er, there is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Calcio Jack
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er, there is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Calcio Jack
It was most definitely because of it. European Central Bank raised concerns and called him in, in between he introduced SSIA's as a means to take money out of the economy. So give away budget, particularly for the rich, and then he gives them more Government money if they save it. No wonder he's a right wing hero...Quote:
Originally Posted by GavinZac
What's to explain - are text books, copy books, pencils etc supplied free like they are in most other European countries? Are you aware that the start of the school term is as good a time for loan sharks as Christmas as people struggle to pay for all the books?Quote:
Originally Posted by GavinZac
Now, now Macy that doesn't happen. Have you seen the figures above?? €32,360. Why, I'd wager loan sharks don't even exist anymore ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
So what's the reason ?Quote:
Originally Posted by GavinZac
Parents are afraid to be too strong with their kids given the way that kids go off the walls in teenage years, so they give them video games and DVDs to placate them. the idea of entertaining yourself by playing 3 hours of football every night is probably alien to the majority of irish kids these days.Quote:
Originally Posted by Calcio Jack
An over supply of processed food is another obvious cause, and i think our government should invest in creating healthy school cafeterias. kids should be fed a healthy lunch and dinner before they are sent home, because parents just aren't doing it anymore.
Wonderful post Calcio Jack!
GavicZac, how about skipping your usual tactic of picking one item in a post and attacking it, and this time addressing the other 95% of it?
adam
Books were loaned free to us in primary school and for a loan scheme of £30 in secondary school. In what countries is education truly free then? and how does ireland compare to them, and to the many countries where some or every step of the education ladder is fee-paying? i'm not being smart, i'm honestly curious. it strikes me, and the multinationals who come here looking for an educated english speaking work force, that the one thing we do have is a good education system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
Primary education is as good as fee paying with (compulsory) "voluntary" donations required for each child.Quote:
Originally Posted by GavinZac
BTW, Well put by Calcio Jack.
I'd like to also say well done to Mr.JackQuote:
Originally Posted by BohsPartisan
Although it is a little grating that I can bang my head against a wall for three pages then someone can just come on with a gem of a post like that :p
I agree with a lot of it! And some of it is waffle. FF are at fault for house prices, not the gullible irish public willing to pay vastly over inflated prices to a flush construction industry? FF specifically targeted the middle class for the SSIA scheme? Benchmarking is somehow a bad thing?Quote:
Originally Posted by dahamsta
Remember I've already said I'm voting for mick barry and not particularly pushed on voting for FF. However, in terms of the bigger picture, i dont have a problem with FF staying in power, as the only other option is fine gael and i'll end up emigrating if that reactionary tool gets in government.
I was thinking the same :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Lim till i die
Surely, given the damning assessment Calcio just gave that even if you agree with just some of it, it would be enough to put you off Fianna Fail? Or at least enough to make you seriously doubt ticking their box come election time?Quote:
Originally Posted by GavinZac
Did you read the rest of the post? I won't be ticking their box, most probably. Yes there have been questionable decisions along the way to our better position, but I never said that FF have done everything perfect. Certainly not. I just think we'd be better off giving them another term rather than inflicting enda on the state.Quote:
Originally Posted by jebus
What are you supposed to do? Continue paying extortionate rent to greedy landlords?Quote:
Originally Posted by GavinZac
Stay at home with your parents into your forties?
Calcio Jack - You're posh so you buying a house back in the day doesn't count. ;)
Seriously though, I agree with most of your points but I still think this country is a million times better than it was (and I'm not claiming the current government are solely responsible) but I fail to see how Enda Kenny and FG will change any of the issues you've raised.
Getting the PDs out and keeping FG out is what matters to me personally. And I'll be voting accordingly.
Slightly off-topic - Calcio Jack, did you see the Greens response re. Tallaght?
KOH
You're not voting Fianna Fail? then what the hell where we arguing about for two hours last night! :pQuote:
Originally Posted by GavinZac
No. Into your 20s maybe. The reason prices are so high is that the construction industry, from the mick wallace types to the guy digging a hole, wanted to screw the customer out of as much money as possible. Now people are linking the slowdown in housing prices rising to some turn around in our economy - could it not be a combination of people getting a little more sense as to what they can afford, and competition beginning to reduce prices be it between the large construction firms as we're building houses faster than anyone in the world, or be it by migrant workers willing to work harder for the same or less money than the irish construction workers.Quote:
Originally Posted by BohsPartisan
Did dodge say something about me being on a wind-up? :p no, im not voting for fianna fail as i stated pretty early in the thread. however, since the majority of the opposition is absolutely rubbish, a (kicked up the arse) Bertie government is ok with me for another few years.Quote:
Originally Posted by jebus
Do you really think that Fianna Fail will let their castle built on quick sand sink so fast if they get re-elected? If they do so I fully expect FF to start scaremongering us into even more consumerism to boost the economy into another false dawn, whilst playing down the fact that this economy will go bust as soon as the international companies deals start running out around the country and they take their $s to India, Pakistan etc. for even greater perks than we can ever offer over here. If Fianna Fail get re-elected and even last just one more term, they can then hand it over to Fine Gael to take the rap for all of FF's mishandling of this countryQuote:
Originally Posted by GavinZac
This is what Dodge said:Quote:
Originally Posted by GavinZac
And here we are a few pages later........ ;) :rolleyes:Quote:
How long before Gavin tries to say he was on a wind up? Oh dear oh dear oh dear
The plan all along was to use the fact that we had a cheaply available workforce to stimulate the economy, and then use this influx of cash to educate the younger people coming into the work force so as to add a better skill-value to the average employee and as such attract the Googles and the EMC's rather than factory multinationals. It seems to be going pretty well. Practically everyone now has a leaving cert leaving school, and practically everyone has the opportunity to do a degree. "Knowledge economy" is the buzzword, I believe.Quote:
Originally Posted by jebus
What did Mick do to get dragged into this? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by GavinZac
Anyway interesting thread all around. I decided to vote Labour this time around. This will be my first time voting in Dublin. Last time in Wexford I voted for Liam Towmey (then independent now Fine Gael) followed by Brendan Howlin (Labour) and I think probably Tony Dempsey (Fianna Fail).
Like many others I won't vote Sinn Fein or PD. I also have issues with Fine Gael and can only see them in power bringing the entire economy tumbling down. Like most I'd also agree that much of Fianna Fail's reign has been flawed and corrupt so where do we go from here?
Honestly I think Labour/Fianna Fail is about as good as it's likely to get. It's regrettable that the opposition in this country is so non-descript, but, I think if Fine Gael got into power they would last 2 years max and would be so damaged by the outcome that no viable alternative government will exist for the next twenty years.
I was joking, if i was really on a wind up i'd have used far more crime-based analogies :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Lim till i die
The plan all along... don't kid yourself, FF never wrote down any such grand plan. Re the price of houses, yes I do blame FF and indeed the other mainstream parties.... the Kenny report which you appear to be ignoring came forward with the idea of capping devlopment land prices...if that had been introduced in the 70's then the current problem would of been seriousely mitigated, as it would if as I suggested there was a increase in the tax take for owners of 2nd houses.Quote:
Originally Posted by GavinZac
From my memory of living through the 70's/80's what I seem to remember is a corrupt FF govt that was happy enough to tax paye workers at 58p ( I paid that rate when I was 23 and not earning much) whilst facilitating there "friends" in the building industry and others to stash their money away in overseas acounts by turning a blind eye to such behaviour.
FAO WAR, I'm not naieve to think that a coalition of FG/Lab etc would cure all the ills of the FF/PD past , I was just explaining why based on historical performance I wouldn't vote for them...
I dunno, a lot of your stuff on Limerick for someone who (alledgedly) visits was borderline ridiculous :pQuote:
Originally Posted by GavinZac
Btw, my humblest apologies if you are infact blind
So basically, your voting in this election will be based on speculative hindsight on a borderline communist anti-competition law that would have been thrown out by europe, and corruption the 70s?Quote:
FAO WAR, I'm not naieve to think that a coalition of FG/Lab etc would cure all the ills of the FF/PD past , I was just explaining why based on historical performance I wouldn't vote for them...
No I'm basing my vote on a historical performance that continues right up to yesterday when Bertie's response to been asked about the Stg£30k that "Ms Larkin" received to do up the house they were renting , stated/muttered "...that was a stamp duty matter.." as I said earlier the man operate his finances in what is a gubu manner for most of us , although to FF supporters no doubt in a normal manner, sure hasn't Bertie the benefit of the advice of Des Peelo the late CJH's accountant...now that's what I call pedigree !!Quote:
Originally Posted by GavinZac
In relation to your assertion that the implementation of the Kenny report would of been thrown out by Europe...doubt it since such laws have already been in force in a good number of EU member states for a number of years. Indeed some might also argue that because of the special position of property in our own Constitution that a cap on land prices could face a Constitutional challenge.... it might fail but IMO on the basis that the Supreme Court has a very long history of ruling in favour of the overall common good rather than the rights of individuals then I'd day it would be upheld.
ps...when did Communists embrace the idea of ownership of personal private property... oh I give up.
The Celtic Tiger didn't get where it is today with people following such an anti me fein approach such as you suggest :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Calcio Jack
Your lack of self interest and prioritisation of the common good have no place in the FF/PD view of modern Ireland.
As you say, its easier to have principles when you own your own home and lead a comfortable life, but its refreshing to see someone push against the tide, when most of your peer group have probably spent the last 10 years accumulating property like it is going out of fashion (this is why I personally am awaiting a property crash with a huge amount of schadenfraude in reserve).
Like many on this thread, after all the negatives everyone has mentioned in assciation with the current Govt, I'm still staggered that even within the foot.ie population they appear to poll so well.
Thats democracy I suppose, but in that case, people deserve what they get.
Further re Bertie and the "new" E30k, I love the way he has a face on him like a dog eating sh1t out of a bed of nettles when anyone has the temerity to ask him about it.
Whilst it is GUBU to a lot of the country, he and his cronies are clearly so detached from the reality of what transparent, ethical and conflict-free behavioural norms are that they see it as a personal affront that people even have the temerity to ask questions about issues such as this.
The whole Wall deal stinks to high heavens and I suspect their is a lot more to come out.
He had a good teacher on that front. Good at thieving, obviously.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
As you say, its easier to have principles when you own your own home and lead a comfortable life, but its refreshing to see someone push against the tide, when most of your peer group have probably spent the last 10 years accumulating property like it is going out of fashion (this is why I personally am awaiting a property crash with a huge amount of schadenfraude in reserve).
You're right about them accumulating property.... actually know one guy who owns 30 houses in the Dublin area and rents them out... and he's a Guard.
Still they'll do ok if there is a crash unless they only very recently got into the market. I'd be more worried if there is a crash as it will hit people on the margins.. ie a crash would mean the economy statrs to effect and you get a domino effect on jobs in the service industries and a fall off in tax revenues with the usual knock that services for the old/the sick and the marginalised get it in the neck.
The more I think about this I keep coming back to wondering why is that the u/30's aren't out in the streets protesting... my own personal view is that they've been sold a pup in that they seem to have more disposable income than any previous generation, so can own cars , have two holidays at least everry year, plenty of nights out etc (I know I'm somewhat generalising).The only thing they can't afford is a home and they seem to of bought into and accepted that house prices are just a unfortunate side effect of the Celtic Tiger when in fact they are artificially high because the FF/PDs have bent over and allowed property speculators set the agenda.
The worst trend resulting from all of this is the fact that many of my peers children are now finishing college and emigrating because they see no point in staying here because of property prices...which is awful .I saw 5 brothers and many friends forced to leave in the 70/80's and now it seems something similar is beginning to happen.
Actually I never got an answer to this question off the Fianna Failers on this one, due to the GavinZac debate last night. Are people who vote for Fianna Fail pretending this isn't happening? Or do you not care that our Taoiseach has his hand in many, many jars? Does it even give you any shred of doubt that you might not vote FF in 3 weeks time?Quote:
Originally Posted by jebus
Free 3rd level education is a funny one - get paid to sit around messing & drinking for 3-4 years. There should be interest free loans like many other countries which graduates start to repay when they start earning past a certain level of income.
3rd level education so mean higher than average salary so graduates should have the means to pay back the loans. Even when you pay for 3rd level education its still heavily subsidised by the State so should not be wasted on people that drop out or those that fail to use their degree by working in the local chipper.
Starting to get the election literature in the door not & slogan is agreed with was something like "we support the right of individuals to earn money but also that higher earning individuals should contribute back in taxes".
Its easy to suggest the average person does not earn 44k but that also people of varying experience, skills & work rate. I disagree with aspects about the current government but its a lie to suggest lower paid people have not benefited from the "Celtic Tiger". We have more or less full employment & one of the highest if not the highest minimum wages in Europe.
I don't vote FF for other reasons but I don't find these revelations all that offputting. At the same time as all this was going on, Bertie was wearing the same suit into work for about ten years with a shoddy anorack over it. Some people call this a cerefully crafted 'man of the people' image but I just don't think Bertie is (or was) on the make.Quote:
Originally Posted by jebus
On top of this, prevoius allegations against him were proven false and the current ones seem to consist of a lot of smoke with no apparant fire.
IMO Bertie has taken "loans" & "donations" for personal means when he was "a bit short". I am sure just like all politicians he saw nothing wrong then & sees nothing wrong now. I am also sure he has probably done favours to people like putting them on State Bodies & such but thats par for the course in politics & again he would see nothing wrong with appointing bale people who happened to be his friends. I doubt he is corrupt but still he has broken moral if not legal laws.
Pete, its all about establishing norms. What you appear to have stated is completely self-perpetuating. Its immaterial whether other politicians have done the same and its equally immaterial what Bertie's personal view is on the legality or morality of his actions!Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
If you asked bodies like Transparency International and other such monitors they would point to plenty of countries where the kind of cronyism and backscratching that is common practice here doesn't happen. Many of them may also be less developed than Ireland!
No offence, but its people like you, who shrug their shoulders and think its no big deal, that ensure it keeps happening.
I think you took me up incorrectly as I wasn't saying its ok. I was offering an opinion on how Bertie sees it. I believe even if it was proven conclusively that he took kickbacks loads of Irish people would say he deserved it while at the same time bemoan the corrupt politicians.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
I don't know if this was posted anywhere else. How the Washington Times reported the election date. :eek: LOL
Jesus Enda's barking up the wrong tree if he thinks FG will beat FF hands down in this election, as part of a 3 party coalition maybe, but getting more seats than FF, not too sure about thatQuote:
Originally Posted by pete
As for that clown Adams saying the Sinn Fein will be sitting in two governments by the end of the month :D :D
I was trying to think what would be the best way to describe your performance in this thread so far Gavin, and all I could think of is in this linkQuote:
Originally Posted by GavinZac
http://gavinzac.justgotowned.com/
although be warned, you need to have sound for the full effect :D :D
:confused: you rambled on for 3 pages about nothing in particular becayse of some grievance with a figure sourced from the IMF and independently from the CIA, before Calcio Jack came on and made some actual decent points to save what had become an embarrassing validation of "the left"'s perceived obsession with classes and elitism.Quote:
Originally Posted by jebus
You had the temerity to refer to me as an upper middle class idiot on the basis that you had little or no understanding of what purchasing power parity measures or indicates and went on some rambling discourse about your mate's salaries. Added to your sidekick's demands to be paid to attend a third level course, you had very nearly pushed me towards being a card carrying right wing marketeer before Calcio Jack helpfully reminded me of some of the reasons I'll be voting Socialist Party in the coming weeks.
We say "pwnd" on the internet.
Don't make me post that link again :pQuote:
Originally Posted by GavinZac
FF expected to announce a complete u-turn on the stamp duty issue today .Does this mean that if Bertie's asked again about the Stg£30k that "Ms Larkin" received in 1994 from Mr Wall of Manchester he'll reply "... that's not a stamp duty matter..." you gotta hand it to FF they oviously believe that they can fool enough people by making promises based on the latest "flavour of the month".... scary thing as I alluded to before they maybe right ie a large amount of the elctorate are selfish enough to be fooled by that type of auction politics, just like there parents were in 1977 by the Jack Lynch lead FF that promised to abiolish rates on private houses and car tax and they had a landslide victory which led to chaos a few years later under CJH and his cronies.....
:confused: I have to quote myself hereQuote:
Originally Posted by Bald Student
...are you seriously saying there is nothing suspicious ...even curious, in there?Quote:
....the type of nod'n'wink chancer who'll look the Irish people in the eye and tell them he managed to spend somewhere between fifty and eighty thousand punts on a "refurbishing"...
-of a three or four year old house...
-that he didn't own...
-in the year 1994...
-while he was supposedly broke.
But I suppose that's his own business
I ask because if the attitude yourself and Pete are displaying is typical of the average casual Fianna Fail or even floating voter ...then we deserve no better than what we're served up by these people.