McMullan, Duffy and Kelly are wingers.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
Kavanagh is a centre mid or a 10.
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McMullan, Duffy and Kelly are wingers.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
Kavanagh is a centre mid or a 10.
That's a really bad excuse. You can win leagues and blood young players. Man United did it for years under Ferguson. Liverpool and City are doing it now. Barcelona basically dominated Spain by doing it correctly (having Messi certainly helped of course). I'd wager it's probably a slightly easier situation for a young player to go into than a club that's languishing at the foot of the table. You go into a dressing room where everyone knows their role, knows what is expected of them and can give you guidance in what you need to do and what level you need to be at to win. You can make frequent cameo appearances in the beginning rather than being thrust into the limelight and basically forced to sink or swim.Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheotherhand
There does need to be an u21 league to help bridge the gap. But league expectations are not an excuse to not play young players
I think Clarke & Farrugia would walk into Team of the Season but both were injured for a very long time. Lopes was below his best this year. Grace was incredibly reliable. Cleary was generally good but showed poor judgment and temprament at times. Mannus missed about 15 games. None of our centre mids was particularly outstanding, solid yes, but it took me ten games to wonder if Poom had anything about him at all. Burke might have been close. No other forward played consistently, and when he did play Kenny was poor a lot of the time. Towell had me scratching my head at times. Sometimes I think we're better off having him just so somebody else doesn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheotherhand
Yeah, can understand why Rovers fans would be bemused by the lack of players in the TOTS, but I feel like the strength of their squad was the story of the season rather than stand-out individuals, whereas the opposite is the case for most other sides in the league. Grace was great and Gaffney for me is the best in the league, but a lot of the other top players either lacked minutes relative to others (Farrugia for instance played about 10 games worth of minutes fewer than Ben Doherty and Sam Curtis. Byrne injured, Burke limited minutes etc), or those that played the majority of minutes are non-sexy names like O'Neill that do a great, functional job but don't necessarily get the big moments other midfielders have that got picked. Ultimately it doesn't really matter, I think the majority of clubs in the league probably have had fans moaning about omissions so there's no real winning here.
Funnily enough Pats fan Dodge get's it right IMO - Gaffney far and away best player in the League again, GON the stand out holding midfielder year after year and Lee Grace the best of our 3 excellent centre-halves.
https://www.balls.ie/football/dodges...-awards-578910
The biggest clubs in the world with established academies that have attracted the best talent available can do it? Grand so. How many academy players are starting for Man City by the way? I can only think of Foden off hand. Are there others? They've gone out and bought the best players in the world and broken the rules to do it. Liverpool maybe have more but....they aren't winning the league are they?Quote:
Originally Posted by Another Bohemia
Who of the Pats players who have played regularly would have displaced any of our strongest 11 for you? Not a single one for me and they are the best in the league imop. Murphy, Leavy and Curtis would make the squad and they'd be getting cameos just like Nugent, Razi, Noonan and Cruise got this season. But we would not have won the league with them playing every week. Curtis is the shining light but he isn't better than Dan Cleary or Neil Farrugia at either position. He'd be a backup like Finn and I'm not sure I'd play him over Finn either tbh. Now if Pats can hold on to Murphy and Leavy and add a few more they may win a league if/when we fade. But I'd wager that team is broken up by player sales too soon for it.
Of course I do like your idea of academy players playing more. It's exciting. There will be seasons when academy players are good enough to play more and we can still win the league hopefully but it wasn't this season. Maybe next. I'd play Razi over the likes of Power. But I'd expect Razi to be snapped up before he gets a chance to win a league again.
Yeah as I said I'm not bothered by it. All the picks make sense. How could you leave out the lio s of Keating and Afolabi really? Stellar seasons at their clubs. It's just funny they blanked the four in a row champs so much and even got the one pick wrong! Grace was the best defender in the league this season. Pico wasn't at his best after each international break but other than that he was brilliant. Mad that we have such a weak league but he's playing in the AFCON and can't even make the best 11 here.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Poom is a funny one. Took me a while as well but I think that was just him adjusting to the speed of the press. He got caught out a few times. He mentioned that in a recent interview. He was excellent after the first series of games.
So Farrugia had significant injury layoff or layoffs this year and Rovers wouldn't have given CurtisQuote:
Originally Posted by ontheotherhand
a run in the team? Towell has significant game time and other Rovers fans seem to think that he is signed so no one else has him so the likes of Murphy from Pat's or Clarke from Bohs (who is a former Rovers academy player) wouldn't be better options than a player who is signed so other teams don't have him? Right.
Yes the club's I mentioned have world class academies but Rovers have the best academy facilities in the league. Some of the best academy coaches and a head coach who at least to some degree was involved in how the academy functions even if it was at the beginning of his tenure. This should all lead to at least some more cohesion between the academy and first team and probably more academy products having very regular starts for the first team.
Some of our best academy products are playing in the Championship rather than the LOI - Bazunu, Emakhu, Armstrong - that's a sign of success. Those 3 all played for the first team but, as outlined above, it's very difficult to break into a league-winning side from the academy. Sam Curtis even had to leave Rovers for game time.
With the lack of a third tier/B League/U21 League, the Rovers B team playing in the First Division was the ideal solution but of course was shot down by other clubs. I suspect the likes of Pats and Bohs will change their tune on that sooner rather than later. We badly need a way to bridge between U19 and first team for academy players.
Pats & I believe Dundalk backed the idea at the time and expressed interest with the FAI to putting their own B teams into the First Division. Other clubs, mostly the FD clubs, were the ones unhappy with it. I can see the point of view of both sides of the debate on it, but one thing is for sure, there definitely needs to be a better bridge between 19s and Premier Division. As good as Pats have been at integrating the best young players in the academy into the first team, they’ve lost Brian Maher and Tommy Lonergan (got him back though as Bohs fans will tell you ;)) due to other players being ahead of them at the time and both being too good to remain playing at 19s level. If there was a better bridge you’d see clubs holding onto the players that fall into that bracketQuote:
Originally Posted by WeAreRovers
I know you're looking at it through green and white glasses but it's ludicrous to suggest you have four defenders better than Curtis. There aren't four defenders better than him in the whole league.Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheotherhand
And you're wrong also in your other post when you say he "had to leave Rovers for game time". He was 15 at the time. He moved because he and his advisors correctly reckoned we'd provide him with a better pathway.
That was me re Curtis and 'better pathway' is the modern way of saying 'game time' - point remains the same.
Re B teams in the First Division there was one Dublin PD club dead set against Rovers II in the FD. And it wasn't Pats.
You genuinely think Curtis is better than Cleary and Farrugia? Not for me. He's a very good prospect but he's not better than what we have starting in either position. He also wouldn't have played ahead of Finn when he was our starter and Curtis was younger. I think he made the right call going to Pats tbh.Quote:
Originally Posted by patsdad
He'd make the squad as I said but he wouldn't play which is the point of all of this. He's also an outlier given his maturity so not the best example to be used in any counter argument here.
What do you mean by a better pathway other than playing by the way? Surely that's the main thing? He made the right call imop. Hurts to see how good he's gotten but for the reasons above I think Pats was a better place for him.
I’d say Curtis is a better defender than Farrugia, but Farrugia is a better atttacker.Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheotherhand
Hard to compare them two because they play different positions imo.
Curtis’ best position is RB, but Rovers haven’t played a back 4 for ages. He can also do a job at CB but his best position in full back.
Farrugia on the other hand is a winger who’s been converted to a wing back. They’ve quite different skillsets.
That's fair enough. Pound for pound though, Farrugia is currently a better player in my opinion. Best in the league on his day. Curtis may end up better and seems more durable for sure! But Farrugia won their battles this season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Philosophizer
pace will be the problem going forward for curtis. think he has a high enough ceiling but his pace is what'll stop him reaching the top level imo. farriuga has loads of it but cant be relied on fitness wise.
Some amazing opinions on Curtis here and I have to ask how often the posters concerned have actually watched him. As someone who has seen every game he played this season I stand over my opinion on his quality. And he's far from short on pace.
I'd like to see Farrugia play centrally, a Thierry Henry type role. He has a great ability to always beat his first man and he has electric pace. Not wholly reliable in front of goal but I think he'd get easier chances running straight on goal rather than cutting in. I think starting from wide deep poisitions weakens his influence.
It's very hard to compare Curtis and Farrugia. Curtis is a right back who can play centre back. Farrugia is a wing back whose second position is a winger. Farrugia suits Rovers more with the current setup they have but as regards quality it's neck and neck and both are amongst the best in the league. Farrugia's injury record is his main drawback, he'd probably be abroad if it wasn't for that. Ideally we'd have both with Curtis as the full back and Farrugia as the winger.
A decent discussion anyway, both are good with the potential to get better.
Farrugia still needs to keep his head up when running at people (easier said than done!) and his final ball needs to improve greatly.
Curtis looks like one of those players who could potentially play anywhere on the pitch (e.g Bellingham) and do well. The skill level of the game here has increased imo,and I'd just hope that players of their ilk can find a place in Europe to really reach their potential ,and not get bogged down in the dirge that is sub EPL football
He played through the middle very effectively up in Derry in a game we went down to 10 men in. Possibly even 9 men. He was also tried as a striker briefly but that didn't seem to click.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
He's come on leaps and bounds defensively this season so I'd keep him at wingback. Would love to see the numbers of goals he was involved in this season. He didn't always get the assist but he helped create so many. If he learns how to bend it into the top corner after cutting in on to his left foot he could finish as top scorer. Fitness willing.
Sorry, missed this. Towell was signed because he was the leagues best player at one point. He was good this season. Even played well at wing back at one stage. Would I take Murphy over him? Maybe but there are a lot of "ifs" in that scenario. Towell is on a four year deal and better than any of the current academy players we have.Quote:
Originally Posted by Another Bohemia
You are right that there seems to be a lack of cohesion though. McDonnell wrote about some of that. Overall though the point is that Pats can bring young lads in a bit easier and so they have. I like what they've done to be fair but I don't know if we would have recovered from our early blip without the experience in the team. We did though and another title is in the bag. You might have stayed top if your young players had a bit more experience. Should have really.
Tom Grivosti’s contract extension at Pats now confirmed. Two serious injuries meant he barely played this season but his partnership with Joe Redmond in 2022 was excellent. I’d imagine that’ll be the first choice pairing.
Tom Grivosti has signed a new contract with Pats. Happy to keep him onboard despite being out with an ACL injury still, he’s a great professional and sound lad to have in the squad, but most importantly a very good centre half that was missed massively this season, only featuring in 8 games. Once he’s back fit he'll be a real addition to the team
Would you rate Curtis higher than Redmond? On current ability.Quote:
Originally Posted by patsdad
Dodge ex of this parish!Quote:
Originally Posted by WeAreRovers
In my opinion Curtis was the best defender in the league in 2023. Redmond is outstanding in his position.Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheotherhand
Based on our head to heads, Redmond is the only one I'd want to sign! He's quality. All about opinions and all that though.Quote:
Originally Posted by patsdad
Curtis is an excellent prospect and has more strings to his bow as a player already, but right now Redmond is the more important player in the sense that his absence hits the side harder. They play different positions though so again it's tough to compare. Just hope Sam choses his move wisely, has all the talent but getting that decision right is as important as anything.
Happy with Grivosti re-signing albeit a little surprised. Knew he was out of contract and it was an awful injury he had, which was the third long-term one of his career thus far, so wondered if the club would be hesitant to keep him on. Very good, underrated defender on his day though so fingers crossed he comes back the same player.
Have seen a mention here and there that Pats have been talking to Conor Keeley as well, though he had interest from abroad in the summer so I'd imagine he's not struggling for offers right now.
I've always felt Rovers with their 'best academy' should be based like a dutch model whether it is Ajax, Feyenoord or PSV where there is alway a pathway for their best young players to get game time & develop which they can sell on for a nice profit. There is no way in hell Bazunu would get close to the Rovers team now & the amount of time Razi got this season was shocking given his potential, the same for whatever happend with Ferezaj maybe other reasons there but Rovers played it poorly. These clubs are able to win leagues & promote youth, even a club like Dinamo Zagreb win the league ever year but have one of the most succesful academies in European football for developing talent
No no you don't understand. There are clubs around the world that manage to integrate their academy players into their squads while winning leagues but it's actually not possible and only teams like Pat's and Bohs with lower expectations can play academy players regularly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunny Kelly
Brandon Kavanagh to us confirmed. Happy with that signing.
You'd swear we had La Masia out in Roadstone the way some of you go on.
We will have more academy players in the squad over time.
Plenty have been sold for profit and are playing at a higher level and plenty are playing with other teams. That's pretty good going for how long it's been up and running.
Bazunu would clearly have played this season by the way Bunny. He'd arguably have dislodged Mannus a few seasons back if Man City hadn't bought him. These hypotheticals with players we don't have don't serve much purpose. Razi maybe should have played more given Jack Byrnes injury but there are others ahead of him. Noonan isn't quite ready yet. Cruise the same. They both looked great at the end of the season with the pressure off but struggled a bit earlier on.
Worrying about the champions age profile in the off season is a strange one to be honest.
The fact Noonan & Cruise got so little game time with Clarke & Farrugia injured for much of the season makes me doubt Bradley would have thrown a 16yr old keeper in no matter how talented. Roadstone may not La Masia but when you look at UCD & Cork this season you telling me there wasn't plenty of spots to get these younger players more involved? Nugent is the only 'younger' player that really got game time & he had a season out on loan & is physically strong before Bradley trusted him.
They did play against UCD and Cork. Probably would have played more if we weren't trying to dig ourselves out of that bad start.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunny Kelly
Yes Bazunu would have played. Bradley was the one who put him in at 16. Awful example to pick for your point to be honest. He's a better keeper than Mannus was last season so he obviously would have played. Noonan and the others we have now aren't at that level yet.
Bradley built a team to win leagues. We will see over the next few seasons how many academy players make it through as the team ages.
If I had a concern it would be Simon Power getting minutes over Razi and Noonan. That signing was a mistake but I understand why we did it. Frightening pace. Crocked though.
Dundalk fans were saying the same a few years ago in fairness...Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheotherhand
But, unlike Dundalk, we COULD play academy players if things go pear shaped with the first team. I don't think we'd be winning the league but at least you would all be happy. And that's all I want really.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Maybe there is a reason I highlighted Bazunu? To quote yourself, 'that is an awful example of someone not getting the point to be honest'. Bradley is acting different now than he did when he built the team, younger players are not getting the same opportunities & as a whole the team seems like it is stagnating, they were just blessed that this season the didn't have any decent competition domestically
Mark Doyle departing Pats for an opportunity abroad….
Bazunu would be good enough Bunny.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunny Kelly
I'd agree the team has stagnated a bit and if you want to say Razi and Cruise should have played more over the likes of Power and Kavanagh then I can see where you're coming from. But we are still talking about the four in a row champions. What we did worked.
The reshape will be interesting. We need at least two wingbacks. Nugent was tried there quite a bit and Cruise is the other option. Neither really grabbed it and Nugent for me is a central mid. Cruise looked tidy but maybe not ready to start. Razi looks ready for regular cameos but will he be around long enough? Not sure. Tricky to find players who are good enough play but not so good that they are gone and you're left with a hole to fill.