Tom Cannon F Sheffield Utd b.2002

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Originally Posted by JR89

If Cannon does switch at least he's doing it now before the campaign kicks off.

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Well he needs to drop out before the campaign kicks off, because if he plays a minute for us in the qualifiers then he can't play for England Under 21s. And realistically he'll have a fair wait for an English senior call, if one ever comes his way. So the timing is not a coincidence - he needs to be out of the Irish system before the campaign starts to allow him to play for England Under 21s - if we had had a qualifier in March rather than a friendly he'd have been tied for this campaign and I doubt the English FA would have bothered going after him.

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Originally Posted by elatedscum

The story was that Hodgson had promised him a call up straight to the senior side (after the FA Cup performance against Liverpool) - but once he’d made the switch Roy reneged on that promise.

Southgate was also kinda **** with Grealish - saying he wouldn’t consider players playing in the championship, then calling up Phillips before he’d played in the premier league to stop him declaring for Ireland

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I'd never heard before that Phillips was considering declaring for us!

I think he was using us as a tactic to get an England cap to be honest. I don't think it was ever 100% confirmed that he was actually eligible for us.

The same nonsense James Maddison was at.

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Originally Posted by Eirambler

I think he was using us as a tactic to get an England cap to be honest. I don't think it was ever 100% confirmed that he was actually eligible for us.

The same nonsense James Maddison was at.

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Pretty sure his grandparents on his mother’s side are Irish (his mother confirmed on Twitter) and he was eligible for Jamaica via a grandparent on his father’s side.

He was 24 and had never played for England at any youth level, so there was no issue there…

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Originally Posted by JR89

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It would be good if we could close the posts on this now to save the abuse for him. Best of luck to him no point staying if your heart isn't in it

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Originally Posted by liamoo11

It would be good if we could close the posts on this now to save the abuse for him. Best of luck to him no point staying if your heart isn't in it

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This is only getting going liamoo. Senior cap for us in September or 21s with England is where its headed in all likelihood, he only needs to miss a few August sitters to start feeling Irish again after all.

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Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke

This is only getting going liamoo. Senior cap for us in September or 21s with England is where its headed in all likelihood, he only needs to miss a few August sitters to start feeling Irish again after all.

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This is a leadership versus management moment for Kenny I think. If he wants to stay with us he goes back to the 21s in September regardless of how well he is doing at his club to earn the right to get senior caps

Not surprised. No abuse incoming at all I’d say though. He hasn’t screwed is around at all (unlike Rice, abuse merited). The connection there with Cannon and is is weak enough, let’s be honest, and it’s understandable if his heart lies elsewhere. It’s good that it’s come now and I think CTP is right. But kinda hard to interpret Kenny’s comments fully - like you’d hope putting it out there like that came with Moyes/Cannons blessing in some way or it would be a bit self-defeating and/or he knows the end already and doesn’t care about doing damage. Seems unlikely it’s the latter but who knows. If the door is truly still open to him committing to the green jersey I’d be saying to him at the meeting - “all things being equal, it’s you and Ferguson up front in Autumn and for the next 10+ years. Join us now or let’s leave it be”.

Out of curiosity, I wonder how involved Lee Carsely would be in this move?

I'd say Carsley has more important things to worry about with the U21 Euros starting next week and could well be out of a job next month.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

Out of curiosity, I wonder how involved Lee Carsely would be in this move?

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I had an eye on the Balogun switch from England to the USA recently ( & England losing that player almost certainly upped the focus on Cannon ) & Carsley was reported as having flown to France to meet him to try to sway him their way. Carsley was interviewed several times too on that one. So he's fairly front & centre here one can reasonably presume.

The Americans flew the player over and basically fellatio'ed the bejaysus out of him until they got their guy, which is in stark contrast to liamoo's proposed tactical approach here.

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Originally Posted by liamoo11

This is a leadership versus management moment for Kenny I think. If he wants to stay with us he goes back to the 21s in September regardless of how well he is doing at his club to earn the right to get senior caps

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That's 1970s management and players don't respond to that. Like it or not we have to play the game here and use whatever diplomacy needed to keep him on board. He might be brilliant, or he might be a L1 player but we still need to keep him on board if we can. It it doesn't work out then fair enough.

Nationality has been talked to death on here but most people would agree at this point it's more nuanced than that in this day and age. It's not a case of you're Irish or you're not.

I still think we are in strong position. Obafemi did similar to Cannon last year and had super 2nd half of season. A good preseason and there's a players still in him.

We forget Troy Parrott had a similar injury this season to what finished Paul O Connells rugby career, where his hamstring tore off the bone. He's still a very good player if he can get the attitude and application right.

Idah has a big season ahead, but he did well off the bench against France, and I do like him. He could age well if experience teaches him bit of cleverness. He's got talent.

And of course Evan Ferguson who is gonna be our main man for 15 years.

All these strikers are still so young and I'm not convinced Cannon is definitely better than any of them. He's only had about 10 hood games.

If we keep him great, if he goes so be it.

O'Connell was already coming to the end of his career. The hamstring injury just made it a little earlier than planned. Cian Healy had the same injury and is probably going to the world cup in September

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

O'Connell was already coming to the end of his career. The hamstring injury just made it a little earlier than planned. Cian Healy had the same injury and is probably going to the world cup in September

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My point was that it was serious, Connell had a contract to play in France the season after it happened and he never managed one game because of it

Wake you UP, paddys they aré colonialist to the core, they aré UP there to destroy irish football AND irish development, even the irish football supremo Is I believe an englishman, wake UP my friends!! I dont hate them but they always show their suprema y and ego everytime they can

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Originally Posted by JR89

I'd say Carsley has more important things to worry about with the U21 Euros starting next week and could well be out of a job next month.

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I dont think Carsley , I think More of the suits, and the full structure, I dont blame the kid, I blame the Situation, We have Garnacho to debut vs Australia on thursday, but until two months ago the spanyards were trying to lure him away of Argentina, they aré víctima of geopolítics these young footballers, thats when I agree with Kenny AND those videos, the only way you can bring these kids Is with More irish identity AND politika

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Originally Posted by Razors left peg

My point was that it was serious, Connell had a contract to play in France the season after it happened and he never managed one game because of it

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Well that escalated quickly..

Time for Ireland to say thanks, but no thanks to players like this.

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Originally Posted by weldoninhio

Time for Ireland to say thanks, but no thanks to players like this.

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How about players like Ryan Manning who also turned down call up this window?

QUOTE=weldoninhio;2151012]Time for Ireland to say thanks, but no thanks to players like this.[/QUOTE]

Not even sure how that works - if he comes to us later in the year and says he wants to continue to play for Ireland, do we refuse to pick him and tell him to switch? I'm perfectly happy to give him the summer to consider things - this is a friendly window so it's not a big deal - gives a couple of the other lads a chance to impress, which is good even if he does switch. I think it would be reasonable to expect him to make his choice before the qualifiers start so that we can plan properly, but if he is happy to stay with us, knowing he might get a senior call-up quite soon, then there's no reason to say no thanks to him

Cannon has been considered by Sunderland, who have decided that they can't afford him either on loan or on a permanent basis. Preston have spoken to Everton twice this summer about having Cannon back on loan or permanently.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spor...nsfer-27290180

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Originally Posted by Demesne Lad

Cannon has been considered by Sunderland, who have decided that they can't afford him either on loan or on a permanent basis. Preston have spoken to Everton twice this summer about having Cannon back on loan or permanently.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spor...nsfer-27290180

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When should Thomas let us know what his intentions are?

Do we wait for months, years ?

Or worse wait for him to realize he isn't going to play for England

You could easily see this season being a write-off in terms of him playing for us I'd say.

See how his form goes and if it's likely to be good enough to get on the England radar.

I think he'll be weighing up his own prospects and ours as well. I don't think many dual eligible players with realistic alternative options will be queueing up to play for us under Kenny with nil prospects of making it to a tournament. many will say good riddance, but the fact that we were qualifying and competing was clearly a consideration in the Charlton era and under Mick 1. Some of those players are now revered as legends.

Is he out of our range ?

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Originally Posted by Diggs246

When should Thomas let us know what his intentions are?

Do we wait for months, years ?

Or worse wait for him to realize he isn't going to play for England

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There won't be long to wait. He'll either be with us or be with England come the September window so he'll need to get his paperwork sorted if he's gonna switch.

Don't think he has time to wait around thinking about it because if he feels like England is the way to go he needs to be starting this upcoming U21s campaign for them. Might be the only time he gets to pull on an England shirt for awhile cause to break into the senior team is gonna take something special.

I dunno. It’s probbly the best time in decades to be a young English centre forward with aspirations for senior caps? Who is there aside from a currently 30 year old Kane blocking his path for medium term caps?

Long term, Rashford probably moves centrally if Kane were to retire soon, with Saka and Grealish/Foden on either side

Other options: Ivan Toney, Ollie Watkins, Tammy Abraham, Eddie Nketiah - all of whom are on a totally different level to Cannon right now

They also just won an u21 Euros and I'm sure there's a couple strikers in there that would have a claim.

I have a feeling Cannon will stay with us, not based on anything but gut feeling. I think he threw a strop this summer over not being picked in squad after missing training camp but I think time will hopefully heal that. I agree that we'll probably know by September

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Originally Posted by Razors left peg

They also just won an u21 Euros and I'm sure there's a couple strikers in there that would have a claim.

I have a feeling Cannon will stay with us, not based on anything but gut feeling. I think he threw a strop this summer over not being picked in squad after missing training camp but I think time will hopefully heal that. I agree that we'll probably know by September

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They actually played Gordon as there central striker in the euros which was interesting. The only recognised striker I think they had in squad was Archer from villa who had a good season on loan last year. The next 21s group for them has the likes of delap and scarlet from spurs as their centre forwards who haven't yet done as much as Cannon in senior football

incidentally, Delap's just signed for Hull on loan for the upcoming season

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Originally Posted by elatedscum

Long term, Rashford probably moves centrally if Kane were to retire soon, with Saka and Grealish/Foden on either side

Other options: Ivan Toney, Ollie Watkins, Tammy Abraham, Eddie Nketiah - all of whom are on a totally different level to Cannon right now

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between watkins and abraham i cant see there being many free games to hand out a cap to someone like canon. all the best to him, no issue with him switching now but id be shocked if he made more than a few token apps against a san marino in quals

I deliberately cited “medium term” regarding an English forward senior ambitions. The 21s started the final without a specialised club level centre forward from what I seen. And I don’t think the Watkins Abrahams and Toneys of this world present an insurmountable blockage for a reasonably good forward in 3-4 years time. I stand by the previous post. It’s the best time in decades to be a young English centre forward with Aspirations for senior caps. He’s jumped ship for sure. Good luck to him. Kenny should take ownership of the message though. And not another fluffy debacle ah la Rice and Grealish. “Apparently the young man has a decision to make. He knows how we value him. He knows how we feel and where we are. I’m giving him space and I won’t field any more questions on this from the media until I hear anything different from him.” Then shut down any questions on it there after.

Englands best young striker is probably Mason Greenwood if he can ever sort his career out, Cannon would be a good bit below his level, but he also may never play for England again given the personal stuff. With the players that have been listed here Cannon could have a decent shot of getting a good few caps for them if he starts playing regularly for Everton. Arguably he could have more difficult competition for the striker spot with Ireland with Ferguson ahead of him

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Originally Posted by Razors left peg

Englands best young striker is probably Mason Greenwood if he can ever sort his career out, Cannon would be a good bit below his level, but he also may never play for England again given the personal stuff. With the players that have been listed here Cannon could have a decent shot of getting a good few caps for them if he starts playing regularly for Everton. Arguably he could have more difficult competition for the striker spot with Ireland with Ferguson ahead of him

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This may not weather well but I don't think his overall game is anywhere near good enough to be a top level front man

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Originally Posted by liamoo11

This may not weather well but I don't think his overall game is anywhere near good enough to be a top level front man

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Right now we really don't know either way. He basically did what Obafemi did in season before where he was great in 2nd half of season. He needs to follow it up, Obafemi hasn't done that yet so we'll see on Cannon

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Originally Posted by dr_peepee

I deliberately cited “medium term” regarding an English forward senior ambitions. The 21s started the final without a specialised club level centre forward from what I seen. And I don’t think the Watkins Abrahams and Toneys of this world present an insurmountable blockage for a reasonably good forward in 3-4 years time. I stand by the previous post. It’s the best time in decades to be a young English centre forward with Aspirations for senior caps.

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Thing is with England, within 5 years there’ll probably be another wunderkind - think Owen, Rooney, Rashford, Greenwood. You can’t just look upwards for a country the size of England.

Or there’ll be an unheralded late developer like Vardy. In my lifetime and probably long before that, England have always had a world class striker leading the line

Maybe your right - but I still think right now, Tom Cannon probably only has a 25% chance of getting England senior caps and maybe a 10% chance of making a genuine international contribution, as opposed to the Danny Ings (3 caps, 1 goal) type scenario

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Originally Posted by Razors left peg

Englands best young striker is probably Mason Greenwood if he can ever sort his career out, Cannon would be a good bit below his level, but he also may never play for England again given the personal stuff. With the players that have been listed here Cannon could have a decent shot of getting a good few caps for them if he starts playing regularly for Everton. Arguably he could have more difficult competition for the striker spot with Ireland with Ferguson ahead of him

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Speaking of this piece of **** it was disappointing to see James Abankwah posing with him for a picture in Dubai at a training session.

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Originally Posted by JR89

Speaking of this piece of **** it was disappointing to see James Abankwah posing with him for a picture in Dubai at a training session.

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Well the girl he allegedly attacked is pregnant and living with him. Maybe it's not as clear cut as the media made it out to be. I'm torn on it tbh, the guy has not being convicted of anything, his girlfriend obviously forgiven him and there's plenty of stories out there of how some of our own "legends" treated women in their heyday.

I'm not a big fan of trial by media and if the guy was not even prosecuted he probably should be allowed get on with his career ... and I wouldn't go too hard on Abankwah

Regardless of the pics of her busted up etc; I don't know how anyone can listen to the audio recording and not come to the conclusion that he's an absolute scumbag. I don't care how young you are, what the circumstances were or that the young girl is still with him, you're an absolute scumbag.