Until we start seeing Ireland actually perform in a game playing a different style we can't complain. We're a long way from that yet, if we ever get there.
Until we start seeing Ireland actually perform in a game playing a different style we can't complain. We're a long way from that yet, if we ever get there.
I think it's fair enough to complain about being labelled '"British", regardless.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
I think we've spoken about this before was this translated as British style or British team, it's fair game really. Id imagine most countries know the Republic of Ireland is a sovereign state.
He will know this, yes, but it shows also they are that confident about tomorrow they are happy call us the one thing we really don't like being called possibly.
And they will get some hop when we total football them off the field tomorrow in a very non British style.
What is British style these days anyway? More advanced than us I'd say.
Playing 9 defenders and hoping Harry Kane can bundle one in with his hoop?
That's very reductionist. You've completely ignored the penalty-seeking nature of their attack. It might be **** to watch, and occasionally rise above borderline cheating to non-borderline cheating, but let's not let our hatred of the British blind us to the nature of their current team.Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheotherhand
Lucky *******s: their fifth choice right back would arguably be our best player these days. Style is not nothing, but it's completely subservient to quality of players.
All things considered, saying suggesting we played with a 'British' style of play would be a very great and undeserved compliment.
All things considered, suggesting we played with a 'British' style of play would be a very great and undeserved compliment.
You're right, I'd forgotten about Sterling. That two pronged attack in front of 8 defenders thankfully only got them so far but I actually think Southgate was brave to try something new and not cave in to the hype around a lot of their attacking players. Maybe it's how we should line up given we only seem to have keepers and defenders of any quality available.Quote:
Originally Posted by John83
So...what are we looking at this evening?
Pros
Portugal flattered to deceive a bit at the Euros, albeit with a very tough draw
Shane Duffy can play a bit again
Ronaldo is certain to start, and Portugal are slightly worse with him in the team these days
It's not entirely clear if the manager knows where Ireland is, and they may have scouted the wrong team
Cons
There'll presumably be a big home crowd and no away fans
Ronaldo wants the record
Portugal get to put out ten other players who are almost all world class
We are ****e
I think I'd be happy with damage limitation and a repeat of the 3-0 scoreline from Wembley last year (which really could have been more if England were bothered), and let Ronaldo get his record so we can share his place in the record books :). I think this game is pretty much entirely separate from the other two (home to Azerbaijan/Serbia) unless we end up losing 7-0 and have a big crisis of confidence going into them, but touch wood that won't happen. (Though I can't quite go so far as to definitely say it won't!)
At this stage no poor performance is acceptable, so you can't just discount this game and hope for better for the next two. The problem for us at the moment which is not in our control or any smaller younger squads is 3 days over 7 days or so. It's a huge ask especially with all the flying involved( although Serbia had it worse I think) even if this set of fixtures is lucky for us. You can't afford to focus on 2/3 games but yet if the third one is your most winnable ( which it isn't again in this round of fixtures) it adds even more pressure. If we're hockeyed by Portugal, come out with a draw against Azerbaijan it leaves us in a terrible state of mind heading into Serbia. I think dealing with this kind of mental and physical dilemna is going to be a big issue for us.
I thought it was reported that the crowd will be something like 8 or 9 thousand tonight
Just undr 8 I believe, a 7 and I think a 9 and 5 somewhere in there!
Fairly sure it's 25% capacity and just under 8k but can't remember where I saw that. Maybe it's just the usual match day optimism, but I expect us to keep it tight and make it very awkward for Portugal. I don't think we'll concede more than 2 and if we nick one at the other end there's a chance we get away with a draw. Obvious concern is in midfield, really only Cullen playing regularly so far this season and whoever is selected will need to put in a massive shift. Hopefully if there's evidence that lads have run themselves into the ground after 55 minutes there's no hesitation in brining in fresh legs early. With three games in seven days, he's probably going to have to use all the midfielders in the squad at some stage anyway. Expecting some variation of 3-5-2 or more realistically it'll be closer to a 5-4-1 or 5-3-1-1. Wouldn't mind seeing Long given the job of leading the line from the start for his experience with Parrot dropping into the deeper role and helping the midfield.
if we mix it up a bit like we did against hungary then i think 2-0 at worst. we have to get in around them and basically annoy them at every turn.
if we fanny around with the ball with no purpose it will be a very long night. we have to get the ball into their half as quick as possible with purpose by playing up the wings rather than through the middle of the pitch.
I think that's the first time we've ever had fanny about used on this forum but it couldn't be more pertinent to our performances of late! Agreed.
Yep I agree we have to be annoying them at every turn too.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
Define purpose though. I'm no fan of short passes from the goalkeeper but if the objective of a passing game is to create space by committing the opposition press and beating it, then that's surely a purpose?
We all know that the notion of Ireland being allowed to go all tikka takka in Portugal is fantasy stuff, so the best we can hope for is to be able to mix it up. We’ll have to use our wits out there tonight but I’d still hope that always our instinct is to trust ourselves on the ball and not panic because you’re at risk of being tackled. Being careless, playing speculative passes and losing the ball quickly and cheaply will only play into Portugal’s hands. I reckon we’ll have more opportunity from wide areas too, but often getting the ball into a dangerous wide area by creating an overload comes from making progress through the middle. Germany found weakness in Portugal’s flanks but not by playing the ball up the touchline from fullback.
I’d be keen to see Horgan start. We’ll struggle to pass our way through Portugal’s lines so we could do with someone who can carry the ball.
A 2-0 loss wouldn't have me too dissapointed. Even 3-0 if we looked somewhat respectable. That's the limit of my ambitions. If we scored I'd be stunned.
Wow. Come on guys. We might and probably will get beaten. But dont ever ever be satisfied with a defeat.
In fairness, we have to have some bit of realism about this evening.
Azerbaijan is a bigger game in that if we don't win that - or at least play well and be unlucky - there's serious alarm bells starting to ring. Tonight I'm almost not worried about in a way (so long as we don't really get shown up)
Azerbaijan is must win. no excuses.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
if we don't win there is a real possibility (almost certainty) that we could finish last in the group. that would be unthinkable really
I agree; it's as close to a must-win as any game this early in a campaign. Azerbaijan is on Luxembourg's level. One defeat at that level is crap. Two would be cause for a resignation, not that I expect it of Kenny.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
20 years to the day since the 1-0 win over a star studded holland...... and we only had 10 men for much of that game!
It's sad really, 20 years later and we are out after 2 games
I've constantly said that we've not reached the nadir, and I stand by that statement. We could reach it tonight.
As someone (can't remember who) said to me recently, despite all the criticism, all the whinging, all the fantasism, we've actually not had a hammering yet by anyone under Kenny. And that's correct, statistically - irrespective of the opposition we've faced.
I've a real fear that tonight could be that night - the night we reach our nadir, and the night we take a hammering. But, alternatively, I also think that tonight's game is totally disconnected to the other two. Nobody is expecting anything (I'd suspect even the players might have such thoughts) from tonight, bar a defeat and the possibility of some encouraging signs in the performance. not that should be acceptable, but there's got to be realism as to our current state of affairs, which now clearly and undeniably run beyond the manager's stewardship.
Lets assume Portugal are going to have chances - due to the way we're trying to play, their ability, and the recent signs that we are both conceding possession and gifting weaker teams chances. Assuming, and history points this way, that we are somewhat expansive (in so far as we won't defend deep and compact) and look to get our foot on the ball, then we could have a long uncomfortable night ahead of us.
I think Ronaldo going for the record is problematic for us in two ways. They'll keep the foot on the throat to get him his goal, and if he gets one early in the game, they'll go like the clappers to try and ensure he gets more, given they have the qatar game next before going to Baku.
as I said, I'm fearful tonight, I think we could be on the end of something really ugly, 5, 6 or 7 isn't beyond the realms....if a portugal team warming up for a world cup can put 5 against a better Irish side than the one we're likely to see tonight, then....
I'm very interested in how Duffy does tonight - I assume he'll be selected. I'm vocal in that he wouldn't be in my team, but I'm humble enough to acknowledge that he's started the season in seemingly fine form and there can be no quibble over his selection if it happens. But a commanding performance against Homoerectus Wood is not the same as facing Portugal, so I'll be interested to see what
Part of my is fascinated by where we are in terms of selection (both team and squad). As above, personally I'd totally disconnect tonight and Saturday. If anything I'd look at tonight as the bookend of a pretty shít two years. And Saturday is the beginning - either the beginning of the end, or the beginning of the start :-)
What do we know of Kenny?
He's loyal - but not to a fault.
He's happy to rotate between games, and between ambitions.
He's able to switch between formations.
I would not be surprised to see Hendrick and Hourihane chaperone Cullen in midfield, both for experience to provide cover for the wing backs or full backs between the lines, before being expended for Azerbaijan on Saturday. I do think that's a realistic possibility. Likewise we know that he's going to have his teams pressing high up the pitch, so I wouldn't be at all surprised to see more energetic athletic players starting in the front 3 or 4. That would mean McClean, Long, Connolly (who did a great job of this in tandem with Idah the last time they started together).
I've not been home to Ireland in nearly 3 years, but I'm going back for the Azerbaijan game, as I really do think it's the start of something new.
Assuming we lose tonight - I know, I know, pessimism and all that - but assuming it... if we won every other game in the group, and avoided defeat to Portugal in Dublin, would that be enough for posters here to see Kenny stay on for the Nations League?
I suppose. In that event you'd have signs of progression for sure, and beating Serbia would be an achievement.
Agreed that would be progression and he would deserve the NL, but realism is out the window, if we get beaten 6 or 7 tonight and then think we can show Serbia a thing or two about a little game called football!
Much and all as a hammering is a nagging worry (there I go again! :) ) in the back of my mind, would a 1-0 defeat on Tuesday be more or less of a nadir than a 5-0 tonight?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
Certainly I can't quite remember the last time I was so downbeat about our chances a game, if ever.
I've no idea how bad we are or if the group is at rock bottom. Never have I seen such a lack of support for a developing team though, social media currently is a cesspit read for anyone who has any optimism in the nation's team going forward. Heavy defeat predicted by the masses, I personally can't see it.
I was heavily invested in Portugal in the euros as I got them in one of those £20 quid per month draws. Watching them, they conceded lots of chances and were turd, yep, got sweet FA back. On tonight, their players focusing on Ronaldo breaking the record could actually hinder them rather than help them and could take away from any game plan they have been instructed to carry out. That's my tuppence worth. As optimistic as I possibly can be.
Yes. Going from one win in 13 (and that vs Andorra in a friendly) to multiple competitive wins in a row and a draw with Portugal would be an astonishing turnaround.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
Not expecting a result tonight but I am expecting a bit of courage. The nature of the performances under Kenny are very disappointing and the slow, passing tempo makes them team look lazy when things are not going right. Being written off and ridiculed should inspire the players and Kenny to prove people wrong. If we lose as timidly as we did in the friendly against England, I think it should be the end for Kenny regardless of the other 2 results.
It has to start somewhere!Quote:
Originally Posted by John83
I've no expectations either. I don't have a checklist of what I want to see other than RiffRaff's courage being the minimum, or what scoreline I'll tolerate. I'll know a creditable showing if and when I see it. Hungary really gave them a scare in the Euros and lost 3-0 in the end. If our game panned out the same way I can't say I'd be unhappy.
Courage, hunger, fight, with a bit of added ambition, creativity and composure. No too much to ask for I hope. It's going to be the beginning of something one way or the other, the end or a new era.
Courage on its own is not enough, it has to be moral courage.
I don’t think I’ve been this pessimistic about our chances of a result since we beat the GermansQuote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Technically you couldn't go from a nadir to a nadir, so I would say that a 1-0 defeat at home to Azerbaijan would indeed usurp a nadir of a tanking in Faro.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
I'm not actually downbeat about tonight, but more upbeat about saturday.
That's an interesting point, but I think you'll agree, such an outcome (a 3-0 defeat) is only going to be digested one way, regardless of the manner of the defeat, or the style in executing the 3-0 defeat: a slaughtering of the manager and players associated with him - among the masses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Would you agree?
This is a bit of a free hit for Kenny so any suggestions that tonight's result would put him in jeopardy seem wide of the mark. Perhaps if we really got a tanking that could be reviewed...
If we come out of the 3 games with fewer than 4 points I think that would show a distinct lack of progress.