Republic of Ireland V France - Monday, 27th March 2023 - Euro 2024 Qualifier

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Originally Posted by Jd2793

if youve been paying attention youd know tchouameni doesnt start much. the other 2 changes were clearly tactical but again you seem knowledgable so im sure you can tell us why both of those changes were made.

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That's Tchouameni who has started in 17 out of his 23 caps for France? "doesnt start much". Thats as far as I read, was too busy laughing at that nonsense to read the rest.

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Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA

We lost last night. Our first home defeat in Euro qualifiers since 2010. It puts us in a difficult position to qualify from this group. It's a very strange time to try to claim vindication for sticking with Kenny after 3 years of awful results.

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It shoes how godawful Kenny has been when a loss is thrown up as vindication of him and his best game in charge of Ireland.

u ok hun?

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Originally Posted by weldoninhio

That's Tchouameni who has started in 17 out of his 23 caps for France? "doesnt start much". Thats as far as I read, was too busy laughing at that nonsense to read the rest.

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You should read it, and then answer the question, in the next 24 hours

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Originally Posted by weldoninhio

It shoes how godawful Kenny has been when a loss is thrown up as vindication of him and his best game in charge of Ireland.

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It does seem a bit odd. If you didn't know the score last night but just looked at the reaction of some supporters and the media, you'd assume we won the game or at least drew it. There was some encouragement but we shouldn't be celebrating defeat, no matter who we played. We have a manager who's been trying to learn on the job, not a great position to be in but we all hope he has learned enough by now. Losing at home in the first game of a qualifying group and sitting bottom definitely doesn't prove anything yet but we still have 7 more games for him to do so.

It’s not like we played San Marino last night. Weird that peeps can’t understand that.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

That's an angled photo in fairness. A more central angle shows it was maybe a yard or more inside the post -

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/images/ic/400xn/p0fcbn9k.jpg

I don't think that takes away from either the quality of the header or the save. But it wasn't quite top corner.

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Yes as I said its not top corner. My friends were right behind the area it came into and confirmed it as well - I'd take that before any photo anyway. Still a great save of course.

I cannot fathom the negative begrudgery after that performance. That's all it is too, begrudgery, from a small number of wums. What would have been the reaction had Maignon not pulled off a couple of world class saves at the end? "We should have won by more"?

Very proud to have been there last night to witness a coming of age performance for this team. There's been false dawns previously, but that really did feel like the start of something great last night.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

His right foot is 60% or more to the right along the goal line and he’s at full stretch. It might not have been in the absolute corner but had it gone in you’d say he scored into the top corner. Constant nitpicking here about everything is driving me nuts.

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It's not nitpicking; it's just correcting tets' image which was clearly angled. The video (1:51 here) shows what I've said also. I don't know why people are so insecure in fairly minor views that any bit of disagreement is dismissed as nitpicking (or begrudgery) tbh. Heaven forbid we have a bit of fun debate without being dismissed like that.

Sounds like a few posters on this board had a similar reaction to the french commentator when their keeper made that save. Imagine as a supporter getting yourself to a place where you hope ireland dont get a result.

Lads, we lost the match. I'm never happy when Ireland lose, I'm sure most others aren't either. France were not at their best last night. It was a real opportunity to get a draw at least and put us in a strong position in the group. Just because it wasn't a team like Luxembourg defeating us this time doesn't mean that this is the start of something great. People have different opinions and some prefer to celebrate actual victories and results. It was obviously an improvement on most of the past 3 years but that's not saying much. I can only talk for myself but I'm only interested in qualifying for major tournaments. We're in a weaker position now than before yesterday's match. That's the bottom line.

I’m not insecure about anything. I just think it’s pointless arguing whether it’s too corner or near the top corner. We all saw what happened. It was a very good header and a great save. Any other sane forum would just accept that, but here the professional miserabilists have taken over as usual. Not just on this issue but the whole game.

And as for the “you’d swear we won” claim. Beyond pathetic.

The way we sat off them made it difficult for them to play through the middle, and they had to swing in a lot of crosses. I guess they expected that, seeing as they had Giroud on from the start, but we defended better than they expected I'd say.

I do think they played within themselves at times, and were just a bit ponderous and sloppy at times as well, expecting a goal would eventually arrive. Had the goal not been gifted to them, I think they'd have gone through the gears until they got one.

Relying on their keeper to pull off a world-class save is not what they expected, it wasn't a case of them comfortably seeing out the game at the end. They really were rattled in the closing minutes and we came much closer to a goal than they'd have expected.

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Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954

Very proud to have been there last night to witness a coming of age performance for this team. There's been false dawns previously, but that really did feel like the start of something great last night.

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I told my mates before the game that I felt a coming of age performance was due soon. I think they were close to delivering it. I’m not ashamed to say I saw positives in defeat but defeat it was, and that hurts as it always does. Of course we’ll only know in the next 8 months whether this group actually do come of age, but I think you have to say that most of the younger lads put in high quality individual performances. They deserve credit for that.

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Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA

I think with all the talk of playing a different style, it's worth noting that our biggest threat against France came from set pieces. Some Kenny fans like to dismiss it as a dinosaur tactic but is it worth having Duffy on the bench for the last 10 minutes? It was made for him last night.

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Don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone decry the scoring of goals from set pieces. As for having Duffy on the bench (I thought he was injured anyway ?) I don’t think he could have done more than Nathan Collins did with his header. We also had Egan on the pitch, who has scored from corners.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I’m not insecure about anything. I just think it’s pointless arguing whether it’s too corner or near the top corner. We all saw what happened. It was a very good header and a great save. Any other sane forum would just accept that, but here the professional miserabilists have taken over as usual. Not just on this issue but the whole game.

And as for the “you’d swear we won” claim. Beyond pathetic.

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I think being called begrudgers and being told that we are actually up for the other team is beyond pathetic. And just because some aren't fawning over this defeat.

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Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA

I think being called begrudgers and being told that we are actually up for the other team is beyond pathetic..

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So take it up with those who accused you of being up for the other team then.

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Originally Posted by TonyD

Don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone decry the scoring of goals from set pieces. As for having Duffy on the bench (I thought he was injured anyway ?) I don’t think he could have done more than Nathan Collins did with his header. We also had Egan on the pitch, who has scored from corners.

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Go back to lumping it on top of Duffy's head is the cry from some of those who think hoofball is the only alternative to Kenny.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

So take it up with those who accused you of being up for the other team then.

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Really not worth it but was interesting that you only signalled out some opinions for being pathetic and not others.

Boomers, was last night's performance that of a competently-managed and coached team? If not, why not exactly?

Were we motivated and spirited? Was there a sense of purpose and cohesion? Did we suffer from a lack of attacking ambition or defensive organisation? Were there any contentious selections or substitutions that negatively impacted the team? Was there anything, specifically, that a 'competent manager' would have done differently?

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Ya Evan pointed to him, to play it across the box into the middle, Ogbene took the easy option. He should have gone another couple of yards using his pace to make that ball in front of Ferguson easier to make its target(between penalty spot and 6 yard box). Ferguson had about 2-3 metres on anyone and a big open space to run into. It was very disappointing. I guess that Ogbene isnt quite at that level. If that was France it was a goal, into Giroud. Ferguson needs good supply like Giroud does for France to be effective. That was fairly apparent last night, thats where his strength is and his running showed it throughout last night.

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That's not what I meant at all. He showed have played the ball in front of Ferguson earlier than he crossed it. that would have forced the pavard to come across sooner, leaving space for a roll across to Knight, or a pull back for Molumby, or perhaps a shot himself.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I told my mates before the game that I felt a coming of age performance was due soon. I think they were close to delivering it. I’m not ashamed to say I saw positives in defeat but defeat it was, and that hurts as it always does. Of course we’ll only know in the next 8 months whether this group actually do come of age, but I think you have to say that most of the younger lads put in high quality individual performances. They deserve credit for that.

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Agree - everyone involved last night deserves credit. A proper gameplan and judicious use of the bench, that the subs could have been a little earlier is a relatively minor quibble.

But as you imply, a loss in Greece and it feels like we are almost back to square one (again).

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Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA

I think being called begrudgers and being told that we are actually up for the other team is beyond pathetic. And just because some aren't fawning over this defeat.

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And again with the hyperbolic language. “Fawning over defeat”. What most people are acknowledging is that we put in a very good performance against the best team in Europe. Saying that they were “in second gear” “there for the taking” etc is nonsense.

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Originally Posted by Supreme feet

Boomers, was last night's performance that of a competently-managed and coached team? If not, why not exactly?

Were we motivated and spirited? Was there a sense of purpose and cohesion? Did we suffer from a lack of attacking ambition or defensive organisation? Were there any contentious selections or substitutions that negatively impacted the team? Was there anything, specifically, that a 'competent manager' would have done differently?

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I, too, would like answers to these questions. Within 24 hours.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Top corner

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Castore are really pulling out the stops with the arrow pointing to goal for us!

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Originally Posted by Supreme feet

Boomers, was last night's performance that of a competently-managed and coached team? If not, why not exactly?

Were we motivated and spirited? Was there a sense of purpose and cohesion? Did we suffer from a lack of attacking ambition or defensive organisation? Were there any contentious selections or substitutions that negatively impacted the team? Was there anything, specifically, that a 'competent manager' would have done differently?

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This is the problem. It's all about Kenny. The performance last night was a backs to the wall defensive effort with some counter attack options and finally some pressure at the end through set pieces. We've seen this numerous times before through different managers. It wasn't anything special Kenny invented. The players deserve enormous credit for putting everything on the line, a number of them ran themselves into the ground. They are much better than their manager would have us believe. They are who's important and who the attention should be on. They've been let down the last few years and it's hard to break out of a losing culture.

When some supporters stop placing a managers survival as a priority instead of our players development, then there can be proper debate on where we're going. At the moment any criticism of defeats is seen as some treacherous action by some. Even some stating that anyone dares criticise must be up for the other team. It's not about the defeat was bad news for Ireland, it's about only losing 1-0 was a good result for Kenny. This obsession has to end, it has been very damaging for us.

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Originally Posted by TonyD

And again with the hyperbolic language. “Fawning over defeat”. What most people are acknowledging is that we put in a very good performance against the best team in Europe. Saying that they were “in second gear” “there for the taking” etc is nonsense.

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That's what's happening. I've stated it was a very good performance and our best since Denmark but France weren't at their best. Nothing wrong with that.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

I, too, would like answers to these questions. Within 24 hours.

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Done.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I’m not insecure about anything. I just think it’s pointless arguing whether it’s too corner or near the top corner. We all saw what happened. It was a very good header and a great save. Any other sane forum would just accept that, but here the professional miserabilists have taken over as usual.

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It's an internet forum Stutts. We discuss things. You can either join in the discussion, or not if you want (if you think a discussion is pointless, for example, which is fine). Everyone involved was in agreement it was a very good header and a great save, so the chat was a minor point about where the header was going exactly. Then you chose to come barging in insulting people. That's daft.

Also, who said "You'd swear we won"?

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Originally Posted by Kingdom

That's not what I meant at all. He showed have played the ball in front of Ferguson earlier than he crossed it. that would have forced the pavard to come across sooner, leaving space for a roll across to Knight, or a pull back for Molumby, or perhaps a shot himself.

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This moment is still haunting me. Ogbene had a great game which had a lot to do with our tactics playing to his strengths but a different player picking up that ball probably sees the move e.g. Smallbone. It just required a weighted pass around the defender as Ferguson had split them beautifully and the distance to the goal was perfect for him to run onto. It was probably our best chance from open play. Sounds weird to say that as we didn't actually create the chance but it was there for us and we missed it.

Just highlights that we have players who can do some things well but not all things well. I'm not sure we will see the best of Ferguson in these types of games because he won't get the service he needs. He might be the key to us breaking down weaker sides though where we can afford to play more creative players around him. He did have one great moment in the first half where he held off 2/3 players long enough to lay the ball off to Knight who was breaking through. Otherwise I can't really remember him being involved in the play much? He did work his socks off without the ball but it's maybe the one tactical thing that was missing. We played more to Ogbene's strengths than to Evan's. Against Greece we will need a different plan obviously and Evan will hopefully be central to it. Johnston might be the one to play with him. He's already gone from impact sub to possible starter in my eyes.....what a difference a few days can make in football...

Sat down with a nice pint last night and was thinking about the fine margins in that game. Their goal was a long ranger that went around the back of Egan (I think?) which unsighted Gav a bit. I think he might have saved it if he hadn't seen it late. He had a good game. We had our own shot from distance at the other end from Knight which looked on target but skimmed off Upemecano's back and went out for a corner. Not saying it would have gone in but he struck it sweetly. Then if Collins gets the ball 3 more inches to the left....

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Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA

This is the problem. It's all about Kenny. The performance last night was a backs to the wall defensive effort with some counter attack options and finally some pressure at the end through set pieces. We've seen this numerous times before through different managers. It wasn't anything special Kenny invented. The players deserve enormous credit for putting everything on the line, a number of them ran themselves into the ground. They are much better than their manager would have us believe. They are who's important and who the attention should be on. They've been let down the last few years and it's hard to break out of a losing culture.

When some supporters stop placing a managers survival as a priority instead of our players development, then there can be proper debate on where we're going. At the moment any criticism of defeats is seen as some treacherous action by some. Even some stating that anyone dares criticise must be up for the other team. It's not about the defeat was bad news for Ireland, it's about only losing 1-0 was a good result for Kenny. This obsession has to end, it has been very damaging for us.

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That’s kind of funny, given your own obsession with sacking the manager, and how everything is an opportunity to have a dig. Pots and kettles.

Boomers, you have almost single-handedly made this forum all about Kenny. That is the genesis of this obsession, if you ask me. When posters try to bring other factors into the discussion, they get shot down, there's no middle ground, no give and take at all.

It has festered and created a fierce amount of hostility in a forum that used to be a welcome distraction from life and a chance to have debates that were passionate but never so polarized and polarizing. Many significant debates and differences on teams, tactics etc. were had on here over the years I've been hanging around but it never felt the way it does now. I think Razor's last post was about taking a break from this place - I hope he doesn't - but I get where he's coming from. It just isn't enjoyable any more.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Also, who said "You'd swear we won"?

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Someone prone to exaggeration

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Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA

If you didn't know the score last night but just looked at the reaction of some supporters and the media, you'd assume we won the game or at least drew it

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

It's an internet forum Stutts. We discuss things. You can either join in the discussion, or not if you want (if you think a discussion is pointless, for example, which is fine). Everyone involved was in agreement it was a very good header and a great save, so the chat was a minor point about where the header was going exactly. Then you chose to come barging in insulting people. That's daft.

Also, who said "You'd swear we won"?

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Ya this is getting tiresome now. It feels like a select few dissenting against anything believing negative or having negative connotations to Kenny. We can all make valid points without it being toys out of the pram stuff. At the end of the day ( I hope) we all want the best Ireland

I really can't remember when the forum has been so active which can only be a good thing but everyone's point is valid regardless of how far the other side of the scale it is to your own

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Originally Posted by Kingdom

That's not what I meant at all. He showed have played the ball in front of Ferguson earlier than he crossed it. that would have forced the pavard to come across sooner, leaving space for a roll across to Knight, or a pull back for Molumby, or perhaps a shot himself.

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I think I see what you're doing here . He slowed down that's the biggest problem I remember at the time I'd need to watch it again but it felt he slowed his run , gave that bit of time for France to better position themselves . He doesn't have the ability to play that ball in around from what I've seen , so the simplest and highest probability of execution was to take the extra couple of yards at full pace and go straight across goal between peno and six yard box. Instead he knew he couldn't play the other pass, somewhat unsure slowed down ended up about edger of box and plays a ball back to knight which was the worst pass of an original 4-5 things he could have done

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Everyone involved was in agreement it was a very good header

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That’s actually not true. Not directed at you tbf.

Scotland 2-0 Spain . Nothing like a dose of reality to bring you back down to earth.

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Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA

The players deserve enormous credit for putting everything on the line, a number of them ran themselves into the ground. They are much better than their manager would have us believe.

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You’ve said this a couple of times now. It’s been a huge criticism of previous coaches that they’ve claimed our players were incapable of playing a modern style of football and completing simple passes to each other.

I don’t think Kenny has ever has a single negative thing to say about his players? He talks them up constantly. If anything it’s been to his detriment that he talked up the younger players he was bringing through to such an extent that it made it harder for himself when the performances didn’t follow!

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Originally Posted by passinginterest

You’ve said this a couple of times now. It’s been a huge criticism of previous coaches that they’ve claimed our players were incapable of playing a modern style of football and completing simple passes to each other.

I don’t think Kenny has ever has a single negative thing to say about his players? He talks them up constantly. If anything it’s been to his detriment that he talked up the younger players he was bringing through to such an extent that it made it harder for himself when the performances didn’t follow!

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I agree. If I was to summarise Kenny’s view of our players versus previous managers’ it’d be that we should believe in our players more

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Originally Posted by TonyD

That’s kind of funny, given your own obsession with sacking the manager, and how everything is an opportunity to have a dig. Pots and kettles.

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That's true but my reasoning is sound and logical. :D I just think that we're underestimating ourselves. Look at Scotland tonight, are we much worse than them? They have something to actually celebrate.