Georgia V Republic of Ireland - Tbilisi - 12th October 2019 - Euro 2020 Qualifier

Mick doing what Mick does I suppose...content with a draw and trying to nick in the last 10 or 15 minutes, assuming we're not already losing by that stage. Georgia were comfortably the better team in the middle third; their players had much greater awareness and off the ball movement than ours, but thankfully for us they lacked any real quality in the final third.

Connolly simply has to get more game time against the Swiss on Tuesday. Question is whether McCarthy's stubborn nature will restrict him to another cameo...

Yep, Saipan disaster was a combination of two stubborn so and so's clashing.

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Originally Posted by brine3

Away match against Holland in Amsterdam in 2000. We drew 2-2 after being 2-0 up. I remember Mick congratulating the players on a great result at the final whistle. I remember Roy Keane being upset that we had dropped two points.

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I was there. After the heavily deflected Dutch equaliser they hammered us and only a late miracle tackle by debutant Dunne on Kluivert saved us from a devastating 3-2 defeat. There was nothing wrong with celebrating a draw that day, given how tense the last parts of the game were. Without that draw we wouldnt have qualified. So, hard to see what was wrong here. Keane was posturing as usual. At 0-2 it was a bad draw, at 2-2 it was a good draw.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I was there. After the heavily deflected Dutch equaliser they hammered us and only a late miracle tackle by debutant Dunne on Kluivert saved us from a devastating 3-2 defeat. There was nothing wrong with celebrating a draw that day, given how tense the last parts of the game were. Without that draw we wouldnt have qualified. So, hard to see what was wrong here. Keane was posturing as usual. At 0-2 it was a bad draw, at 2-2 it was a good draw.

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to be fair we should have won that game. was at it myself and the tv cameras failed to pick up a super chance missed by kilbane to put us 3-1 up just after the dutch scored. we created the much better chances that day.

Yep, I remember that chance. Was also at the match. Were you two also in the caged in away section enclosed by glass? That chance is up on Youtube. Quinn also hit the post early on I think.

On balance, I agree that the draw is worth being proud of. But we must remember that we got that draw because we were going for the win. And I chalk that part up to Roy Keane, who is one of the few Irish players in the past 30 years who refused to go along with the whole underdogs thing. The amount of time I remember him pressing far up the pitch and making interceptions that lead to Irish attacks, it's unreal.

True, and yes the KK chance was immediately after the first goal. It just winds me up this whole "Keane was a winner (which he was), Mick happy for a draw thing". I think it's an easy caricature and the context of the draw changed during the game. At 1 nil up on 80 mins last week I'd say NI would not have settled for the draw in Rotterdam. At 90 mins they certainly would have!

But is Mick conservative? Yes. Too conservative? I'd say yes to that too.

Does he have chance to take a risk tomorrow? I think he does and I'll be disappointed if he doesn't.

Mick talking yesterday about how he doesnt understand the negativity after the weekend is really bugging me. He is saying that we can still go and win in the next 2 games. He's right, we can still go and win but the best chance of getting a win was the Georgia game and he bottled it.

People are negative because they can see what was wrong and see that the were opportunities even throughout the game to change things and go for the win. We've been fed the same crap for years from Trap through O'Neill and now McCarthy. They are all ultra conservative managers who think dont lose first. There is a place for that but in games against inferior opposition you have to put your foot on their throat. That 2nd half annoyed the hell out of me especially. We could see that Georgia werent up to much and it still too him way too long to have a go.

Spot on Razor.

If we had beaten Georgia we had 1 foot in the Euro 2020 door.

So many poor performances, again. It’s the same players:

Coleman looks a shadow of the player he was before that injury.

McClean - I read somewhere he lost possession 26 or 27 times in that match!

Whelan - just a normal Whelan performance.

Robinson - has he had a good game for us?

I could go on. We will be going for the heroic 0-0 or 1-1 tomorrow night but if we don’t make the top 2 we are going to need to WIN TWO games (potentially Away).Tomorrow is a free hit IMO. Go out all guns blazing and try to play some football. DROP Whelan, McClean and Robinson.

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Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

Spot on Razor.

If we had beaten Georgia we had 1 foot in the Euro 2020 door.

So many poor performances, again. It’s the same players:

Coleman looks a shadow of the player he was before that injury.

McClean - I read somewhere he lost possession 26 or 27 times in that match!

Whelan - just a normal Whelan performance.

Robinson - has he had a good game for us?

I could go on. We will be going for the heroic 0-0 or 1-1 tomorrow night but if we don’t make the top 2 we are going to need to WIN TWO games (potentially Away).Tomorrow is a free hit IMO. Go out all guns blazing and try to play some football. DROP Whelan, McClean and Robinson.

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I actually dont think Whelan was one of the biggest problems the other night. There was so many times that I was screaming at the tv because Whelan had the ball and when he looked forward the other 2 midfielders were 30 or 40 yards away and not in any position to receive the ball. Not one time did I see Hourihan demanding the ball. He strolls around the pitch and he does a nice pass every once in a while that mainly looks good because of how he strikes the ball but he hides for 90 minutes. You could possibly have him in there if you had 2 other midfielders who were dominant but we just dont have that and he becomes a total passenger.

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Originally Posted by brine3

Seriously questioning if I want this team to qualify at this rate. We'll just go to the euros and stink the place out. There's no enjoyment in that

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We played one of the worst brands if football imaginable in 1990 and scored 2 goals. The one against the Dutch was one of the worst goals ever scored and had nothing to do with anything we did.

Enjoyable? I was only 7 but I can assure you there hasn't been another time like it in this country since. It was magical.

I know what you mean, but Euro 2012 change my view a bit? Obviously the draw did us no favours that year, but despite my best efforts to enjoy our involvement, I really didn't.

Maybe its a age thing? I was only slightly older than yourself in 1990 and I also didn't care at all about our style of football. I care more about style as I get older.

But most of all I want us to be competitive, and to learn lessons of the past. We rarely beat top sides in competitive matches. So we HAVE to max out the results against the 'weaker' teams. Saturday was unbelievably dire though. It's not just the negativity; we could barely pass or control the ball. Whatever it was it wasn't football. My 8 year old son got fed up with how many times I said "this is so poor" or words to that effect. Seems like I had it on repeat and didn't even realise.

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Originally Posted by Tipp Townie

I know what you mean, but Euro 2012 change my view a bit? Obviously the draw did us no favours that year, but despite my best efforts to enjoy our involvement, I really didn't.

Maybe its a age thing? I was only slightly older than yourself in 1990 and I also didn't care at all about our style of football. I care more about style as I get older.

But most of all I want us to be competitive, and to learn lessons of the past. We rarely beat top sides in competitive matches. So we HAVE to max out the results against the 'weaker' teams. Saturday was unbelievably dire though. It's not just the negativity; we could barely pass or control the ball. Whatever it was it wasn't football. My 8 year old son got fed up with how many times I said "this is so poor" or words to that effect. Seems like I had it on repeat and didn't even realise.

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We all want us to be competitive. We're just good enough that we can hope to qualify for these things the odd time and don't have to get our satisfaction from taking the odd scalp (like Georgia).

Our style is dreadful at times but we have to cut our cloth according to the players we have. For whatever reason we don't have a Liam Brady or even a Wes Hoolohan these days. We can't wish one into existence and until another player of that calibre emerges we have to be pragmatic.

We've been dealt a lucky break in that there are 2 players in this group who are capable of that sort of magic and it seems both are going to be unavailable to our opponents.

And yes Euro 2012 was traumatizing. But 2 of the teams in our group met in the final and the other were at the start of a golden era which would take them to the World Cup final. There was nothing anyone could have done to improve upon what we got out of that tournament. We were shafted by the draw. Simple as that.

We can’t put all the blame on McCarthy for Saturday. It’s not his fault players gave the ball away or couldn’t string more than two passes together or kicked the ball out of play when it was easier to make a pass to a team-mate.

McCarthy should’ve put Connolly on sooner and Byrne on in my opinion but the majority of the blame for me lies at the players’ feet

Yep, quite literally at their feet.

It does astonish me how players that are generally very competent at club level just go to pot playing for us.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Yep, quite literally at their feet.

It does astonish me how players that are generally very competent at club level just go to pot playing for us.

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i think we play at a slower pace than many of them are used to and i thought it was noticeable on sat how often we were pushed off the ball. I can remember very few 50/50s that we came out on top.

I thought the players lacked awareness. I lost count of the number of times they were dispossessed easily. Our midfielders almost surprised they were tackled so quickly and weren’t given time to do something fancy. Hourihane was biggest culprit, but all of them were guilty.

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Originally Posted by backstothewall

We all want us to be competitive. We're just good enough that we can hope to qualify for these things the odd time and don't have to get our satisfaction from taking the odd scalp (like Georgia).

Our style is dreadful at times but we have to cut our cloth according to the players we have. For whatever reason we don't have a Liam Brady or even a Wes Hoolohan these days. We can't wish one into existence and until another player of that calibre emerges we have to be pragmatic.

We've been dealt a lucky break in that there are 2 players in this group who are capable of that sort of magic and it seems both are going to be unavailable to our opponents.

And yes Euro 2012 was traumatizing. But 2 of the teams in our group met in the final and the other were at the start of a golden era which would take them to the World Cup final. There was nothing anyone could have done to improve upon what we got out of that tournament. We were shafted by the draw. Simple as that.

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Yeah, competitive was probably the wrong word. I meant within the 90 minutes. I want to at least see some energy and fight within the matches, but there have been several times recently when even that seems to be missing. It happens sometimes, it certainly happened under Jack too, but it's happening too much in recent years.

Style wise I agree, to a large extent. Yep we need to be pragmatic. But I do think there is a bit more we can do with the players we have.

Re. Euro 2012 - my point is, looking back on the harshness of the draw, or even being realistic back in 2012 leading into the tournament itself, didn't/doesn't make it any more enjoyable. I always thought i'd be able to put that to one side and enjoy a tournament anyway. But by and large I didn't. If we have to lose all three games, I can deal with it if we've given it a go and provided some entertainment and showed ourselves in a good light. But we just looked massively out of our depth, contributed almost nothing on the pitch, and were effectively eliminated as soon as Spain scored in the first minute of the second game.
So, returning to the original comment (apols, can't remember who by) about 'stinking out' Euro 2020, yeah I worry about that.
Although I suppose since Euro 2012 I'm more prepared for it... so IF we do qualify this time I'll be adjusting my expectations accordingly. Ie. getting even more drunk than usual.

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Originally Posted by Tipp Townie

Yeah, competitive was probably the wrong word. I meant within the 90 minutes. I want to at least see some energy and fight within the matches, but there have been several times recently when even that seems to be missing. It happens sometimes, it certainly happened under Jack too, but it's happening too much in recent years.

Style wise I agree, to a large extent. Yep we need to be pragmatic. But I do think there is a bit more we can do with the players we have.

Re. Euro 2012 - my point is, looking back on the harshness of the draw, or even being realistic back in 2012 leading into the tournament itself, didn't/doesn't make it any more enjoyable. I always thought i'd be able to put that to one side and enjoy a tournament anyway. But by and large I didn't. If we have to lose all three games, I can deal with it if we've given it a go and provided some entertainment and showed ourselves in a good light. But we just looked massively out of our depth, contributed almost nothing on the pitch, and were effectively eliminated as soon as Spain scored in the first minute of the second game.
So, returning to the original comment (apols, can't remember who by) about 'stinking out' Euro 2020, yeah I worry about that.
Although I suppose since Euro 2012 I'm more prepared for it... so IF we do qualify this time I'll be adjusting my expectations accordingly. Ie. getting even more drunk than usual.

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I can go along with most of that. Life has given us lemons so we have to make lemonade. But we maybe aren't squeezing quite as much juice as we could.

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Originally Posted by backstothewall

I can go along with most of that. Life has given us lemons so we have to make lemonade. But we maybe aren't squeezing quite as much juice as we could.

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Need to throw some caster sugar in

After all is said and done, failure to win in Georgia hasn't cost us anything really. We'd still need a win in November. Maybe it'd have allowed us to play for a draw in Geneva but I'm not sure that'd have changed anything.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

After all is said and done, failure to win in Georgia hasn't cost us anything really. We'd still need a win in November. Maybe it'd have allowed us to play for a draw in Geneva but I'm not sure that'd have changed anything.

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I’d rather be playing for the win against Denmark than playing for the draw

A win against Georgia and two draws which should have been more than within reach would have seen us through. Mick had to go for it against Georgia, and he failed miserably. That was the time to play the 3-5-2 and play it with the correct players.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

A win against Georgia and two draws which should have been more than within reach would have seen us through. Mick had to go for it against Georgia, and he failed miserably. That was the time to play the 3-5-2 and play it with the correct players.

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Agreed

We were rank in Georgia and the selection has to be questioned, definitely. But I still think it’s a bit revisionist to think that had we played for a draw in Geneva we’d have got it. The Swiss are comfortably a better side than us. We can only get 85th minute equalisers so often.

Had we got the draw in Geneva we could have had a "convenient" draw with Denmark that'd put us both through on 16pts versus Swiss 15.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Maybe it'd have allowed us to play for a draw in Geneva but I'm not sure that'd have changed anything.

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A casual observer would have had no way to tell that we weren't playing for a draw anyway, the way we were set up. Very hard to describe the Geneva performance as playing for a win, even with a 3-5-2 (or 5-3-2).

And even though we need to beat Denmark, we'll look like we're playing for a draw for the first 60-70 minutes i guess.

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