cross the road to watch a game here.

4) Barstoolers
Idiots who think supporting a team involves buying a replica shirt a SKY SPORTS Subscription and or going down the pub to watch ALL YOUR games. The phenomenon we experience here of fans no longer attending matches and whole generations going to watch games in bars or only on TV in their homes is no longer a purely Irish experience. The Premiership saturation TV coverage is spreading like a Computer Virus across Europe, aided by it's allies the Primera Liga, Serie A and the Bundesliga , and this is evidenced by falling attendances at domestic League games especially in Central and Eastern Europe.


Now 1) and 3) are potential customers for the ELOI. Although category 3 may in part, by going cross channel , be trying to escape the wife/partner the kids and or the dog.
Category 2) might already be , but won't support Kildare County if they are from Newbridge, you may find them at Dalymount or Richmond instead.

4) are a lost cause and you will never attract them to a game . Even if ELOI clubs started winning UEFA Cups they still wouldn't go.

Someone mentioned marketing the strengths of the ELOI and that's a fair point . Here's one, I can meet supporters whom I know of any of the other 21 League clubs in this country , and we don't need a brigade of riot police to keep us apart. End of really.

People have spoken to here about clubs with the following initials L.F.C, M.U.F.C. and D.C.F.C.
Being Irish I am more interested in Limerick( 37) F.C. than Liverpool
I am more interested in Monaghan United than Manchester United.
And Derry City mean more to me than Derby County.

The pathetic thing about this sceptered little isle on which we live , is that I am in a tiny minority in this .

Bored to tears with this, but I'll plough on as I've nothing better to do. The Ireland thing is relevant: why would any Irish person support Ireland when there are better international teams to choose from? If it's about choice, why choose Ireland?
Having said that, I fervently support Italy in international football, and have done since 1970. So that makes me a domestic football fan with an international barstool mentality. There's a dichotomy!
I still support Ireland by proxy, but gave up on going to games a year or so ago (after 35 years' service) because I felt it was a waste of time. And I hate the fans. The green wigs and Ole Ole chants make me want to puke, and I hate the bell-ringer on the South Terrace with a vengeance. It's like being at a GAA match.
Football is best when it has an edge.

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Originally Posted by TheOwl

Hi Dublin Red,

If possible try and distance most Eircom League fans from the attitudes of NY Hoop, you are giving his opinions far more attention than they deserve. As an Eircom League fan myself I find his arrogant tone pathetic and embarrassing.

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Seconded. Nothing you do or say will stop him posting like that, so please don't waste your time on replying. Reply to people who you can have a debate with.