I tend to assume the spectacular shot stopping boosted his reputation, but that there was fire to that smoke: there was a reason the bigger clubs never came for him.
Printable View
I tend to assume the spectacular shot stopping boosted his reputation, but that there was fire to that smoke: there was a reason the bigger clubs never came for him.
Man City did sign him right after the money came into the club, but he had passed his peak at that stage.
Read his autobiography during the first lockdown, interesting read
Any highlights?Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
I don't really agree here. [Edit: I re-read your post, and see now what you were saying, and I do agree!]Quote:
Originally Posted by irishfan86
Goalkeepers' distribution has definitely become more important to how teams play but when Shay was at his peak Wenger bought flops like Wright, Shaban, Almunia. I just don't think Wenger had a good eye for a goalkeeper - it's that simple! After his initial successful spell when he integrated an established core with predominantly French young talent (which he had a head start over his peers in identifying) his transfer decisions were frequently poor. He was constrained by budget but at the same time he bought poor players and bought players with poor attitudes, or indulged players with poor attitudes already there. I remember arguing here that Kevin Doyle would have been an ideal signing for Arsenal, a step above Niklas Bendtner in terms of both ability and character but Wenger just kept indulging Bendtner. Then Nasri after that, and countless others. So in short, I think Wenger had his blindspots and tried to be cute in the market far too often, when in my opinion the players and personalities Arsenal needed at key times were hiding in plain sight - and were sometimes Irish. I think Richie Dunne could have had a good 2-3 years at Arsenal too, when Arsenal really had some iffy centre backs.
As an Arsenal fan for years, I'd have to concur with that. Loved the good times Wenger brought, but if you step back and analyse his whole contribution over the 20 years or so, he inherited a very strong back four.. and made them even better by convincing them to come off the sauce... identified brilliant, and cheap young French players like Viera, Anelka, Petit, Pires, Henry, Wiltord, who backboned a WC & EC winning side... but beyond 2006, when they were unlucky not to win the CL, he was never able to compete in the transfer market again.. with the stadium repayments, and then first Chelsea, then City raking in the State millions
But back to Collins.. still think he'd make a great centre half for Arsenal
There was definitely some parts to Shay Given’s game that the big clubs did Not fancy.Quote:
Originally Posted by John83
Big clubs will wait another couple of years once the price tag has probably tripled before looking at him most likely and thinking he's a decent player that lad. United wouldn't even spend the measly 12 to 15m for him even though CB is a position of concern for them for years now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Insidetherock
You probably wouldn’t want him learning from Man Utd’s centre backs ~ ~ Probably better to keep him away from them ! !Quote:
Originally Posted by JR89
the common line at the time was that he was seen, rightly or wrongly, as just too short to be a keeper at a "top" club. He never really let us down during his prime years possibly with the exception of declaring himself fit for Euro 2012 when he really wasn't and then playing pretty disastrously.Quote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
I read all the time about these super talent spotters but really Liverpool are the stand outs of the big clubs. They get far more right than wrong whereas others seem to get more wrong than right, but at the same time I think Klopp has a good habit of improving players. VVD was a stand out at Celtic and was overlooked by Wenger. Instead he went to Southampton. Leicester seem to recruit well.Quote:
Originally Posted by JR89
It was a bit strange that one of the Big Clubs did Not take a chance on him all the same. I reckon Newcastle would not have been all that hard to tempt with Harper as back up. It’s not as if a big club couldn’t have taken a chance on him for a season or two. They obviously didn’t think he was worth the gamble ! !Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
I agree with you. I think he was a fantastic keeper and worthy of a bigger platform than what he enjoyed at Newcastle (where, on the flip side, he is a bona fide club legend). But if you consider ManU, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool to be the big clubs during his time with Newcastle, he would have faced some stiff competition (Lehman, Cech, Van de Sar off the top of my head). Not bad being considered best of the rest.Quote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
Shay played in an FA Cup final and 61 times in Europe for Newcastle. I'm not sure how much of a bigger platform he was going to get. Newcastle in his peak were in and around the top 5 for a few years.
I could be wrong but I thought Burnley paid around 15 Million for him from Stoke. I suspect they'll be looking for 25 -30 million nowQuote:
Originally Posted by JR89
Think it was 12m with add ons that could bring it to 15m. Hopefully he has a relegation clause Maxwel Cornet in his contract and stops Burnley from pricing him out of any move if one was to happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
But also Almunia, Tim Howard, Taibi, and Dudek among many others. Some decent, some awful.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
Yeah, with the exception of Dudek though who was good and bad in equal parts, most of them didn’t last very long at their respective clubs and were quickly replaced with better. If your point is that he’d have done better than those you listed, then I’d agree.
For the most part, he was in competition with some of the best talent around to earn a move and starting spot with one of the top 4 back in the late 90’s/00’s. It was a tough spot and he was best of the rest really. Nothing to be sniffed at.
Given definitely had his weaknesses and looking back at it I can see why none of the big hitters ever went in for him. Firstly he was not a commanding keeper in terms of crosses, corners etc., Secondly he was not great with the ball at his feet, thirdly some of his wonder saves were simply a case of him making up for his lack of height, I often thought a 6 foot 3 or 6 foot 4 keeper would have made many of those saves with a lot less fuss but Given had a habit of making them look like world class saves because he was small for a keeper.
Put all that together and I think there were too many flaws for him ever to get a bigger move than he got. An excellent premier league standard keeper, no question, but not someone who was good enough to get a move to a Chelsea or Arsenal or whoever as a starter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Insidetherock
I doubt collins is going anywhere. Mee is gone now as well. burnley may need to balance the books but some of their wage issues are walking out the door. Collins and Long are their main CB pairing now which maybe is fine for the Championship... I Can't see them cashing in on collins if they have any aspirations of going back to the PL in the next 2 years.
We have a great habit on here of over estimating young players sometimes. Im often more guilty of it than most....Thinking Aaron Connolly was going to be the next Aguero was probably my worst ever take! But now I think the opposite might be happening with 2 of our young players, Bazunu and Collins.
I'll be absolutely shocked if someone doesn't snap up Collins. At 30 Million he would be a steal. The fact that at 20, with only 19 games in the Premiership all season, he got a nomination for player of the month. This is a lad with no experience, that we are always told is vital for a center half. He's huge, was mobile enough to play full back for a time at Stoke, was also captain of Stoke at the age of 18 which shows his leadership and hes also good on the ball.
I genuinely believe that barring injuries he will be 100% be a world class center half in the coming years. I wouldnt be shocked to see someone like Dortmund take him with their record of signing young players, but if hes playing in the Championship next season I think it is major scouting f'up by a lot of clubs.
Burnley fans think he'll be off, with or without a release clause. Some joking, or probably half joking with Burnley's finances that Vincent Kompany himself could get a game if he takes the job.Quote:
Originally Posted by dynamo kerry
Man City youngster that played with Anderlecht and Stoke last season, Taylor Jay Harwood-Bellis, is linked with a loan to Burnley and was also linked with a move to Celtic before that.
Completely agree with that and for the same reason he should be a nailed on regular starter for us at this stage. I know there is this affection for Duffy because of his obvious commitment to the cause and knack of getting goals during the period when we seemed to forget where the opposition net was, but (as soon as he's fit) Omabamdele Collins and Egan have to be our first choice back three.
O'Shea will be pushing Egan for that spot too as much as I love Egan. We forget how good O'Shea was before he got that injuryQuote:
Originally Posted by third policeman
How much of a loss was O’Shea to West Brom this season ~ ~ I say a Big Loss.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
Massive, for the five or six games before he got injured he was the highest rated defender in the league. Though West Brom had bigger problems namely having no midfleld being the top issue. Gardener-Hickman ended up starting a bunch of games in midfield and he was a RB they put in midfield because of suspensions I believe.Quote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
I rate all of O'Shea, Collins and Obamadele, but there's not need to dismiss Duffy and Egan yet. Duffy in particular had a decent season for a middling team in the Premiership - and if that sounds underwhelming, none of the younger lads have done it yet - and part of Ireland rediscovering where the net is has been his goals from corners. There's room to rotate them all as the younger three build up experience; Obamadele and O'Shea have had serious injuries this year too.Quote:
Originally Posted by third policeman
O'Sh. a coasted through Championship when WBA went back down. He had a few goals and all. That injury looked dreadful at the time too. Not on a par with Coleman v Wales but I haven't seen an injury worse since that. It's a testament to the lad that he came back before the season is over and maybe the time it took him getting up his levels implies that he came back a little early? Either way, I hope and I think he can do himself justice this window and that he starts off next season as well as the one just gone.
Interesting piece here on Collins, talking about his comfort in midfield and playing there at youth level.
He’s brilliant to have at the back but given how dire our midfield is at times (Cullen excepted), I wonder if it would be worth trying him out there? I appreciate some of us might be gun shy given the failed Christie experiment but I think this would be different:
https://www.the42.ie/nathan-collins-6-5791345-Jun2022/
Christie has a very different skillset. We've had good centre halves who could play midfield before, though not in a while. The bould Rice made that move at an older age than Collins only a few years back. Ideally, his club would do the experimenting, lowering the risk for us.
I always think with these situations - if we are lucky enough to produce a world class centre back can we not just play him as a centre back and get the best out of him that way?
Cullen is an excellent sitting midfielder and we have Coventry and Kilkenny coming through there also, so there's probably no need to move Collins anywhere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
Brings memories of Lawrenson and McGrath playing midfield for Ireland very well. Agree to play him in his CB role and get the best out of it. Imagine the meltdown if Kenny played him in midfield!
I wouldn't mind seeing him in a friendly game get some minutes there but more so to see could he fill in there in an emergency. Say Cullen goes off hurt late in the game and you've got no subs left so push Collins up and make it four at the back.
Do believe he should be that centre player in a back three going forward as he's much more comfortable on the ball. Played there for Burnley vs Spurs and received the ball on the halfway line and dribbled into the final third when he saw space to do it and played Cornet through on goals with a lovely pass.
https://youtu.be/dxGVrMHHFaQ
Wouldn't be trying to change him into a midfielder though and believe the same was said about Omobamidele after September's games.
A certain Argentinian poster was suggesting it of O'Shea more frequently than I was eating hot meals at one point.Quote:
Originally Posted by JR89
These ideas are tempting because we're relatively stacked at centre half. Still, I see no harm in speculating. A player's best position can evolve over time. I generally think it's best to see what their clubs do with them because they see much more of them and have time to experiment.
"Argentinian" your too kind ..he's from templeogue and girlfriend-lessQuote:
Originally Posted by John83
His IP address is Argentinian, so if it's a bit then he's really committed to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
Good interview with his father on Off The Ball. He basically admits that he always knew Nathan was special. Didn't say how special but just said that he would train years above in Cherry Orchard and never looked out of place. Speaks admiringly about his talent and determination and workrate. He's dumbfound! Also said that if he can't go to a match then he doesn't watch it on telly. So he couldn't go to Lodz, didn't watch the match and his phone was absolutely hopping after the goal but he didn't want to look at that either! Interesting insight into how they selected Stoke and that Ipswich was the other club they were looking at, even though everyone was in.
Interesting interview, you can see that Nathan has an advantage over other young players coming from a family that have been involved in football for so long and have seen the pitfalls first hand.
Sounds like he would have gone to Ipswich if they hadn't sacked Mick McCarthy. That was about 10 million quid Ipswich threw away there.
Yeah, great interview.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
Having a family member who's seen it/done it, before was a huge help all right. Plus was interesting to hear the part where he said Nathan played in teams that got hockeyed six and eight nil, and learned from those games. Put me in mind of so many teams who's coaches have no interest in a team that might get beat badly.
Definitely someone at Ipswich kicking themselves after hearing that
The interview is on YouTube
He's committed alright tbf!Quote:
Originally Posted by John83
His regularly drops character in his posts. Where its clear he is a native English speaker using Dublin slang.
If i had to guess he has manipulated his IP, he's living with his mum and likes dungeons & dragons