Just when we were all getting along so well it goes tits up.;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Calcio Jack
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Just when we were all getting along so well it goes tits up.;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Calcio Jack
Don’t worry his village will soon reclaim its idiot and we can get back to our early season excitement 😁Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingswood Rover
Bohs V Pats almost certain to sell out based on early sales.
I hope your comment was as firmly tongue in cheek as mine was!;) Though with some Cork fans such a comment would in all liklihood be deadly serious lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Calcio Jack
We need all clubs to be strong, solid home crowds, large travelling away support, with a competative league and teams playing a decent brand of football. The league will then thrive. European progression grows both credibility with the wider public and dare I say it among media circles. It seems to be the bar by which the league is judged irrespective of how things are domestically. Tbh its away crowds that both boost attendances above what home club attendances plateau at. There are a number of good eamples so far this season, the 4k+ at Inchicore v Rovers and the match in Tallaght v Dundalk. It is also a vocal away support that often gets a home crowd to be more vocal and generates the atmosphere that we want and need to attract the non hardcore support. That and a contentious refereeing decision or some fiesty action on the pitch.
It is a trend though that crowds generally start off well and then fall off, possibly as teams move out of contention as the league progresses but also during the summer months with holidays and the like. They then pick up again at the business end of the season for the top few teams or the visit of those teams to clubs lower down the table. Bohs, is an eample where crowds have been grown not purely based on the teams fortunes. As a probable controversial comment I think that Rovers and Cork fans are pretty fickle and see the biggest drop of in attendances if not competative. Sligo have probably the most impressive ability to attract consistantly good crowds no matter how they are doing. I've said before that Dundalk's hardcore support is up at 1800 now and and has grown from the 1st Division of about 1200-1500. Though not enough is being done imo to convert the floating fan to that hardcore type for the future if we are not league contenders. Derry have had a great boost with the work done on the Brandywell so there may be some truth in the 'build it and they will come'. Waterford are benefitting still from the novelty factor of top flight football. It also shows the importance of the likes of Harps getting things sorted in Stranrolar.
Even Bray in the 1st Division has broken the 1000 mark this season which they werent always doing with a side pushing for Europe. Disillusionment with owners can have a serious impact as we eperiences during the blip year at Dundalk in 2012 where crowds dropped in to the hundreds as the owner threatened all sorts of things like demolishing the YDC and selling the materials as scrap and fans knew that money was going out of the club that should have been personal expenses though in saying that with what that owner put in to the club I can understand why he would feel he should be getting something back and especially as other business interests were struggling (he was probably stung by the sudden surge in crowds and income 2013 and a bit of speculating accumulated albeit on a tight budget with a top manager worked rather than his cutting back to the bones). Rare that this strategy worked in LoI I know.
I really hope what is happening at Pats is maintained, from about 1200 or so at games the last few years to over 3000 not factoring in away support is a hell of a jump and is indicative of the feel good factor around the club with a new management team.
As an aside I am sad enough to have done a head count of the Waterford fans last Friday and there was 70-80 on the away terrace (I didnt bother with the stand as it was too hard to tell who were Waterford and who were home supporters as there wasnt the strict segregation you would get with other visiting clubs). My first thought when I saw the Waterford support was 100-150 so was surprised at the lower figure when counted and goes to show how hard it is to guesstimate crowds in general. We all have a tendancy to over estimate support. That said the official figure of 2800 in general people in the vicinity were questioning. There was undoubtedly 1000 in the stand and on the shed side, and there was definitely more than just 800 between the Town Terrace, standing in front of the stand and behind the goals. Addeding in what was probably about 100 Waterford fans between the stand and away terrace too. Highlights of the game hasnt changed my thinking on that. We definitely need substantial away support to boost our average gate. For that reason, and the reasons mentioned above, the visit of Rovers and Bohs in particular, Drogheda when in the same division and the recent key games with Cork are very welcome indeed. The level of visiting Derry support has dropped in recent years but hopefully there will be more that will travel this season. The TV footage picks up the support from the shed and then the cameras facing the stand also adds to the feeling of a well attended game. A big away support helps cover up the dreadful looking away section. With some terracing begind the town goal and getting rid of the grass bank would be a big improvement in the overall impression that can come across in tv footage.
Ideally, for Dundalk, a competative Shamrock Rovers, Bohs, Derry, Sligo, Drogheda, Pats and to a lesser extent Cork bar the business end of the season would suit Dundalk from an attendance point of view. Conversly Dundalk have a pretty healthy travelling support to most away games, there was a comment here by a Rovers fan that the recent game in Tallaght was the biggest away support seen - would that include Bohs even?
I dont think sttandances say a whole lot about an individual club, Shels when winning leagues has abysmal support, yet the quality of the product was good in a decent ground. It should never be a p1ssing match between supports on whose crowds are the best (or least worst), strong attendances should be lauded by all LoI fans and not something to give a kicking over. We all know where improved gates can happen and where the greatest potential for growth is, Rovers being top of the heap there with the facilities and local population. But, bar Bohs maybe, we could all be doing more, regardless of the FAIs indifference, and not be relying on winning silverware as the way to get people through the turnstiles only.
Good post from Nesta. One should taper crowd expectations and expect a normal drop off, like every other season. He makes a good point about large away traveling support at a number of games so far. With regards Rovers, currently, one, if the not top of the attendance charts so farm have a yearly average of c.2800. Always thought that should be a higher figure, given their catchment and now stadium, but perhaps it's already growing attendance wise, especially with the new stand creating a bit of a buzz, we shall wait and see. With regards Shels, there were so many matches back in the day, either live, or news reports, or (shudder) Eircom League Weekly where I wondered "Is there even a 1,000 at this game?", and comparing that with Dundalk's televised matches and attendances, things have definitely got better, attendance-wise. Speaking of Dundalk, I watched a bit of the match last Friday on that awful trackchamp camera stream, so the sound was an issue, but I thought there was a lot more than 2832 there. In fact I thought it was 3,832 that was called out, but as I said, picture AND sound were terrible. Overall, happy to see relatively big attendances so far, but it's likely to drop off somewhat and return to normal before too long. If the title race is interesting (stays interesting) for the duration of the season, it might be the best year for crowds across the League in quite some time.
Bohs numbers were restricted in the past due to space in the West stand and the need for segregation. Given they will have the whole east stand they could bring up to 2500 fans for our game on Easter Tuesday..
Given their recent success over rovers curiosity 're new South stand I think a big support is likely.....if it wasn't a Tuesday I would be expecting 6k +
http://hoganstand.com/Forum/Details/...TopicID=106675
Looking at the GAA attendance thread over on Hoganstand, shows we are doing very well!
Some of the crowds are shocking (counties play 4 Home League Games a year) and Cork one of the biggest are not even getting 3,500 for home games in Hurling!
2,500 on a Tuesday ? Our fans work 😁 shams brought about 8/900 to Dalymount early season. You believe we should get 3 times that on a Tuesday to Tallaght ?Quote:
Originally Posted by sbgawa
Not sure about that but Bohs could well break the away attendance for a LOI game that evening 1500 plus is possible. If we were going in the apposite direction to a ground of a similar standard we would bring a similar number, lots of Rovers fans wont go to Dalyer because of the away end and the poor view.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinobohs
Do the same Rovers fans refuse to go to Oriel, Sligo (you can’t see down sideline if your beside the big fences they have up) Finn Park and Pats as view in Sheds poor?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingswood Rover
Ah, I don't know. We're still a good bit off. The league isn't even the main competition in GAA. There's no direct equivalent in LOI but in terms of importance it's probably halfway between the League Cup and FAI Cup. It's spoken about as important for preparation for the championship. And we're miles off.Quote:
Originally Posted by dundalkfc10
I'd use GAA attendances as an indicator that match going fans are out there. I go to both and see a lot of the same faces at Bohs and Dublin games. If LOI top division could match GAA top division it would be amazing. Even if that meant splitting Dublin GAA attendances across the Dublin LOI clubs.
So there are approx. 1600 shams fans out there 'boycotting' Dalymount ? Wow, who knew ? Genuinely the first I (or I suspect anyone else) heard of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingswood Rover
Similarity I don’t think you’re exactly equating like for like. If we take the main participation sports as comparotors in a purely Irish sporting event context then you’ve got to surely base your comparison from the top down?Quote:
Originally Posted by bohsmug
If you’re doing that, then the top
Level for rugby is the national team, same for footie, but for gaa it’s ch/ship.
The next level down for rugby is different again because it’s the h/cup, for gaa it’s league and for us it’s the LoI.
Wouldn't say any rovers fans boycott dalymount, we sell out the des Kelly every time and used to bring at least double when we were in the Connaught street side.
Doubt bohs will be given more than 1000 anyway.
If any dundalk fans are still interested you had 798 in fans Tallaght according to the people in the ticket office at Rovers[FONT=arial, sans-serif][SIZE=2][COLOR=#6a6a6a].
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[QUOTE=Asterix;1994669]Wouldn't say any rovers fans boycott dalymount, we sell out the des Kelly every time and used to bring at least double when we were in the Connaught street side.
Doubt bohs will be given more than 1000 anyway.
If any dundalk fans are still interested you had 798 in fans Tallaght according to the people in the ticket office at Rovers[FONT=arial, sans-serif][SIZE=2][COLOR=#6a6a6a].
Didn't think so (RE Boycott) :D suspect we should be able to bring 1000 but difficult to say with it being a Tuesday night (I mean WTF ???). Always a great buzz, and both sets of fans enjoy each game but was surprised at the figure of 2,500, just seemed unrealistic for ANY LOI club on a Tuesday night. Honestly wish it were true !
If thats corrrect, 800 away fans at a LOI match is still a more than decent turn out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix
But the average LOI crowd is way below the average Division 1 crowd. This season's LOI attendance so far compares favourably with previous years LOI attendance but not with GAA. If anything it shows how much scope there is for improvement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
Quote:
Originally Posted by marinobohs
I did'nt mean that 2500 would be traveling i meant that there would be no restrictions, so "up to" that amount could be accomadated.....in other words more than would be needed!
I did also make the point that it was a tuesday so expectations would be lower. It is Easter Tuesday so at least the kids are off school so the large family contingent that come to Rovers matches might still come (those that arent away)
also re Dalymount , boycott is a strong word , id say more that some people just couldnt be bothered , if the new Dalymount is ever built with facilities etc i could easily see 3-500 more Rovers fans traveling over so 1300-1400 rather than the current 900 ish.
If the Dundalk support at 798 was repeated at each match it would be phenomenal,
I don't think your assertion on the ticket office numbers are pertinent or even particularly credible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix
Anyone who was in the away section that evening was aware of the incompetency around accommodating the numbers admitted.
It was clear well before kick-off that the number of seats allocated was too few for the visiting crowd, yet it still took 20 minutes into the match before the dangerous overcrowding was resolved. The solution of opening the unoccupied adjacent section was so simple to implement that it beggars belief that it took so long to action.
If there was a goal scored in that time (or any other major incident causing a crowd surge) the consequences of the overcrowding could have been serious.
I hope Shamrock Rovers, AGS and SDCC have learned from this and review the issues (maybe this also includes the ticket office ticket counting system)
any idea what this is? I think we brought 1200 (give or take) to Belfield a few weeks ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingswood Rover
Fair enough, although I would be surprised if even 3-500 fans were put off by Dalymount (certainly contrary to any shams fan I've ever spoken to). Don't think facilities play much of a part in attracting fans to Irelands biggest game :DQuote:
Originally Posted by sbgawa
Do you mean the Average GAA NFL Div 1? If you were to remove Dublin, GAA crowds are atrocious in the main. If you go below Div 1, well they're truly shocking.Quote:
Originally Posted by bohsmug
Even championship for one-off games outside of Dublin matches, it's embarassing. Just look at the "super-8s" last year.
The LoI has a bit to go, but if it could get to, hold and then look to build on a total matchday attendance of 20k, that would be a start. You'd be averaging around 4k per PD game, and then 1k per FD game, which is an approximation, but achievable. You don't get 20k supporters going to Ulster or Munster weekly games.
Btw, and I don't know if it was referenced elsewhere, but there is another angle to it when comparing the GAA, and it's that relatively speaking their support only has to be sporadic, yet even at an average of 1 game per calendar month a season, GAA fans still support in poor numbers (Div 1 sides excepted).
I don't really see how you can disregard NFL Division 1 if you're making any sort of comparison. You go lower down in LOI and it doesn't look good at all, similar to GAA. Anyway the best thing on that thread is the suggestion the GAA should start using the hashtag #GaelicfootballoneofgreatestfieldgamesinWorld as a promotional tool. Bit of a mouthful.
I agree it's great to see attendances coming up. I'm genuinely excited and hopeful that, even with the expected drop off, we achieve higher attendances than we have in recent memory. I do believe something is happening and LOI is starting to forge a more positive reputation. I'm starting to think social media may even be helping us in this regard. LOI doesn't have a huge marketing budget but your snapchats/instagrams/whatever will have people taking videos at matches and reminding people that there's live football on your doorstep. Previously you would have had to have actively chosen to watch LOI (either on telly or in person) to know anything about it. Nowadays people see little clips from friends on social media and it may just be peaking interests.
'Quote:
Originally Posted by marinobohs
combination of put off plus thats all our allocation is.
I'd agree in general i don't think bad facilities put off the hard core but i think better facilities bring families and floating supporters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezeikial
ive been estimating numbers in the East stand for years and id say 800 is about right (the netting seat kills at the front spread people out).
800 is a phenomenal traveling support.
The lack of scanning of tickets that was reported is irrelevant the tickets were sold and unless a lot of dundalk fans traveled without tickets and then queued up in the hope they could bunk in i don't know why the number admitted would be different to what was sold.
Again 800 is a phenomenal support and the highest by far i've seen in Tallight for a team outside Dublin.
Honestly, I think a lot of is to do with the realisation that the "product" the public are being fed from the UK is not what it is supposed to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by bohsmug
I really think the fact that there is a fundamental link now between the Senior team and the League here, that is improving the profile also.
Is there a record for away support in the league ? If so - who and when ? How far back does it go, as Derry were bringing thousands to even very ordinary first division games in the mid 1980s.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingswood Rover
The veracity of the 798 number, or how 'phenomenal' it may be, is hardly the most pertinent issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by sbgawa
It is the safety issue that occurred because of the large disparity between the number of seats allocated and the number of people admitted to that section. If the incompetency involved in this, exasperated by the incredibly slow response in relieving the dangerous overcrowding, was repeated in the future, it would only be a question of time before there would be serious consequences.
While some forum posters here may be in denial about what happened, I sincerely hope that the club and/or the safety authorities are not. Otherwise it calls into question their ability to safely host large away crowds.
Dalyer and Oriel are the grounds that i often hear fans say they will not go to. Pats behind the goal is crap as well but you have a decent chance of a stand ticket in Richmond if you are in early enough. Sligo is fine imo, Finn park tbh its a long time since i was there.Quote:
Originally Posted by dundalkfc10
What are you on about we only get 900 tickets. Let me clarify i am talking about (in the main) the current ground regs across the league. So if you go back to prior to Rovers going into Shed we would have taken 1500 plus to Dalyer. Look who cares about this my dick is bigger than your Dick garbage. Great attendances so far with some noteworthy work by clubs in their communities being a big contributor.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinobohs
I'm not in denial at all, dundalk fans were left standing for 20 minutes under cover of a nice roof. It's a shocking indictment that could easily have led to people having to bunch up into a three people for every 2 seats situation. Close shave....irony or what :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezeikial
You really think a 'nice roof' is in some way relevant?Quote:
Originally Posted by sbgawa
It was a safety issue not simply one of comfort. The aisles and stairways were packed with people trying to get in to a stand section that was already full.
You seem to have very little appreciation for the safety issues involved in stadium overcrowding, but then that's also what I thought about those responsible for the inertia and mismanagement on the night.
Most of the tragedies listed here involve the consequences of overcrowding or mismanagement of crowds:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catego...dium_disasters
Exaggerate much? If people had been pushed up against the orange netting anything could have happened :)
I've been googling but can't find any specific numbers for away support for Derry in the late 80s, but I'd suspect they were the biggest certainly over a season or two.
I suppose if you go back far enough into the 50s and 60s the crowds were far higher.
Rovers had a couple of thousand for the final game in bray in 2011....Given bray were taking tenners at the gate with no tickets anything is possible crowd wise :).
For a normal league match I'd say if bohs or pats get 1500 into the east stand it will b e a modern record.
Not you, sir, and I salute you for it! Good of you to take the lower case and be, ah, the bigger man.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingswood Rover
https://dw8stlw9qt0iz.cloudfront.net...216346cbe7.pngQuote:
Originally Posted by sbgawa
There's an awful lot of ****e posted on this site but I think claiming figures from a clubs official ticket office are neither relevant nor credible probably takes the biscuit.
It's actually impossible for the figure to not be relevant as they were posted just in case any Dundalk fans were interested in the official number and not in relation to any conversation that might have been going on in your own head Ez. Claiming they're not credible on the basis of not believing the poster is one thing but claiming they're not credible on the basis the ticket office itself is wrong is laughable, especially when the game was an all ticket event and the number is roughly what multiple estimates have put it at and what has been taken on here as the number.
Now if the conversation is now (back) on the issues of the night there's actually a few things you're leaving out Ez. Mainly that it may have taken 20 minutes to open the next section but a while before that the netting at the front of the stand started to get moved but it was decided due to the rain to stop that and see about opening the next section so that fans could stay dry, trying to keep away fans under shelter, if only every set of away fans could be treated so well.
Was the over crowding acceptable? No. It was a learning curve though and not deserving of being brought up again to such an extent out of nowhere.
You can pay into the Stand in Oriel and have an excellent view!Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingswood Rover
Not sure excellent is the word I'd use, better perhaps. I'd expect at least a clear view for €20.Quote:
Originally Posted by dundalkfc10
https://foot.ie/attachment.php?attachmentid=2777&stc=1
We should have a predict the crowd competition as a separate bonus point in the predictions league ( humble suggestion Sirs )....
I feel sure this would be a good thing for me.
Ah come on RH, under declaring ticket sales is as old as the hills and as much a key LoI business practice as spending money ye dont have hoping to make money. Maybe not in this case and I dont dispute the figures but it will be a while yet before I take all declared ticket sales and announced attendanes anywhere at face value. Its not that long ago that we were given cloakroom tickets at United Park eg. If there are hand held scanners used than people can slip through occasionally without their ticket scanned. That can be reconciled with ticket sales to some extent. I wasnt at the game so cant comment at the level of risk, precieved or real, but it is not unknown for crowd congestion entering league grounds. I hate when there is a delayed response to a developing situation (in general as Im aware of how things get very bad very quickly) even if there was no risk this time, the next time there could be with larger numbers if a proper debrief isnt done to improve decision making on the move - especially with Na Gardaí who will be dealing with huge crowds and need to act quickly to avert injury or worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by RathfarnhamHoop