Mick is hardly short of a few pound. And under the circumstances if his fee is too big their is an alternative ! !Quote:
Originally Posted by IsMiseSean
Mick is hardly short of a few pound. And under the circumstances if his fee is too big their is an alternative ! !Quote:
Originally Posted by IsMiseSean
Yeah....I think we can throw basically all of those quotes out the window given nobody saw this pandemic coming. Honestly there's a good chance that even by next summer the Euros won't be able to go ahead.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Even by next summer?
For what it’s worth, I think the performances were better under McCarthy than the last 2 and a half years of O’Neill.Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy_c12000
An impossible situation for everyone involved.
Positives of the reign, established the likes of McGoldrick, Egan, Stevens into the side.
I think it’s the wrong decision personally but hopefully Kenny proves me totally wrong.
The right decision. I've got a soft spot for Mick but this is a new FAI where transparency and fairness seem to be making progress not shady deals to keep everyone sweet. Mick got us to the playoffs so he can walk away with some measure of success and hopefully into a decent club role this summer. It's not the ending anybody would have wanted for him, but it's better than his first spell. I think his legacy will be OK this time. If Kenny completes the job it's down to Mick's rebuilding work [edit - what ES said, two posts up], and if he doesn't ... ah, he will.
It’s a big job for Kenny to step straight into a play-off.
I’d like to think there’ll be a lot of phone-calls between Mick and Stephen to impart all relevant info on to the new guy. But it’s a whole different dynamic for the team. New backroom team, assistant manager, coaches etc.
Far from ideal for a huge play-off game (or two)
In all probability the play offs will not be played in the 1st intl.window. None of the teams involved would want that, most likely to happen in the 2nd or 3rd window.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
McCarthy did not bring us to the play offs, we were already there. We are just back to the state of affairs pre-Mick. Yet there's talk of a Eur1m bonus to be paid to Mick should SK lead the team to qualification via the play offs. This question was put to the stand-in CEO when being interviewed earlier today, he replied to the effect that he wasn't too worried about bonuses or such because there would be Eur 8m or 9m floating about should we qualify and Mick got us to the play offs.
The interviewer thanked him effusively for being so open and transparent. That such a farcical non-answer by a FAI CEO be accepted as our norm is bad enough but the sycophancy on the part of a journalist who is supposed to ask questions is almost as bad.
I think Mick did okay, a D+. There was no bounce effect when he came in at the deep end and if Georgia be held up as one comparison, he did no better or no worse than previous. But he's put some valuable healthy distance between this current squad and the demise of O'Neill and laid a good foundation for Kenny.
I'd take from that that they were tied into a ridiculous contract by Delaney with no simple way out. But they can't say as much in case Delaney ever faces a reckoning in court (oh please, oh please!) and he gets off because they prejudiced his case. Or maybe I'm just reading too much into it.
Mick did not get the team to the play offs, so what gentleman, by any standards of gentleman standards, could feign a sense of deservedness about the prospect of such reward should Ireland get to the finals.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eminence Grise
We are told repeatedly about Mick's genuine fervor, just how Mick was not about money but genuine patriotism. Sorry, but that's a pile of dung.
Unless someone else was managing the team when they finished in the play off positions, Mick McCarthy was the manager who got the team to the play offs.
We didn't finish in the "play-off positions". We got a play-off spot based off our Nations League ranking, which was in effect based off our coefficient ranking prior to kicking a ball in this campaign. A play-off was more or less a guarantee with the ridiculous new format.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Gentlemen? Football? The 1880s have been on to say their thread's been hijacked.
None of us know the fine details of the contract, how loose or vague the criteria for paying out might have been, or how reckless it could be to chance breaking it, get dragged to the Four Courts and end up paying the million anyway and McCarthy's costs. Or whether it's the negotiated price to pay for McCarthy stepping down - I'm sure he could argue that the FAI have denied him a chance to earn the bonus. I just hope it's the last bloated pay-out of the Delaney era.
You can request it all be moved to the FAI thread, that wouldn't bother me. Better that than not to discuss it, wrap it all in a fudge box and move on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eminence Grise
That's what the FAI would like you to do and seeing that Mick the honorable has already departed the stage with his swag, further discussion could be presented as pointless.
The details of McCarthy's contract had been leaked by 'deep throat' to the Sunday Times, printed out with certainty and in some detail. If one standard to determine veracity that we can use is 'precedent', all the other information that the ST printed about the FAI finances has turned out to be accurate, gone unchallenged and become an accepted truth. It's clear McCarthy had an exit payment written into his contract.
The Eur1m contracted payment to McCarthy, should Ireland get to the Euros, admittedly has some uncertainty, not least because the journalist involved failed in an interview to extract a definite answer from the stand-in FAI Ceo. Nevertheless the clear implication from the CEO was that McCarthy would be paid this Eur1m bonus.
Now you have a certainty?:)Quote:
I'm sure he could argue that the FAI have denied him a chance to earn the bonus.
Mick was not denied the chance to lead us to the Euros, his contract had expired.
Certainly the original contract plans got disturbed by u turns, revisions and sweeteners, belatedly made by Delaney in band aid survival panic mode.
Robbie was with a 4 year contract and a manager in waiting promise. But Mick already had Terry Connor as assistant manager.
Mick was kept in the dark in regards to promises made to Robbie. Sometime after, Delaney in political survival mode shafted Robbie to the sideline and brought in Kenny. McCarthy was handed a sweetener in order to belatedly accept a non-extendible contract and be supportive of Kenny his successor. Mick arrived to discover Robbie was lurking around Abbotstown with a 4 year contract pinned to his track suit.
No wonder the FAI want you to move on. I think a good 4 part documentary would be in order, with the full cooperation of the ST journalists.
All right – I admit, you got me. You know as much as I do about all this.*
Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Dammit! Did you have to out me? For years I’ve been out of the FAI’s reaches, their nemesis, the one person who scares them more than a ST hack with a deadline looming, as they keep their secrets in a volcanic underwater lair a few miles from Bull Island. Instead of outing me and this conspiracy could you not have spent your time more productively – there must be a 5G mast nearby you could shout at instead?Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
But how did you know I like fudge? Just who are you, exactly, geysir - if that is your real name? Which I doubt....
Why stop there? Why not give it the seven-season big budget Sky Atlantic treatment – Game of Throw-Ins with Andrew Scott as Kenny, Sean Bean as Mick, Robert Sheehan as Robbie, Scarlett Johansson as Claudine, and any former Gaiety Panto villain as Jawn D - the uglier the better!Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Five weeks into lockdown, you hardly expected a serious response, did you?
* Given that I know SFA, I wouldn’t get too excited about that.
Play off games to possibly be played in October
https://www.fai.ie/ireland/news/octo...-2020-play-off
I, for one, can wait to watch it from my armchair as a true fan.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
There isn't any hope whatsoever that we'll be playing any International football in Dublin before a crowd without limitations this year. Not a hope.
I agreeQuote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
I actually think there will be no premier league next season. Unless played without fans. Which would ruin their brand
Really? You think that matters more than TV money?Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
My understanding is sky/BT etc are threatening to sue the premier league for breach of contract. I might be wrong but that's what I thought
Hence why I think they would go ahead and play games behind closed doors if they need to, regardless of how it may or may not "ruin their brand."
Is Covid-19 not an Act of God ? Tricky for atheists I suppose. I suppose Sky / BT will be atheist if it is better in Court ! !Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
I imagine TV rights holders and the league will want to get closed door matches going as soon as possible. Don’t see how anyone but idiots would hold it against the brand.
Any revenue better than no revenue — and TV money— not gate receipts, now makes up bulk of revenue given international viewership.
As crazy as it sounds, at this point in time, there has to be a chance of this being correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
Problem is bar-stoolers, are bar-stoolers. If they can't see that Burnley vs Southampton is **** football, before a crowd, they won't notice it without a crowd.Quote:
Originally Posted by Olé Olé
they won't end up at a loi ground as a result - unfortunately. TV companies know this. They have the football fans hooked, "live" football in your pub/sitting room is a thing, it is the established norm now.
I'm surprised it has lasted this long to be honest. The only thing that has prevented it from happening I would imagine is seanfhear's comment below re Act of God. I assume that there are certain clauses written into these contracts, to protect against delays in seasons, but nothing on the potential scale of seasons being cancelled or reduced etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
That said, surely tv companies sell their packages at the start of the season anyway, and customers who have purchased a package at the start of a season need to hold the contract for 12 months anyway, so there probably is protection in that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
I'm exhausted, so probably not getting what you are saying. If it isn't safe to attend football games, then it can't be safe to play football games. This shouldn't be hard to comprehend - I don't think anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by irishfan86
What annoys me about our current situation...it's an inconvenience, absolutely; but it's not a war. There are no food shortages, no rations. People can booze, eat ****e, watch tv, read books, order things online. There is no threat to life, if you apply a bit of common sense, and those around you do the same.
"There is no threat to life"
I know you didn't mean this, but still !!!
I'm not sure about the Act of God thing but TV rights are sold on a multi-year basis usually. The Premier League will have missed a trick if they didn't have some Catastrophe or "unable to provide service" clause. Or if not they could/should have insurance. FIFA always insures the WC being unable to be staged because of terrorism for example, and Wimbledon cashed in $140 million recently from an insurance policy with Lloyd's of London. They had been paying $2 million a year premium to the Lloyd's market for insurance against a major disruption. Not sure if it was pandemic specific or a range of disruption events.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
UEFA has decided to overlook FFP for this season I hear.
I think footballer's contracts should be structured roughly as follows:
A club earns 3 revenue lines: match day, commercial (ie sponsorship, merchandising betc.) and broadcasting
Broadcasting revenues are centrally distrubuted. For example, SKY pays the EPL, the EPL pays the clubs depending on a formula. UEFA sells rights to broadcasters and distributes to clubs according to a formula based on participation and performance
So,
A players joins a club on X salary. At the outset the club determines whether the amortisation of the transfer fee and the annual salary is affordable under FFP and if it's decent value. That's how things are currently.
But I think contracts should be constructed so that the salary is Miniumum Amount + (Additional Amount * Adjustment Factor).
Adjustment factor = something like: take Expected or ("base case") Match Day Annual Revenue and Expected Broadcasting Distributions, and adjust according to actual outcomes.
So if a club misses out on CL and CL was expected then wages adjust. If EPL performance is better than expected, wages adjust. If both fall off a cliff, then wages adjust dramatically.
Of course players unions won't go for it but it would introduce an automatic stabiliser. The leagues, clubs or players could collectively buy pandemic or other insurance against their income falling drastically due to an insurable event, but not a "bad footballing performance" event. Relegation would adjust wages down because a club would now be on a new TV deal, and this would avoid the Parachute Payment debacle which distorts balance in the lower leagues.
My theory on this is that it won't be possible to complete the Premier League in any real way. Liverpool's title is legitimate, but relegation isn't really fair under these circumstances. They should maybe allow Liverpool to play a few games behind closed door to make it mathematically secure, then decide final league positions on the basis of points per game.
Then have a 22 team Premier League starting in August or Sept, played behind closed doors if needs be, and don't have PL clubs in the cups next season (if they even take place). Have 4 down, and 2 up in 2020/21, then get back to normal in 2021/22.
Every league in every country will need a bespoke solution depending on how things were when football was suspended. E.g. Serie A might want to hold a 'final' between Lazio & Juve to decide the scudetto
Basically you want the EPL to finish in a way that suits Liverpool, Leeds and West Brom, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by backstothewall
Either you finish out the league, or you don't. You cannot "look after" a few teams, by engineering a finish that suits them, but leave other teams hanging
PPG if the league stopped today, would put Sheffield United ahead of Man United, something that could decide a CL spot, if City are banned for next season.
And then why aren't Wolves/Spurs/Arsenal, even Burnley/Palace/Everton allowed a fair chance of making 5th, all are within 6 points, with 9/10 games left
And why only Leeds and West Brom going up? 11 teams are within 6 points of a play off spot. Are they not all entitled to have a fair chance of promotion too?
I wonder are you a Liverpool supporter? Because the league does not revolve around Liverpool.
Either finish it, or nullify it.
I don't think the options can be limited to just these two. In fact, I don't think either of those are options at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Insidetherock
It's looking increasingly likely that "finish it" isn't going to be doable; France has suspended all professional sport until September for example. But if there is an EL/CL next season, then there needs to be some decision on who takes part, and UEFA have said nullifying a season isn't an option either.
Points per game is a reasonable way to decide things. It's obviously far from ideal - but then there is a killer pandemic on the rampage, and a bit of perspective is needed. SO when you say "why aren't Wolves/Spurs/Arsenal, even Burnley/Palace/Everton allowed a fair chance of making 5th", the answer again is that there's a killer pandemic going around. There is no ideal way to do things. Basing things off 30 games is better than your suggestion of basing things off no games.
I'm not a Liverpool supporter as a matter of fact. But a blind man could see that they had the league won.Quote:
Originally Posted by Insidetherock
Points per game isn't ideal, but it's the best of a bad bunch. Given their massive lead it's definitive enough to give Liverpool their title, but for me the obvious weaknesses make it impossible to use it to relegate anyone. Contracts are going to start expiring soon, some players will be looking to retire in the summer etc. With no end in sight to the pandemic it won't be possible to end the season before then, and it won't be fair to attempt to bring it back after the agreed end date.
Sooner or later it's going to be called off, and when that time comes it's going to be lawyers at dawn unless nobody ends up feeling hard done by. The only way to square that circle is finding a way of allowing Leeds and WBA to come up without relegating anybody.
The premier league had 22 teams from 92 to 95 so it's feasible to do it - especially considering travel restrictions will mean we're unlikely to have much in the way of European or International football for a while
i personally think the best thing to do is finish the remaining games, whenever they can be played... get through the 38 games... have your winner and your top 4 and top 7 and bottom 3. the biggest stumbling block i can see is individual player's contract situations.
i'd abandon the european cup. when there's still 12 possible teams that can win something, it's hard for any one team to get too displeased, especially when the group stages are often a formality.
take a 4-6 week break or whatever you need and then do a curtailed season the next year, presumably no european football, no cups. just league games. should be able to re-unite everything in time for summer 2021 and the euros...
presumably the rest players are getting now should help avoid burnout over the next 18 months...
I would finish the season from September to Dec.
Then have a 19 game season from Jan - May. One game against each team as opposed to home and away
Game confirmed for October 8th: https://www.fai.ie/ireland/news/kenn...-uefa-fixtures
Can we go to the f**Ker!!!
Uefa will probably discuss that issue at the next Uefa meeting in july.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
As of now there's no word at all about attending Nations League in sept or the play offs in oct.
slovakia on the end of a 1-3 beating at home tonight against the czech rep
The same Czech team that were beaten last time out by what some people have said is a hopeless Bulgaria team.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne