No. It’s a fair question when the FAI is broke. Naming a better, viable replacement for him has to be part of the conversation for those who want him gone now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
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No. It’s a fair question when the FAI is broke. Naming a better, viable replacement for him has to be part of the conversation for those who want him gone now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
We seemed to have a plan A of playing through the inside left/right channel and then either shooting or crossing for the opposite forward to shoot. Armenia figured this out early, so manned the channels and denied the opposite player space to restrict chances. Other than Robinson's miscued shot, and Ogbene's free header, I don't think we created a clear goalscoring opportunity.
But, there was no plan B. The substitutes did not offer anything different that to the players that they replaced. McClean was not allowed to cross from the wing, so the balls he did put in were harmless.
Obafemi either did nothing or was so isolated he couldn't do anything, same as Parrott before him.
I think Keane and Browne were brought on to win headers - Browne has two headed goals, Kenny has spoken about Keane's ability in the air in press conferences - but I don't think either won anything in the air.
Duffy was pushed up front late on, which is sheer desperation in my opinion.
We are still so maddeningly inconsistent under Kenny. Play well against Serbia, lose to Luxembourg. Play well against Portugal, struggle to a point against Azerbaijan.
And now, after pushing Belgium hard and earning a win against a dogged Lithuania, we lose to Armenia. Form is temporary, class is permanent, and we're still not sure which is which under this manager.
Kenny earned some respite from the criticism in the first year of his reign with some good performances in the second half of last year, but if we play like that again on Wednesday against Ukraine then the knives will be back out.
to me this is worse than luxembourg at home. my expectations were quite low then and the result not a total shock. was at the 21s game last night and while the performance was just ok the result was great and all the talk around me was that after 2 u21s campaigns were we were competitive and the recent seniors improvement that we were on the way back. todays result is therefore a massive disappointment and has burst my bubble considerably
Losing Anthony Barry was huge. We were developing with him involved. We should have done everything to keep him. Gave him the top job and got rid of Kenny.
We all wanted Kenny to do well, some of us realised that he's way out of his depth a long time ago however. It's time for others, including many in the media to swallow their pride and admit they got it wrong with Kenny.
He is doing untold damage that could take years to recover from. How many more failures and embarrassing results have to happen before he's shown the door or how far down the rankings do we need to fall?
One final comment on the game that i forgot to share earlier. Its not an excuse at all but I thought the referee was diabolical and screwed us over a few times. Definitely seemed like a bit of a homer.
Ah there we go, was worried you weren't gonna bring up BarryQuote:
Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA
That's fine but what are you saying, Cullen is not good enough to be in our midfield, if so should he be replaced and if so by who?Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Considering midfield is also being populated by Hendrick and substitute McClean who imo should not be near the team, who do you think should replace those players?
Maybe you and others were wrong and Barry was responsible for the upturn in performances? You ignored the rest of my comment for some reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
How did Belgium do this week? Biggest competitive home defeat in 25 years I believe?
Results and performances for Ireland is all I care about. Do you dispute that things improved with Barry involved?Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
I've said previously, it wasn't perfect but at least Barry could set up a team. Kenny is clueless, the Armenian manager made an absolute show of him. Kenny couldn't figure out how to counteract some basic tactics. Maybe when he does he can give his media pals another demo in FAI headquarters.
Armenia lost 9-0 in their last game and Liechtenstein drew with them away recently. Why isn't Kenny getting destroyed in the media? Why aren't supporters calling for him to go?
Ironic that you completely ignore a comment after accusing another poster of the same thing!Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA
I think yesterday's game fitted in with the pattern of the Kenny regime to date tbh. Against the poor sides - Luxembourg, Andorra, Qatar, Azerbaijan, Lithuania and Armenia - we've tended to start brightly and if we score early then we get a bit of confidence, force the other team to come out of their shell, and we create more. (See Qatar (H) and Azerbaijan (A). Qatar in Hungary is the only exception, when we scored early and drew 1-1)
But if we don't score early, then we get bogged down, lose our way in the game, let the other side into it. Luxembourg (A) and Andorra (A) saw us get bogged down for more than an hour before finally scoring and then the other team had to change tack and we had more room and scored more. Yesterday could well have been the same if Ogbene had scored that sitter of a header on 45.
But the longer we don't score, the less we look like scoring, and it just takes a bolt from distance to really put us under pressure (Azerbaijan (H), Luxembourg (H) and Armenia (A)). We did at least get an equaliser against Azerbaijan by abandoning our game plan, sticking Duffy up front and lumping balls into him. That didn't work last night.
Then Lithuania (H) we bailed out in the 97th minute.
You could maybe add both Bulgaria games to that list given how far they've fallen - they meet the same pattern.
So to be honest, I think all those games fit a broad pattern that has been reasonably consistent in Kenny's time, regardless of coach. We're too easy to defend against, have no creativity, and are unwilling to have a pop from distance; the only positive is that if we do take the lead and make a poor team come at us, we can get in behind them then
I agree, yesterday's game was an utter shambles which describes Kenny's reign perfectly. You can judge a manager on where the team was prior to taking over and where they currently stand. He has driven us backwards by a long way. From qualifying and coming really close to qualifying for major tournaments, Kenny has turned us into no hopers scraping it out at the bottom of groups.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Stephen Kenny shows again how out of his depth he really is and how poor and amateurish the LOI is. Nobody managing or playing in that league should be near the Irish setup. The talk from the LOI groupies about not being able to get rid of him because there is nobody better to replace him with is the usual garbage designed to obfuscate the real issue (Kenny himself) and keep their man in the driving seat no matter how disastrous his term in charge proves to the Ireland team. He should have been sacked a year ago. It will now take years to repair the damage he has done. To put things into perspective Staunton had a more impressive record as Ireland manager.
For 550,000 Euros a year I'm sure you could find a multitude of managers who would be interested in the job but I don't expect anything to happen as the FAI, in their infinite wisdom, decided to recently extend his contract. They would now have to pay this clown a fortune to leave.
For all the fools singing his praises I leave you with this - you are as responsible as he is for the absolute dire state of circumstances the current Irish team finds itself in. The team are a laughing stock amongst our closest neighbours and I'd imagine to anyone who cares in the footballing world at large.
You're again "ignoring the rest of my comment for some reason" (your quote) where I say that I don't see much difference across the various coaches/assistant managers we've had. Or am I to take it you actually agree with that part too?Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA
You don't see much of a difference between battling it out at the bottom of groups with Bulgaria, Luxembourg, Azerbaijan and Armenia and qualifying and coming close to qualifying for major tournaments?Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Of course I do.
But I don't see much difference between Kenny with Anthony Barry as coach and with someone else as coach, which is the point being discussed.
Well, I can't do anything to help your observational skills I'm afraid.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
The point being discussed is Kenny showing that he is completely out of his depth at this level. How much more evidence is needed before his fanatics face that reality?
I guess you could address my post where I analyse our performances across the various coaches and argue that the same issues are arising regardless of who the coach is.Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA
That might involve going away from your stock cliches though.
Get El Loco Marcelo Bielsa, he wants a national team, Australia is after him and Bolivia and Chile too, he loves The DNA of The irish players as Leeds Marseille and The basques, turn ordinary players into better one, he is a crazy teacherQuote:
Originally Posted by youngirish
I totally Agree and he stopped calling up players he trusted McGrath and Horgan for no reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
I had to stop watching the game at half time and left the game thinking that we were in control and at worst a nil all draw at the end.
Like I said, if you didn't notice the improvements with Barry involved, then you need to work on your observational skills.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
The main point which I think you agree with though is that Kenny has proven that he is way out of his depth.
I'm not pro-Kenny at all and I think that some of the excuses offered up to defend the lowlights of his tenure are silly (especially the Covid one, it was a global pandemic after all) and I think failing to score in half his games is pretty abysmal. This is a lousy Irish team but I don't believe he's getting the best out of them and wouldn't miss him if he was to go.Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA
All that said you offer absolutely nothing to any discussion here. You just parrot the same banal stock cliches over and over and over and over again with (whether intended or otherwise) all the monotony and tedium of a smug, determined martyr who seems to believe that they're defending a concept beyond the understanding of mere mortals. That's not the case and you being snide with people for not bowing down to you as some sort of footballing prophet rather than showing even a hint of flexibility just informs the theory that you're simply making noise. Infract me if needed for the above Tets, I'm more than happy to take one for the team.
Hilariously I can see absolutely no difference between your posting style and Kenny's team. No imagination, no variety, just a dogged persistance to a vague ideal with a terrifying lack of an end result and complete incomprehension of the failures of your approach.
I'm good.
He might need another and longer holiday Tets. I see less and less of the posters, of all opinions, I and others have frequented this place for twenty years to speak to & this coincides directly with a small few who come on here to say only one thing about one subject & adding nothing to even that one discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Well said Razor. Our game was crying out for a 10. Parrott was given a similar role to the one he played at home to Azerbaijan and he was out of the game both times. When we haven't played with an advanced playmaker Robinson used to drop deep and play that role - think of his goal against Qatar where he was involved several times in the move that eventually led to him being played in. I didn't notice him doing that yesterday at all.
I thought after 20 mins there was a comfortable win on the cards for us if we just eradicated the sloppiness but instead the sloppiness got progressively worse. I thought the first half tempo was too slow but I wondered if it was partly strategic, to keep more in the tank for the second half in high temperatures, but no, it was just a flat, slow, careless performance from start to finish with no player coming close to an acceptable level of performance. Tactical mistake not playing Parrot just ahead of the midfield two nothwithstanding, maybe it's time of year (several sides had unexpectedly bad results), maybe it's the travel, maybe it's the heat or maybe they just needed a right boot up the arse which never came. There was a real disappointing lack of leadership on the pitch last night. We played like we were entitled to a goal, not like we had to earn one.
This is a right hammer blow for Kenny alright but let's see how we react. I maintain that the re-boot Kenny is trying to execute is needed. He may or may not be the guy to do it but someone has to.
As for Anthony Barry, how have Belgium done since he joined their set up? :)
what a bizarre use of ogbene yesterday i cant get my head around it at all.
Ireland record under Kenny:
Played: 23
Won: 5
Drawn: 10
Lost: 8
Goals scored: 24
Goals conceded: 23
With Barry involved:
Played: 12
Won: 4
Drawn: 5
Lost: 3
Goals scored: 19
Goals conceded: 10
Without Barry involved:
Played: 11
Won: 1
Drawn: 5
Lost: 5
Goals scored: 5
Goals conceded: 13
No matter what way you look at it, it's a pretty abysmal record but a clear difference with and without Barry. When you compare it with the McCarthy era you can see just how bad the Kenny reign has been. And McCarthy's reign was looked on as a poor one!
Irelands main problem is upfront, and if the results are not coming, he may need to try younsters upfront, I wouldn't have left Shane Long out for presence and attitude, nor Connolly since he is getting on , and I would add Coventry, Lee O'Connor Bagan and Smallbone for the senior squad, Ireland must try youngsters as the welsh did , the Europa League games arent that vital but its a chance to check your form, like friendly matches with some importance, for me the main things are both the qualies.Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA
coventry and o'connor not good enough. we need kilkenny getting club games , he looks a lot better than coventry. we desperately need another player with a bit of nous in the middleQuote:
Originally Posted by Bielsa´s irish
I don't want to bore everyone to death but Dan Crowley? Eligible?. and if so good enough?
Maybe like on Saturday. He might have helped in last 20 mins to change formation to gave a 10 behind and out and out stricker
I think the reaction has been a tad OTT, and I’d rather reserve full judgement until after the next three games. Agree the result is not good enough but the performance wasn’t that bad, although admittedly lacking the tempo and urgency to win a competitive game. We created chances to score and had long period of comfort and control. However, our dead balls deliveries were poor, and our set plays lacked imagination to capitalise on our aerial strength. Our substitutions had no impact. And Kelleher has to save that.
The result aside, we are in a far better position than where we started under Kenny. The strength of the squad is improved, there is a nice complementary balance there, and we do have genuine pace and a X factor in the forward line that we didn’t previously have. Ogbene is an absolute find for us. Whatever happens with Kenny going forward, the squad he has assembled gives reason for optimism.
The problem with football is that it's relative. The players aren't good enough to bring Ireland up a level; they might be decent with different qualities than the usual Irish teams(more speed) but other teams are getting better as well, you're only as good as the teams you're up against. I don't see our team being good enough in the near or long term to move up a level or two. These things can change though but we look like a team in terminal decline. It can happen, I see Bulgaria lost 5-2 to Georgia at home, they qualified for the Euros in 04 and the last thing I remember was them just kicking Swedish players off the pitch knowing they were out. Nearly 20 years later they haven't been back to a major tournament. At this stage, qualifying for the World Cup is a true measure of a European countries football success, the Euro's is still a great tournament but even poor sides can qualify.Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
We have been in decline for 20 odd years but I think we're turned a corner. We don't have a Robbie Keane/ Damien Duff creative star quality to build a team around, see Norway here with Ødegaard/ Haaland, but collectively the squad is getting better imo and would argue there is changing positivity/ belief in our approach to games. I'm optimistic about the future. :-)
Well that’s all you’re ever going to see when you are a glass half empty sort of person.Quote:
Originally Posted by irishultra
Before the match, due to the conditions, distances involved and the lengthy gap for many of the players between the end of their club seasons and this fixture, I expected to see a certain ring-rustiness and lack of sharpness in our play until we got into our stride. And this was borne out in our first half performance; we started slowly but improved as the half wore on - the final twenty or so minutes before half-time wasn't actually too bad. I fully expected the team to go out in the second half, really take the game by the scruff of the neck and get the goal we needed to open the game up.
Instead the opposite was true; Armenia started to take more control - underscored by the spectacular goal they had chalked off for offside - and I could see belief building in the Armenians that despite losing their previous game 9-0, Ireland were, in fact, no great shakes, and they could actually get a result on the day. We just couldn't respond, Kenny didn't make the changes that were obviously needed and the inevitable happened.
I thought both wingbacks were poor. Stevens - a doubt before the game - didn't look match-fit and Coleman looked like you'd expect a veteran coming off the back of a gruelling relegation battle to look. Were they really the best choices in the 30-plus degree heat?
The front three were deeply unimpressive. Parrott and Ogbene didn't dovetail with the wingbacks as you'd hope and they instead seemed to impede each other. We needed a focal point to our attack, ideally a genuine number 9 with a physical presence. Robinson isn't either of those things. His best position is coming off the left in a 4-2-3-1/4-3-3.
Cullen offered nothing in a creative or attacking sense. Hendrick ran out of steam after 50 minutes or so and this wasn't addressed nearly early enough. Collins and Egan contributed almost nil to our attack. Collins was sloppy in possession and Egan didn't look comfortable. We need a left-footed player on the left-hand side of defence in games like this where we expect to have the bulk of possession.
The shape just didn't work.
People often cite the lack of quality players at the coach's disposal when examining our failings, and of course there's a lot of truth in that. But the reality is that Kenny was outthought by his opposite number on Saturday.
Shorn of their retired star man Mhkitaryan, the vast majority of the Armenian squad play in the Armenian league - ranked behind the leagues of Lithuania, Moldova, Kosovo, Luxembourg and, yes, the League of Ireland.
There's no excuse for what happened the other day.
Isn't Connor Ronan more like the kind of player needed to unlock a packed deep-lying defence? Parrott should have been used in that type of role though, so it's not like there wasn't anyone like that available to us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
Kenny could have some LOI players who are at peak fitness in the first 11 but instead slavish obsession with English football means he picks players who are coming off 46 game league campaigns and relegation battles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trequartista20
you are deranged if you think theres enough good loi players to make a difference at international level.Quote:
Originally Posted by irishultra
Is it confirmed that Sykes is injured? Someone on YBIG claimed he was but I can't find verification. He would at least provide something different.
We're in desperate need of creativity, someone capable of the unexpected - a moment of magic. But obviously those sort of players are in short supply.
Would Mandriou have been a useful option?