Declan Rice

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Originally Posted by Cathalsmart

And saw how first hand how poison it is, according to Shane Supple the coaching is pathetic and the players arent happy as well.

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I read that Times article.
Supple doesn't say the camp is poisonous and the players aren't happy. I didn't get that at all from what he was saying.
If anything, I felt he was having a go at the modern day footballer

I think if a player is capped in a friendly, he should have to wait a couple of years before he can switch allegiance.
The player needs to be protected and the country needs to be protected from players straying at their will.

If the friendly rule was in, we could conceivably cap a load of young dual-nationality players to stop them going to another country in a hope they might develop into an international player in a few years, which is unfair to a player.

I hold out little hope for Rice but that little hope is that he proves me wrong.
Seems like his agent and his Club Owner have his ear at the moment.

"Even though Rice’s dad is Irish (as is Harry Kane’s) "

Actually that's a common misconception both Rice and Kane's dads were born and raised in England.

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Originally Posted by Diggs246

"Even though Rice’s dad is Irish (as is Harry Kane’s) "

Actually that's a common misconception both Rice and Kane's dads were born and raised in England.

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It's a common misconception that place of birth or where one spent their childhood has anything to do with Irish nationality law. Any child of an Ireland-born Irish parent is automatically an Irish citizen from birth, no matter where the child is born.

As for Rice, his father is Irish and his mother is English. I'm sure he's feeling torn now that he has to make a decision that will last for the rest of his career. I'm sure he'd like to play for both countries if he could.

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Originally Posted by brine3

It's a common misconception that place of birth or where one spent their childhood has anything to do with Irish nationality law. Any child of an Ireland-born Irish parent is automatically an Irish citizen from birth, no matter where the child is born.

As for Rice, his father is Irish and his mother is English. I'm sure he's feeling torn now that he has to make a decision that will last for the rest of his career. I'm sure he'd like to play for both countries if he could.

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Sorry I stated that' badly, they were born in England and raised in England, but of course they could feel 100% Irish

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Originally Posted by Cathalsmart

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/s...land-hz0d8pj9f

Who has the vivid imagination now?

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Still you.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Still you.

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If I was you I’d worry about my spelling before going after others.

Brian Kerr stirring the pot on TV3 just now, saying he doesn't think the uncertainty from Rice hasn't come from his agent, or the West Ham owners, or the England setup, and he hopes that nothing happened during Rice's experience with the senior squad so far.

Think that's really out of order from him, he's no idea what caused it, and now he's throwing something else into the mix just to cause trouble for the FAI.

DIY SOS is on TV3 now?

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

DIY SOS is on TV3 now?

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sorry, it was Be3, they're showing Champions League tonight.
Keith Andrews in the studio as well

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Brian Kerr stirring the pot on TV3 just now, saying he doesn't think the uncertainty from Rice hasn't come from his agent, or the West Ham owners, or the England setup, and he hopes that nothing happened during Rice's experience with the senior squad so far.

Think that's really out of order from him, he's no idea what caused it, and now he's throwing something else into the mix just to cause trouble for the FAI.

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He also brought up Keane's bust up with Arter & Walters both of whom are English born players - was Rice also involved?

The plot thickens....

There is no plot, just a bitter old man who blow his chance when he got the Irish job.

I said it when Grealish happened and I'll say it again, we should tie these players down by throwing them on for the last 30 seconds in a competitive game against minnows.

He could have played at the end of the 2-0 win Vs Moldova, he brought on Maguire for Long in the 85th ish minute of that game when we were already 2 up.

If we tie these players down we know they are stuck with us.

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Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo

I said it when Grealish happened and I'll say it again, we should tie these players down by throwing them on for the last 30 seconds in a competitive game against minnows.

He could have played at the end of the 2-0 win Vs Moldova, he brought on Maguire for Long in the 85th ish minute of that game when we were already 2 up.

If we tie these players down we know they are stuck with us.

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I don't agree, unless of course the player was totally convinced like McCarthy was and McClean as well. Tying players down for the sake of it is a manipulation and has led to many players landing in an international limbo and is the main reason why some of eligibility rules were relaxed.
In these matters of English born dual nationals, I'd trust O'Neill emphatically in regards to his sensitive attitude and his action,s as the way these matters should be handled.

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Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo

I said it when Grealish happened and I'll say it again, we should tie these players down by throwing them on for the last 30 seconds in a competitive game against minnows.

He could have played at the end of the 2-0 win Vs Moldova, he brought on Maguire for Long in the 85th ish minute of that game when we were already 2 up.

If we tie these players down we know they are stuck with us.

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I agree. We have to start getting cynical and securing players who show talent. As you say, at least then we will have them. For example, Wales have done it with Brooks, Wilson, Ampadu etc. At least they are smart. We are losing too many half decent players these days that would have made a big difference to us ie. Declan Rice, Jack Grealish, Michael Keane etc. Even Scotland secured McTominay. We need to wake up a bit.

Rice was with the U21s for the qualifiers against Norway and Israel at the time of the Moldova game. I don't think anyone was arguing at the time that Rice should have played in the senior game.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I called it like I called Jack grealish at the time, in this case knowing if England had a decent world cup and Southgate spoke to him in August he'd have his head turned. While the likes of geysir and Charlie Darwin were coming out with the 'hes ours to lose' burying their heads in the sand.

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After all these years posting on an internet forum I observe you have not evolved one iota in learning the essentials of ethical standards of debate, never mind the odd improvement in grammar. :)
If I had written anything so inane as 'hes ours to lose' I would have used an apostrophe. But i know that little inanity is your 100% own invention. AFAIR, I didn't write much in that thread.

Such threads when they are that delicate stage (will he, won't he) are emotive, most every supporter has a deeply held opinion on these matters because perhaps it touches on something more deep than just football talent and ability.
I do remember writing in the McCarthy thread, during that anxious pregnant pause and was confident in James' allegiance to Ireland, but my opinion on McCarthy was based on Tuff Paddy's excellent contributions way back, not on any long range mind reading.
It's simple for me in regards to Rice, if the player declares for England then that's the right decision for him, if on the other hand he continues with Ireland, than that's the right decision for him. We have no right to make that decision for him just because it serves our interests. Generally supporters don't like delay, i.e. a player taking time out to be sure, but if precedent has any value, precedent dictates that should the player eventually declare for Ireland, the supporters can quite rapidly get over their angst.

Kerr loves a good stir. To dismiss his agent and Southgate having an influence on the kid is bonkers. It must be because he heard Roy Keane shouting at someone.....that has changed his mind.

Ireland should leave him be now. Don’t go chasing. We don’t want to turn into a stalking jilted lover. I don’t want somebody who is dithering so 100% with Kevin Kilbane on this.

Rice has no guarantee he will walk into the England squad. Walker, Maguire & Stones not easily displaced. He has got to get back into the PL starting 11 for West Ham. Grealish was bound for superstardom when he turned his back on us and had a rocky road - took Steve Bruce to get the best out of him. Grass isn’t always greener.

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Originally Posted by geysir

After all these years posting on an internet forum I observe you have not evolved one iota in learning the essentials of ethical standards of debate, never mind the odd improvement in grammar. :)
If I had written anything so inane as 'hes ours to lose' I would have used an apostrophe. But i know that little inanity is your 100% own invention. AFAIR, I didn't write much in that thread.

Such threads when they are that delicate stage (will he, won't he) are emotive, most every supporter has a deeply held opinion on these matters because perhaps it touches on something more deep than just football talent and ability.
I do remember writing in the McCarthy thread, during that anxious pregnant pause and was confident in James' allegiance to Ireland, but my opinion on McCarthy was based on Tuff Paddy's excellent contributions way back, not on any long range mind reading.
It's simple for me in regards to Rice, if the player declares for England then that's the right decision for him, if on the other hand he continues with Ireland, than that's the right decision for him. We have no right to make that decision for him just because it serves our interests. Generally supporters don't like delay, i.e. a player taking time out to be sure, but if precedent has any value, precedent dictates that should the player eventually declare for Ireland, the supporters can quite rapidly get over their angst.

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:D :clap:

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Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

Rice has no guarantee he will walk into the England squad. Walker, Maguire & Stones not easily displaced.

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Given his versatility, he's probably competing with Henderson and Dier as much as those three. Cahill and Vardy have retired so that frees up two spots in the squad straight away.

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Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

Grealish was bound for superstardom when he turned his back on us and had a rocky road - took Steve Bruce to get the best out of him. Grass isn’t always greener.

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No, but he was pretty close to a big money move to Tottenham, which might have propelled him into the England picture all by itself. And he's still only 22.

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Originally Posted by Fixer82

I read that Times article.
Supple doesn't say the camp is poisonous and the players aren't happy. I didn't get that at all from what he was saying.
If anything, I felt he was having a go at the modern day footballer

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That's what I felt after reading it. A lot of the stuff he was complaining about - e.g. players leaving clothes to be washed outside their hotel room door - was the kind of thing Roy Keane complained that wasn't happening when he was a player.

If anything it highlighted the difference between a professional setup and his experiences in GAA

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I don’t want somebody who is dithering so 100% with Kevin Kilbane on this.

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The players who have spoken out so far are Kilbane, Duff and Doyle. All of them have two Irish parents. Rice has one Irish parent and one English parent.

It's easy for Kilbane, Duff and Doyle to preach to Rice, but they have no idea how Rice must be feeling at the moment.

They should shut up.

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Originally Posted by brine3

The players who have spoken out so far are Kilbane, Duff and Doyle. All of them have two Irish parents. Rice has one Irish parent and one English parent.

It's easy for Kilbane, Duff and Doyle to preach to Rice, but they have no idea how Rice must be feeling at the moment.

They should shut up.

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I have to agree with this. The backlash against his taking time out to decide (even if that is just a cover story) would be enough to put anyone off.

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Originally Posted by brine3

The players who have spoken out so far are Kilbane, Duff and Doyle. All of them have two Irish parents. Rice has one Irish parent and one English parent.

It's easy for Kilbane, Duff and Doyle to preach to Rice, but they have no idea how Rice must be feeling at the moment.

They should shut up.

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He is feeling ok, he played 90 minutes last night and played well.

Yeah he looked pretty good in the bits I say too. Granted it was kind of easy for him as Wimbledon had to retreat once they went a man down early on.

Which player was Duff talking about re singing English national anthem? Matt Holland?

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Originally Posted by geysir

After all these years posting on an internet forum I observe you have not evolved one iota in learning the essentials of ethical standards of debate, never mind the odd improvement in grammar. :)
If I had written anything so inane as 'hes ours to lose' I would have used an apostrophe. But i know that little inanity is your 100% own invention. AFAIR, I didn't write much in that thread.

Such threads when they are that delicate stage (will he, won't he) are emotive, most every supporter has a deeply held opinion on these matters because perhaps it touches on something more deep than just football talent and ability.
I do remember writing in the McCarthy thread, during that anxious pregnant pause and was confident in James' allegiance to Ireland, but my opinion on McCarthy was based on Tuff Paddy's excellent contributions way back, not on any long range mind reading.
It's simple for me in regards to Rice, if the player declares for England then that's the right decision for him, if on the other hand he continues with Ireland, than that's the right decision for him. We have no right to make that decision for him just because it serves our interests. Generally supporters don't like delay, i.e. a player taking time out to be sure, but if precedent has any value, precedent dictates that should the player eventually declare for Ireland, the supporters can quite rapidly get over their angst.

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I never mentioned anything about James McCarthy. However I did mention JG. Heres a couple of quotes from your posts in that thread. You ignored it purposely of course, if there is one thing you do have a lot of, its time, and you'd have responded with the subject at hand rather than shifting the goalposts and including others, as you'd have found out through your endless excavation of previous posts.

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" Grealish has made his decision and it's disrespectful not to trust a player's word and cap him competitively long before his time in order to bind him. "

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"That's resolved it, clarity has now been established and Grealish is settled on the track to our senior squad."

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I'd also note that your stance changed over time, you realised your short sightedness and got iffy. For anyone else, it was plain to see you got it badly wrong from the outset.

Unfortunately I have little time to spend on my posts. So missing an apostrophe here and there on a small screen is not a top priority of mine.
I pity you even more geysir than before, that you denigrate a post on such small matters, living in solitude, constant day and night must be affecting your mind, that your life now revolves around debates and time spent formulating posts on an internet forum.
My simplest suggestion, like I'd make to a 3 or 4 year old is get off the tablet/phone/486 and go outside, play, get dirty, have experiences. Enjoy life and live a little. Is it really that lonely up there? :(

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Originally Posted by Fixer82

Which player was Duff talking about re singing English national anthem? Matt Holland?

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yep it was Matt Holland

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Originally Posted by TrapAPony

Wales have done it with Brooks, Wilson, Ampadu etc. At least they are smart. We are losing too many half decent players these days that would have made a big difference to us ie. Declan Rice, Jack Grealish, Michael Keane etc. Even Scotland secured McTominay. We need to wake up a bit.

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Wales have named English born Man City youth player Matthew Smith (18) in their squad for their upcoming games - his only taste of senior football has been two games for Twente in the Dutch 2nd division. He's played for Wales through the age groups similar to Rice. He'll most likely be tied to Wales after the upcoming games.

Maybe we have to be more proactive in these situations anymore. The likes of O'Hara, Cullen & Conor Ronan should be cap-tied early before they make a breakthrough and England take notice.

Technically McTominay hasn't been secured by Scotland yet - but he'll most likely will be after their game with Albania next week

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Originally Posted by brine3

The players who have spoken out so far are Kilbane, Duff and Doyle. All of them have two Irish parents. Rice has one Irish parent and one English parent.

It's easy for Kilbane, Duff and Doyle to preach to Rice, but they have no idea how Rice must be feeling at the moment.

They should shut up.

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duff and doyle were asked their views in the media. should they have gone "no comment" or lied about their views?
I can fully understand kilbanes views.

why should they pussyfoot around the issue just in case the player concerned takes the hump? playing for your country is too important and the three ex-players you mention comments purely illustrate that.

what has often given us an edge in games we had no right to win is our players sheer bloody minded commitment to the cause. there is no room for a halfway house commitment in my view

Yes John, i agree, theres a lot of sentiment attached to caps, rightly so, but some take it far too serious like joining up with the Old IRA. Just throw a cap and ye have him. I'm not sure ye'd still be throwing them around willy nilly, but Grealish and Rice could probably have been handled that way. Not so sure any of the others have done anything or been close to first team premiership to warrant it. I also think MON can't be blamed here, he learnt from his poor handling of grealish and was much more proactive.

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

there is no room for a halfway house commitment in my view

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Why do you think Rice is not committed?

Like I said, he has an Irish father and English mother. He probably feels 100% committed to both.

The kind of one-nation nationalism that international football asks of players is not compatible with the globalised society we live in.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Yes John, i agree, theres a lot of sentiment attached to caps, rightly so, but some take it far to serious like joining up with the Old IRA. Just throw a cap and ye have him.

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Exactly. Fans expecting non-Irish lads nowadays to be bleeding green are in a fantasy world. Sure we are going to have a big issue anyway in a few years when some homegrown players of African/Eastern European descent begin to mull over playing for us or their parents countries. As you say cap them and secure them.

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Originally Posted by Diggs246

yep it was Matt Holland

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think it was in an FA Cup final if Im not mistaken

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

duff and doyle were asked their views in the media. should they have gone "no comment" or lied about their views?
I can fully understand kilbanes views.

why should they pussyfoot around the issue just in case the player concerned takes the hump? playing for your country is too important and the three ex-players you mention comments purely illustrate that.

what has often given us an edge in games we had no right to win is our players sheer bloody minded commitment to the cause. there is no room for a halfway house commitment in my view

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have to agree. no one mentioned Breen yet - he has been very balanced. apparently meyler has been onto him personally. I can imagine he is getting the full spectrum of contact from some pros - english and irish. I'm sure he knew it would get some people's backs up. cold light of day I think everyone would just like him to make up his mind and we can all move on.

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Originally Posted by Deckydee

think it was in an FA Cup final if Im not mistaken

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Holland wouldn't have played in an F.A. Cup Final. This is the game in question as far as I'm aware - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_F...play-off_Final

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

Holland wouldn't have played in an F.A. Cup Final. This is the game in question as far as I'm aware - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_F...play-off_Final

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the old st george's cross next to his name and all.

edit: i've edited it.

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

Holland wouldn't have played in an F.A. Cup Final. This is the game in question as far as I'm aware - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_F...play-off_Final

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It was a "play off" game

Wasn’t there something years ago with Andy O’Brien singing GSTQ whilst representing an English football league select against a Seria B select. Think he was still at Bradford at the time. Vague recollection of it.

They took our spuds and now want our rice. :(