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I don't even think Iceland are underdogs. I think they're a better team than England, and have been the whole tournament. Standard English mentality that Iceland would be an easy game. Never ceases to be hilarious when it all goes wrong.
ITV commentary in first half was comparing being behind to Iceland to being behind to San Marino.
At half time they were discussing dropping Hart for the quarter final.
I know it doesn't soften our own exit woe, if anything the opposite as we would probably beat Iceland, or certainly make a more credible fist of playing them, but wasn't that joyous to witness ? The arrogance in the lead up, unstinting and grotesque as ever in their ignorant dismissal of another nation & the leave vote, which has sickened me to the point I no longer want to live in this place. Thank you Iceland.
Merci.
I don't think we would "probably" beat Iceland.
That said, they did look ordinary enough in some of their group games, and there was an element of the notion that they got through because they had an easy group. They looked shaky in defence at times and i did think England would carve them open regularly. Which didn't happen obviously.
But it's not as if we've set the tournament alight, and I don't think we can say we'd "probably" have beaten any of the last 16.
From BBC's text commentary:
**** these people, seriously. That undeserved arrogance at every turn, based on what? A tournament win 60 years ago and two semis since. They deserve nothing but the scorn they endlessly invite. The humiliation isn't in losing to Iceland, a better team than England. The humiliation is the gutless, cowardly performance, the latest in a long line.Quote:
England are 10 minutes away from a humiliating exit.
Yes, I know Iceland beat the Netherlands. Yes, I know they held Portugal and have played well.
But try telling someone like my dad that England have lost a game of football to Iceland. He'd laugh in your face.
This is outstanding. Schteve McLaren talking out of his arse and then....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JZm74JLY6U#t=12
When you spot yourself on the big screen and want people to think you've got a plan…
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/LonelyUnsi...restricted.gif
Well I do, we'd do them. Not comfortably or anything disrespectful, but we'd edge them. IMOQuote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
That was easier than expected, thank you Rooney, Kane, Sterling, Wiltshire and last but not least, Joe Harte.
Great scenes downtown Reykjavik, about 15k to 20k watching the match together, the best gathering since the pots and pans protest in autumn of 2008. There were even fireworks post game which is kinda humorous, seeing as the midnight sun is at it's peak.
A few days pre game, a nice touch was provided by the Iceland FA towards the supporters group.
The Iceland national team supporters group is called Tolfun (the old name for the 12th man), They were a small group of 10 or so fans who came with team shirts and drums to the home games and made noise. Way back in 2011 Heimir the now joint manager and heir apparent, talked with them and said he would go to the pub beside the stadium where they met before games, that he would present the team sheet before anybody else knew and explain how they would be set up to play. He still does this. The idea was, we were in this together, this is our link and spread the word. From that grew the massed ranks of Tolfun The other day the press reported that original group of 10 had to come home after the group stages, no money and work duties, The iceland FA stepped in and offered them match tickets for the England game, a charter flight to Nice and accommodation.
I just think it's a comment which doesn't really fit in with your post about the English being disrespectful and arrogant towards Iceland.Quote:
Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke
You are seeing something that's simply not there, there is a world between believing Ireland would beat Iceland, probably, and the way Iceland were dismissed in the lead up by England, the media here, etc. Do you see ?Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
England yet to win a European championship knock out game over 90 mins. Staggering. The home of football.
Delighted for you Geysir - enjoy the party! I know you take a bit of a ribbing on here but that's the stuff of dreams.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
https://vine.co/v/iMPja9Hv52A
See you next time Dele.
That is fantastic. Hopefully they get to stay there for the next round also.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
I just don't think there's much a leap from you dismissing Iceland - a team who haven't yet lost a match at this tournament - as a team we'd probably beat, and the English media's mindset.Quote:
Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke
Certainly agree we'd have given Iceland a better game, and also that last night was quite funny for the reasons you note.
Player for player, the English players on paper are better. Most of the Icelanders play in a lower league and some even failed in the UK. Some of the English players are very average by any standard but then so are the Icelanders. So why did Iceland win? They had a plan, team spirit and no pressure. These things in themselves are usually not enough but England, other than give the ball to Sterling and hope his pace will get him beyond the defenders, seemed to be clueless. It was if they knew here was the perennial banana skin and they were going to fall. Rashford, who would not have any baggage, was brought on with only 5 minutes to go and immediately made a difference - 5 minutes when it was obvious that Harry Kane was having a stinker. Paralysis at all levels. Didn't they beat Iceland 6-1 or something like that the last time they played. They didn't even cope with the long throws very well when all and sundry knew this was one of the Icelanders' primary attacking tools. Fear gripped the English team the minute their opponents equalised and confidence vanished. I believe player for player they were good enough to beat Iceland but tactical blunders, poor management, and most of the fear of failure paralyzed the team and allowed Iceland to play their game comfortably and get a deserved win. The story of the tournament.
I also saw most of the Italy/Spanish game. What a performance by Italy who made Spain almost look as bad as England, especially in the first half. They are not afraid to throw men forward when required. Spain need to rebuild. Two excellent games.
Fair dues to Iceland. Very efficient execution of a simple and organised game plan.
The Icelanders bettered England in all aspects on the pitch and didn't drop the pace and intensity of their game one bit throughout the whole 95 minutes, it was total football executed on the pitch to perfection. The centre half scored the first, had the overhead kick then did that outrageous (Paul McGrath like) sliding tackle in the box.Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
Would the Icelandic goalie have been red carded under the "old" rule?
Italy were fantastic alright. They had everything that Spain lacked. Sad to see but Spain actually looked like a team that weren't too fussed about going home, no urgency or passion. That's the impression I got anyway. Italy v Germany is mouth watering now. Germany are due a competitive win against them but they'll get nothing easy. Thiago Motta's late booking was stupid in the extreme. They could be left short in there as De Rossi had come off earlier.Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
Work with a few Italian lads. All in bits yesterday, tears were flowing. Overcoming Spain, after 2012, meant a lot.
Well there is, a quantum one, to me. And I never dismissed them at all. I am in awe of their structures and progress over the last years and follow it with admiration. I just look at them and feel we would edge them presently, is all.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Anyway, one of my favourite non Ireland footy moments, easily. And that synchronised hand clap chant is beyond cool.
I'd only give us a 50/50 chance at best really. I think they would have done more to merit a favourites tag. Fairly crude recent statistics would suggest they score slightly more goals than us and maybe even defend a bit better too. Not much in it either way but we'd probably have a hard time breaking them down. What an opportunity it would have been though.
The RTÉ lads last night mentioned that England have only won six knock-out games in major competitions since winning the World Cup in 1966.
Paraguay (WC86 Last 16) 3-0
Belgium (WC90 Last 16) 1-0
Cameroon (WC90 Q/Final) 3-2
Spain (Euro 96 Q/Final) 0-0 (Pens 4-2)
Denmark (WC02 Last 16) 3-0
Ecuador (WC06 Last 16) 1-0
I loved his dive in the first half. "England are too honest to dive".Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
Worth noting 1966 was the first time England won a knock-out tie.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
Didn't know that, definitely worth noting!Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Unfortunately only Iceland succeeded in playing their part for that fantasy scenario :)Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
The 'hard to break down' tag is just a part of their game, just one of the features, personally I wouldn't (and you're not) over-egg it more than what it is, i.e. something they do just as well as other parts of their game. But they are harder to break down than Ireland.
Other differing factors from this tournament.
Fitness levels are better, the same starting 11 in each game and appear to be getting fitter.
Consistency of performance.
Absolute familiarity between the Iceland players themselves and with the management.
Confidence with the system, they have been settled in and perfecting the flexibility within their game for years, whether it's 4411 or 442 and make it look simple.
The default fault with Portugal, Austria and England was, despite all the evidence to the contrary, that Iceland had to up their game in order to hold their ground in their exalted company and ultimately they would not be able to sustain it.
Yeah, I was combining it with the fact that we're not very good at breaking teams down anyway. We don't score more than one goal against semi decent opposition very often. In the whole of this campaign we only managed to score two or more against Georgia (once) and Gibraltar. It makes it pretty difficult to win matches as were over-reliant on keeping clean sheets. Iceland, I see, managed more than one goal six times in qualification and twice more so far in this tournament, including multiple goals in matches against Czech Rep, Netherlands, Turkey, Austria and England.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
So is there something to be said for the much maligned 4-4-2 ?Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
There's everything to be said for it. When teams are set up not to counter it then it's a wall.Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
It's been proven a lot over the last 2-3 years.
Proper old school counter-attacking football is back baby!
The Italians had the wing back system off to a tee the other day. De Sciglio was very impressive left wing back. I've been kind of keeping an eye on him since that game in Craven Cottage when he looked brilliant. He seems to be in and out of the Milan side but looks really good any time I see him for Italy.
Interesting story of the Icelandic "clap" routine
http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakin...nt-742271.html
Jonathan Wilson was on Twitter saying that the enlarged format has reduced the standard of football, citing among other things, goals per game being down. But maybe it's the ebb and flow of football tactics, anti-possession now trumping possession?Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
Could well be. To see how stifled Spain have been while Germany stutter seems to indicate a certain change to a different brand of football.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Harry Kane v Iceland
https://twitter.com/LinoTreize/statu...90389898321920
I think that link might be broken, but it's such a good video it's worth digging another link out for it...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_2BF7l4fKM
Great compilation, though in fairness he did have a good first half volley saved.
I love how England respond to years of not being able to keep the ball by changing to dominating possession and doing nothing with it.
I also love how the FA now think that the solution to dominating possession but struggling to break down teams who put bodies behind the ball is Arsene Wenger.
Me? I think Andy Carroll would have made a difference. Seriously.
Stuttering to a facile 3-0 win over Slovakia having missed a penalty:)Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
It was pretty stuttery if you include ALL games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88