I've just realised I haven't even considered the possibility of Robbie Keane starting against Germany. Does anyone think he will be picked, and should he be picked?
I've just realised I haven't even considered the possibility of Robbie Keane starting against Germany. Does anyone think he will be picked, and should he be picked?
If Keane struggled to be in the game away to Georgia I think it's hard to see how he'll have any impact in Germany. He is on great form in MLS but his team are usually at least as good as the teams they play, usually better. There's going to be a lot of donkey work required in Germany and younger legs will be required I reckon, plus someone strong in the air. It's going to suit Long and/or Doyle more, with Murphy a wild card to play some role based on club form.
I probably sound like a broken record, but the Italy friendly set the scene for this game. Long, Hoolahan advance, McGeady and AN Other wide. Pilkington started in London but I'd go with McClean.
I have a feeling MON might pick McGeady in the free role rather than a wide role.
i don't think hoolahan has any real role to play in the bigger games. he gives the ball away too easily and is not able to win it back. for every 1 good ball there's a ball lost.
i'd start him against gibraltar and georgia home and come off the bench for scotland/poland for the last 30 mins if it's a tight game. he just is not good enough in my opinion - we can justify semi carrying robbie because of his goals. wes doesn't offer enough.
i get particularly riled by people who claim we should drop whelan in favour of hoolahan. don't even know where to start with that one.
Of all the criticisms I've heard of Hoolahan, I'd say giving the ball away too much would be at the very bottom. Then again, we live in a country where people criticise Robbie Keane for not scoring enough goals, so anything's possible.
i'd say i'm not alone but you'd probably want to ask norwich fans. googled it - sky sports classify his major weakness as not holding on to the ball:
http://www1.skysports.com/football/p...9/wes-hoolahan
that's probably based on statistics not some punter's view. in case of confusion i classify 'giving the ball away' to be equivalent to 'not holding on to the ball'.
edit: yes, those characteristics are based on stats. or anyone who isn't blinkered.
I can only base it on my own observations and in any game I've seen him in he's the tidiest player in possession on the pitch. When he gives it away, it's usually because he's attempting a risky pass around the opposition penalty area, which is his main function on the pitch.
The only flaws in otherwise the best analysis of our playing system on here, are that personally feel Whelan hasn't really done much in any Ireland game (exc.maybe Sweden in Stockholm*) in any game since we qualified for the Euros so unless we are really desperate, feel he no longer justifies a place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
Realise his role in the side, but he's just too slow and one-dimensional in the main, these last 3 years. And a total liabity in possession.
*He didn't play, doh. But backs-up my point. We do better without.
Ideally central midfield would be Gibson & McCarthy, with Meyler/Noble back-up IMO.
Assuming Hendrick would be considered more a left-sided player along with Quinn.
Realise you are rather more optimistic, but knowing and admired MO'N since his Celtic days, really don't see what he's going to produce with these players in terms of any dividend next Tuesday or wriggle-room, sadly. Those 6 games involving us, Alba & Polska are going to decide the also-rans...Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
If Germany drop one point v.us 3, it'll more because they've relaxed for some strange, unquantifiable reason which is probably inexplicable.
And next Tues, all other factors considered, is just too soon I reckon.
Whelan was injured for Stockholm. Why would Hendrick be considered a more left sided player?
Henrick is a right-sided player.
I think he has added an extra dimension to our play when he has got some game time. He wants to get on the ball and dictate play.Quote:
Originally Posted by zero
He can be guilty of giving up possession but he is usually doing so in a forward area.
As for not winning it back I think that is a fallacy as he has shown he is well able to do that side of the game as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
Good point about Whelan, as for Hendrick, pal did a piece for the Italy programme and my Derby mate said he's better on the left cutting in from midfield so going with what he says.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
From what I've seen of him with Derby (admittedly only 5 or 6 games), Hendrick plays more on the right side of the centre and rotates out wide right when another player comes in. Derby play with five central midfielders, though. I think they're all right-footed, so maybe he does push out on the left, but I'd imagine that'd be somewhat negated by having two-footed McGeady and left-footed Hoolahan and/or Quinn in the team.
he is more creative than our other midfielders, partially because he takes more risks but it's true he has a better eye for a through ball than our other options bar andy reid and stephen ireland (theoretical options included!).Quote:
Originally Posted by harry crumb
unfortunately (in my view) that's not enough. mourinho for example focuses very heavily on reclaiming possession (in any area of the pitch) and counter attacking with pace. this is what the germans do to great effect. it's pointless hoolahan having the ball in the final third unless the rest of the team comes up to support him - bringing players forward like that leaves a team defensively vulnerable so as soon as the opposition regains possession danger is imminent regardless of where on the park that happens. 2 or 3 passes and it's a goal scoring chance.
our best chance against germany in my view is to have 7/8 players sitting deep when we don't have the ball - which wll be probably 70% of the time - with one or two pacey players high up the pitch. germany play an incredibly high line and scotland caught them out on this more than once. i would go with mcgeady and long as those two.
Strictness is a flaw in Keane's make up, he has to accept that not everyone share his strict ideals, no point inQuote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
having a squad which gets to training on time but loses week in week out, yes disipline is important but I think
you can go over the top.
Remember we also have competent cover for McCarthy in Stephen Ward :sneakiness:.
I have never once heard anyone suggesting we drop Whelan in favour of Hoolahan. That'd be ridiculous.
I too would prefer Whelan be replaced but with McCarthy out and Meyler not getting games and probably starting RB anyway, I think he should start.
Zero, did you see Hoolahan against Italy? Probably the biggest compliment of his performance was from Paul O'Shea who thought he was rubbish but when he saw the game again on telly he changed his mind. I mean that just never happens :)
He was aggressive in pursuit of the ball, aggressive in his tackling, he even won an aerial duel with an Italian CB, and his use of the ball was excellent. He and Long seem to have a good understanding. I think he is by far our best user of the ball in our opponents' half - but he is an opposition half player, whereas someone like Whelan would typically see more of the ball in our own half, Gibson a bit more of both. My only worry is Hoolahan's club form, but he excelled at times for us last year and he wasn't playing at all.
AB, picking Hendrick on the left would be a Trap like decision :) Square peg, round hole. He's a central player, and an athletic one at that, something we lack.
For those who continue to bash Paul Green (he's less popular than David Drumm I feel) he was superb that night in Stockholm alongside JMcC, our best collective central midfield showing in a long long time. Trap then picked Whelan again against Austria a few days later.
Hear what you say about Hendrick, but see him a replacement/stand-in for Hoolahan, not a main central midfielder v. a team like Germany, or even Scotland?
Maybe as a sub...
He was great for 27 mins in slovakia as well too Stutts.
I do feel Hoolahan does concede possesion and for a team like Ireland lacking in pace, he leaves us susceptible to counter attacks or fast paced movements from the opposition half, teams can move the ball so quick now, that you cant afford to lose the ball anywhere in the field and not be left open - especially as I said with our lack of pace. I concede though he did well against Italy in that regard.
I've never seen or heard about Hendrick playing on the left. He actually came on wide right on Saturday, even that was unusual and he had little or no impact by all accounts. Will Hughes is left footed but also plays centrally, usually alongside Hendrick with a more deep lying midfield like Thorne or Eustace giving them both a licence to roam. Obviously on a team sheet Hendrick might be slightly right of centre but himself and Hughes are fully interchangeable. I don't think you could say that Derby play with five central midfielders to be honest, they generally have natural width on one side at least with Ward, Ibe or Dawkins. Johnny Russell (also left footed) tends to play a wider role than he would probably like, to leave Martin as the focal point in attack.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Hendrick and Hoolahan both started Stutts favourite game (v Italy) and both played exceptionally well, think Hendrick might have even got motm?
Coming back to that Stockhom game, I fully agree that it was probably our best midfield pairing and performance in a long time, since Paris anyway which was a bit of a one off. That Italian game was probably next on the list, second only because of it's friendly status. Both games... no Whelan. It's amazing what a difference a bit of mobility, energy and willingness to get on the ball can make. In the interest of balance, I suppose Whelan could point to our biggest capitulations being when he was out of the team also, notably the Germany 1-6.
Is Hendrick only coming back from injury - I thought he was, and that's why I hadn't given him much consideration for the German game. I've seen him less than Whelan McCarthy or Gibson, but I really rate McClaren as a coach, and this can only have helped Hendrick develop his game.
He always appears to have plenty of energy to spare in games, and he is very useful with the ball. He definitely has a big role to play for us this campaign, and in fact would be really suitable for the type of tactics I'd hope we'd employ against Germany which would require plenty of running.
He in theory would be better for us in a midfield two, rather than a midfield three whereby generally you have one sitting midfielder, and two distributors or offensive players.
Where I feel sorry for the management, and while acknowledging that every country has to contend with injuries, is that we've a select group that the managers appear to be allowing themselves to choose from, and invariably there is always 2/3 crucial injuries in critical parts of the team. Midfield is a prime example. I would love to see what the management do when we get a clean bill of health.
Arguably they have limited themselves to picking 2/3 from McCarthy, Whelan, Gibson, Hendrick, Quinn, Meyler and at a push Reid and Hoolahan. Gibson has had horrid luck with inopportune injuries. Club form has really killed momentum here. I think Gibson can be pivotal for us, his range of passing is better than any of our midfield options, he carries well, he has a good shot, and he is vocal. He isn't hugely mobile, but closes space really well, and is better at intercepting than outright tackling.
I would hope that Glenn Whelan will be phased out of being a first team starter by the end of this campaign, as I think in a two-man McCarthy and Gibson offer more, and in a three-man McCarthy Gibson and Hendrick has a nice look to it. Given that three in midfield is becoming almost essential if you play a team outside of Britain and Scandanavia, then it's always going to be three that the focus should be on.
While it's never too clever to be comparing midfield players to peers, those who have seen him such as Delorean and CD, would Hendrick be the Jordan Henderson prototype - athletic, good engine, and a combative game?
He's had two sub appearances for Derby and an U21 game. He wasn't out for very long so he's surely a starting possibility at least. Why do you think he would be better in a midfield two?
Edit- Only saw your question about the two Hendo's after posting. I suppose they're not a million miles apart in terms of box to box midfielders but I think Hendrick's primary role is an offensive one, whereas I think Henderson's is probably a bit more defensive i.e. don't leave poor Stevie G isolated but join in with the attack when you can. Henderson is definitely more combative I would say but Hendrick arguably has a bit more guile, but hard to compare when Henderson is playing at a vastly higher level.
Short interview here-
I think its funny how Hoolahan is criticised for giving the ball away whereas a collective failing of the whole team is giving the ball away a lot, and probably more so when he is not involved. What I like about him is his availability to receive balls. Without that we get our full backs playing 40 yard chips up the line and everyone else struggling to see a pass anywhere.
The standard argument - not made here yet - against Hoolahan is that old straw man "all of a sudden he's Lionel Messi, is he?". I want to make it clear that I don't think he's some supreme talent but I do think we are a better team when he plays because he's good at what he does.
Fear of giving the ball away is straight out of the Charlton and Trap manuals. No wonder our national style of play is repressed and riddled with neurosis.
Less than a year ago the Gillette Soccer Saturday guys to a man agreed that Hoolahan should start for Norwich and they specifically queried the notion that he's a luxury player. Given how badly Norwich did last season and given how infrequently he played, I'd bet anything Norwich fans wish he started more.
I'll try and not sound like I'm making it up. What I mean is a traditional Irish 2-man midfield, or traditional 4 man midfield such as the Keane-Kinsella axis, or Townsend-Keane, it sounds like he has what would be required. In a Trap 2-man midfield I don't think it would suit his discussed skillset.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
In a three man midfield with 1 sitting and 2 attackers, he might just be edged out. In a 3-man with 1 sitting, 1 scavenging/marauding and 1 playmaker, then he probably would fit like a glove. The issue there is whether any of those possibilities are to be employed by the management, and if so, fitting them with the right personnel.
A few examples:
(2 sitting/1 offensive) ------ (1 sitting/1 roving/1 offensive) --- (3 sitting, with 1 slightly more withdrawn)
----JMcC -- DG ---- or ---- JMcC ---- or --- DG -- JMcC -- JH/SQ ---
-------------------- ---- JH ----
--------Wes-------- ----Wes---
or
(base of 2 sitting and 1 more traditional central midfielding playmaker)
--- JMcC -- DM---or----JMcC --- JH ---
------ DG --------------- DG ----
I think the traditional 442 is redundant, so I won't waste anyone's time with that. The thing about the above formations, is they require good attacking fullbacks. We have 1 in Coleman, and I think we could have another in McClean. It also means that you can be liberal with the interpretation of your wide forwards. They can be more central, where I think McGeady could be most effective, and would allow McGeady, Hoolahan, and potentially Grealish in the same team.
Obviously, that is ignoring Whelan, Quinn (largely) and Meyler (almost totally). I think Wes' time may have come and gone tbh, and I feel sorry for him for that.
I'll finish with (all things being equal) what I think could be our best team (excluding centre-backs) for Euro 2016 were we to reach there. I take a huge liberty in Grealish, but I think the boy is going to become a superstar, I really do. Naturally if someone such as Harry Kane declared, it would be a huge fillup, or if Joe Mason pushes on a bit. I also think it would be really prudent to look at Lukas Jutkiewicz, I think he's the kind of workhorse up front we could do with from time to time, even moreso if the Kane angle doesn't bear fruit.<sorry real tangent there!>
--------------------Westwood------------------
----------------CB1 --------- CB2---------------
--Coleman-----------------------------McClean--
--------------------McCarthy--------------------
------------Gibson ------------ Hendrick---------
-------------McGeady-------Grealish------------
----------------------Long---------------------
I suppose the latter would be similar enough to the formation against Italy, with Meyler and Hendrick taking turns of sitting & scavenging/marauding and Hoolahan playmaking. The former is the role he plays very well for Derby. I wouldn't have an issue with him starting in either of those roles, but would worry slightly if he was in the more traditional two man midfield of a 4-4-2, but then I worry regardless of who's selected in that system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
Cyrus Christie, the right back of Derby on the verge of a call up according to Sky Sports
Pete O'Rourke of Sky Sports is making the claim: https://twitter.com/SkySportsPeteO/s...61080010129408Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapAPony
That's kind of come out of leftfield. I've never even heard of the guy before, although he did provide an assist for Jeff Hendrick on his Derby debut against Rotherham. Derby won the game 1-0. How does he qualify? Is he even eligible for us in Football Manager?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete O'Rourke
Christie won Coventry City's 'Young Player of the Year' award two years on the trot; for 2011-12 and 2012-13: http://www.coventrycity-mad.co.uk/ne...23/index.shtml
Brief write-up on him here: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...er-League.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian Durham
Was a bit if a talent at Coventry, and from memory, has represented England at underage level. While not probably ready yet for the senior side, I think he is one for the near future.
Edit: In fact he didn't represent England underage! Also a tall player at 6' 2, might yet develop into a very mobile CB.
A very, very new one on me also. I will note he's form Coventry so it's conceivable that he has an Irish grandparent on this basis, for sure.
It's interesting to note that Brian Lenihan was called in ahead of Christie so O'Neill isn't willing to let this type of player jump the queue that quickly ahead of an under-age stalwart like Lenihan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olé Olé
Isn't one of the facts that Lenihan hasn't actually played underage for Ireland?
Meanwhile Matt Doherty scratches his head in anguish.
http://www.thescore.ie/brian-lenihan...12935-Oct2014/Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
"“I’ve played with the U15s, U19s, U21s so I’m kind of used to an international setup.”
The Matt Doherty point from Stutts is true though!
He is injured currently, isn't he? He definitely should be seeing some action soon for us though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I wish the FAI/MON would see the value in B games. We really have a huge number of players that we know little about outside the current squad, while a number of the current squad that are persisted with just will never be good enough.
Cheers for that link Olé Olé, I don't know much about the kid, I thought I'd read somewhere that he hadn't featured underage. My bad.
Agreed.
Except most club managers would go rancid at the prospect of 'B' internationals...
Yet ano. reason why MO'N could/should have used these two fixtures more like 'training games'.
My Derby buddy thinks Christie is class. He says that he and many other Derby fans rate him higher than Andre Wisdom, who was their right back (successful loan spell from Liverpool) last season. Not as good as Coleman, obviously, but great backup.
I wouldn't feel too sorry for Matt, he knows what he has to do to make the step up to the senior squad.......move to Derby.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
So has he actually been called up yet or what's happening? Has he definitely played under-age for England? There's no mention of it on his Wiki (often, the profile will indicate if a player has played under-age internationals; being a Championship player, it's not as if he's all that obscure so such info should be readily available) and I can't find mention of England call-ups elsewhere having checked Google and some stats sites.
Roy will like him though. He doesn't suffer fools gladly...
http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/wp-co...2/15720876.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/...76_634x465.jpg
Good luck to the lad, someone who is truly honoured and thrilled to be in the senior Ireland squad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Olé Olé
Unlike the fake Paddys out there who only declare once England deem them not good enough.
Then again, the days of England being able to compete with the worlds elite are long gone, only a matter of time before they are picking loyd of players from outside the Premiership.
Read Barmy Brooking the FA gimp claiming that England could win the World Cup again with all the talent they have coming through.
He talks up the new elite St George's but this is just another Lilleshall and that too failed to deliver what was expected.
He also forgot to mention that only around 25% of the current Premiership squads contain English players.
Dream on!
One on of the links, it makes reference to another player being called up to this squad before Friday. Is it that Christie is this player, or are the two unrelated?
Or Ull...Quote:
Originally Posted by Wangball
If christie is being called up then surely he must have an irish passport? or if he doesnt make the day squad i assume he can still train.
Perhaps he could be moulded into a left back if he is that good.:)