The John Delaney Thread

A big fat Hmm to that. Ironically on the night of Thanksgiving, might well turn out to be a bit of a turkey...

A view on McDonnellgate from an IFA aficionado: http://ifaapollo.blogspot.co.uk/2014...ssing-utv.html

Interesting. That blogger comes across a bit chippy and narrow minded himself there, but as I see it:

1. The sectarian nature of the song is open to debate, as is its potential to offend.
2. The fact that it is debatable asks serious questions of JD's judgment
3. People who sing songs about irish independence presumably support democracy and self-expression. The FAI treatment of the fans' protest that same night contradicts those principles.
4. The cyber bullying appears to have been minor and whilst unforgivable it is clearly a smokescreen, a deflection tactic.
5. The whole episode reflects badly on Irish football and this stems from the FAI CEO deliberately seeking to elevate his public profile. The more recognisable you are the more likely your behaviour will be scrutinised.
6. Whilst the FAI has done some good things, the episode copperfastens the widespread belief that it is a badly run organisation whose senior figures close ranks to defend their own privileged positions from external threats.

Also, what was the background to the FAI statement? Were all of the BoM members in agreement? We're they even asked?

As Bonnie said ages back in the governance thread, we need a new FAI. It's that simple. I'd happy to explore means of instigating an Oireachtas inquiry or to pressurise the FAI into an external examination of their governance.

If anyone has any suggestions let me know. My guess is something as simple as opening a thread here with the wording of a petition calling for genuine reform and asking someone with some profile to retweet it. If it gets no attention, so be it.

Could anybody even set up a simple one page home page reformthefai.com with a facility to collect signatures and spread via FB and Twitter? Tets?

He seems to be very much the victim amongst any casual observers I've spoken to. "Jaysus, what's the world coming to? An Irish man can't even sing an Irish song in a pub anymore". They don't seem too fussed about the threatened legal action either. That's not my own view btw.

If you want to start a petition the best way to do it is change.org or avaaz.org.

The way they are set up means people can sign in via facebook, and when they put their x on the petition it appears on their timeline, which lets other like-minded people see that the petition exists.

Ok. If anyone wants to help draft a wording for a petition pm me with your private email address.

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

He seems to be very much the victim amongst any casual observers I've spoken to. "Jaysus, what's the world coming to? An Irish man can't even sing an Irish song in a pub anymore". They don't seem too fussed about the threatened legal action either. That's not my own view btw.

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I know, it's extraordinary. I think you can even be an avid RA head and lover of these songs and still appreciate how it was an ill judged thing to do.

I once saw John Delaney sing a rebel song in a multi storey car park. It was wrong on so many levels.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Ok. If anyone wants to help draft a wording for a petition pm me with your private email address.

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Start the ball rolling. You have mine sir.

Also here's my latest on it:
http://www.krank.ie/category/opinion...eme-presidium/

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Interesting. That blogger comes across a bit chippy and narrow minded himself there, but as I see it:

1. The sectarian nature of the song is open to debate, as is its potential to offend.
2. The fact that it is debatable asks serious questions of JD's judgment
3. People who sing songs about irish independence presumably support democracy and self-expression. The FAI treatment of the fans' protest that same night contradicts those principles.
4. The cyber bullying appears to have been minor and whilst unforgivable it is clearly a smokescreen, a deflection tactic.
5. The whole episode reflects badly on Irish football and this stems from the FAI CEO deliberately seeking to elevate his public profile. The more recognisable you are the more likely your behaviour will be scrutinised.
6. Whilst the FAI has done some good things, the episode copperfastens the widespread belief that it is a badly run organisation whose senior figures close ranks to defend their own privileged positions from external threats.

Also, what was the background to the FAI statement? Were all of the BoM members in agreement? We're they even asked?

As Bonnie said ages back in the governance thread, we need a new FAI. It's that simple. I'd happy to explore means of instigating an Oireachtas inquiry or to pressurise the FAI into an external examination of their governance.

If anyone has any suggestions let me know. My guess is something as simple as opening a thread here with the wording of a petition calling for genuine reform and asking someone with some profile to retweet it. If it gets no attention, so be it.

Could anybody even set up a simple one page home page reformthefai.com with a facility to collect signatures and spread via FB and Twitter? Tets?

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If it's only one page, the easiest thing to do is make a page on blogger.com

Keeping the seasonal theme going, in terms of the FAI changing, more chances of turkeys voting etc.

Good luck with any 'campaign', though expect to be ridiculed once their 'awesome' propaganda machine kicks in.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Interesting. That blogger comes across a bit chippy and narrow minded himself there

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Indeed, is it impossible for him to even remotely envisage a perspective from which this incident, whilst ill-judged, might not be "a good bit of plain old sectarianism"? Is he insinuating that it's a sectarian scandal simply because the song sung was explicitly republican? Such an assumption in itself might well border on the bigoted. He dismisses so blithely with unctuous sarcasm the possibility that other interpretations different from his own might exist or possess validity. He demonstrates a considerable lack of nuance in his loaded descriptions of those (of a republican hue) involved in the Troubles and the hunger strike. Anyone who uses simplified black-and-white or broad-brush terminology when it comes to a decades-long political conflict so complex just comes across as dogmatic to me. That's not to say it invalidates their opinion; I just take them a little less seriously.

Am I right to sense a needless and smarmy dose of sarcasm here too?:

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Originally Posted by IFA Apollo

During these heart felt interviews [Delaney] went on to tell us that it is not just him who sings songs about republican terrorists, but it is common place on the Republic of Ireland team bus. Yes, you picked that up right. The non-sectarian Republic of Ireland team routinely sing pro-IRA songs on their team bus. A team bus that contains none other than former Northern Ireland captain, Martin O’Neill.

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He goes on to quote a few anti-discriminatory/anti-harassment articles from the FAI's rulebook, but I'm not really sure why they would be relevant. Delaney hasn't harassed or discriminated against anyone.

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Originally Posted by IFA Apollo

Without wanting to second guess the plot, a quick flick to Rule 70, which is detailed below, should make for an interesting starting episode,

1. As the Governing Body of Association Football in Ireland, The Association is responsible for setting standards and values to apply throughout the game at every level. Football belongs to, and should be enjoyed by everyone equally. Our commitment is to confront and eliminate discrimination whether by reason of gender, sexual orientation, race, nationality, ethnic origin, colour, religion or disability.

2. The Association is an equal opportunities employer. They are committed to equality of opportunity within the organisation and to encouraging similar commitment for every organisation or individual acting within the game.

4. The FAI shall not tolerate sexual or racially-based harassment or other discriminatory behaviour, whether physical or verbal, and shall work to ensure that such behaviour is met with appropriate disciplinary action in whatever context it occurs.

5. The FAI is committed to the development of a programme of ongoing training and awareness –raising events and activities to promote the eradication of discrimination within its own organisation and, in the wider context within football as a whole.

Fans are already speculating whether Rule 103, which states ‘Any complaint made in writing may be investigated by the Disciplinary Regulations Officer (DRO) and may result in disciplinary sanction if not otherwise provided for’, will feature in any future scenes.

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Not sure why number 3 has been omitted...

There's also the stupid accusation of Delaney "pillaging" IFA youth squads "for their best players who attend mass on a Sunday". I don't think I need to respond to that. :)

I'm not sure why he feels UTV owe him an explanation as to why they haven't covered it either.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

1. The sectarian nature of the song is open to debate, as is its potential to offend.
2. The fact that it is debatable asks serious questions of JD's judgment
3. People who sing songs about irish independence presumably support democracy and self-expression. The FAI treatment of the fans' protest that same night contradicts those principles.
4. The cyber bullying appears to have been minor and whilst unforgivable it is clearly a smokescreen, a deflection tactic.
5. The whole episode reflects badly on Irish football and this stems from the FAI CEO deliberately seeking to elevate his public profile. The more recognisable you are the more likely your behaviour will be scrutinised.
6. Whilst the FAI has done some good things, the episode copperfastens the widespread belief that it is a badly run organisation whose senior figures close ranks to defend their own privileged positions from external threats.

Also, what was the background to the FAI statement? Were all of the BoM members in agreement? We're they even asked?

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Don't forget the calamitous denial, the attempted gagging of the Guardian, Telegraph and Balls.ie, the qualified "apology" that completely failed to grasp the actual issue here and the shifting of the blame on to the "sly" camera man (because the busy public house was a "private" setting).

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

He seems to be very much the victim amongst any casual observers I've spoken to. "Jaysus, what's the world coming to? An Irish man can't even sing an Irish song in a pub anymore". They don't seem too fussed about the threatened legal action either. That's not my own view btw.

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There's nothing wrong with a private Irish citizen singing and enjoying a political/republican/Irish song in a pub. It's not illegal. Anyone can do it. The distinction in Delaney's case is that he's the public face and CEO of the FAI; that invokes an extra duty to behave in a sensible, sensitive and responsible manner in public or in a manner that won't draw unnecessary negative attention to the association or give the media and others a golden opportunity to level accusations of political prejudice or wrongdoing. You wouldn't even catch Gerry Adams drunkenly singing rebel songs in a pub, because he's very careful, self-aware and he manages his public persona. I'd be surprised if he didn't enjoy such songs during private gatherings, but he knows he'd only provoke needless trouble by singing some of those that might be judged more contentious in public.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

To be fair, I never assumed she was a bimbo, I just inferred it from her exact words and behaviour.

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In fairness Charlie, I think she's far from a bimbo!

She has managed to turn this thing around to make all her Twitter follows think her poor Johnny Bear or whatever she calls him is the victim of a witch hunt. 'All he did was sing a ballad in a pub. It's PC gone made!!!'

It's not so much the song that is grating people it's his actions. He treatened the Guardian, Telegraph and Balls.ie with legal action and then denied it was him and now he's victim.' He loves his woman and his country. Is that a crime?!!!' That's just a taster of what the man is like. A grade cretin, creep and bell***!

In the words of Paul Weller 'The public gets what the public wants!'

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

There's nothing wrong with a private Irish citizen singing and enjoying a political/republican/Irish song in a pub. It's not illegal. Anyone can do it. The distinction in Delaney's case is that he's the public face and CEO of the FAI; that invokes an extra duty to behave in a sensible, sensitive and responsible manner in public or in a manner that won't draw unnecessary negative attention to the association or give the media and others a golden opportunity to level accusations of political prejudice or wrongdoing. You wouldn't even catch Gerry Adams drunkenly singing rebel songs in a pub, because he's very careful, self-aware and he manages his public persona. I'd be surprised if he didn't enjoy such songs during private gatherings, but he knows he'd only provoke needless trouble by singing some of those that might be judged more contentious in public.

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Couldn't agree more Danny.

Another blog piece here written yesterday that makes some good points and outlines a few of the genuine issues that have been swept under the carpet: https://amancanhavenogreaterlove.wor...e-real-issues/

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Originally Posted by withgodlygrace

The [FAI board's] statement was posted to the FAI website at approximately 10.45 last night. I assume the time was chosen to ensure they avoided tomorrow’s newspapers but that is largely irrelevant. It isn’t just a case of the FAI brushing a mess under their carpet, more a case of them not knowing what the mess is.They have cleaned out the rabbit hutch while completely ignoring the elephant in the room.

...

Well Mr Delaney may argue that he was singing amongst friends and is allowed to let off steam occasionally, I do not believe it is acceptable that a man in his position can be ever truly ‘off duty’. In fact, it was Mr. Delaney himself who pointed out that the job is ’24/7′. It also should be noted that this was not an ordinary night in a local bar in rural Waterford but post-match drinks, in a public house that is a mere stone’s throw away from the Aviva Stadium.

...

Mr. Fitzgerald also points out that the board are happy with how the CEO is running the association. I have no expertise in running any major organisation but had never heard of a CEO running any company or association single-handed.

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However, there are still other matters outstanding that have not been addressed. During the ‘Godfather of Irish football’s’ tenure the profile, UEFA coefficient and prize money of the FAI run national league, or the ‘problem child’, as he referred to it, have all dropped considerably. Many clubs lose money by simply entering a team in the league while others have had to drop out of senior football altogether during his reign. You may recall Monaghan United having to abandon Irish football’s Premiere Division during Euro 2012, around the time that the CEO was again making headlines for non football related matters.

Then there is the chaotic state of Irish schoolboy football where a complete lack of structure is severely hampering player development. The panacea prescribed for the ills of underage football a decade ago, the Emerging Talent programme, has made little difference. A quick glance at the birthplaces of players in our under 17 and under 19 national squads shows we are still overly reliant on our diaspora, essentially relying on other associations to develop our players. It seems a long time since Brian Kerr was bringing through a ‘golden generation’of Irish talent.

As I mentioned above I am no business expert so perhaps the FAI could explain to us laymen, the logic in offering such a lengthy contract extension to the man ‘running’ this operation. A man who in the past month has jeopardized the safety of Irish fans in Glasgow by refusing to accept responsibility on behalf of the FAI for ‘ticketgate’ and passing blame on to his Scottish counterparts. There has also been a failure to answer any of the questions put to Mr Delaney regarding ticket allocation, to go along with the heavy-handed stewarding at the USA match and the ‘singing in the Bath’ scandal.

One has to question why a football administrator has such a high-profile public persona, his peculiar search for adoration and celebrity through late night chat shows and that self promotional documentary that was so very Alan Partridge.

Apart from Irish Water due to their widespread media coverage, I don’t think I could name another CEO in the state and certainly not a member of any other sporting organisation.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Ok. If anyone wants to help draft a wording for a petition pm me with your private email address.

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I'd be happy to help where possible, although tets' talk of a mere one-page limit has me concerned! :p

Pretty sure you'll have my email address already. Lemme know if you need it again.

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Originally Posted by GypsyBlackCat

In fairness Charlie, I think she's far from a bimbo!

She has managed to turn this thing around to make all her Twitter follows think her poor Johnny Bear or whatever she calls him is the victim of a witch hunt. 'All he did was sing a ballad in a pub. It's PC gone made!!!'

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She's been "hounded off social media" now too, of course...

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Originally Posted by BonnieShels

Start the ball rolling. You have mine sir.

Also here's my latest on it:
http://www.krank.ie/category/opinion...eme-presidium/

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very good. I tried tweeting it but it didn't work.

What are the odds he'll be on The Late Late Show tonight?

The Late Late. That reminds me of when Peter Brooke had to resign due to pressure from unionists ecause Gaybo shoe-horned him into singing Oh My Darling Clementine, despite obvious shyness and reticence. It was the same day a IRA bomb killed innocent people.

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Originally Posted by The Fly

What are the odds he'll be on The Late Late Show tonight?

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Dressed as a cuddy teddy bear? lol

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Originally Posted by KK77

Dressed as a cuddy teddy bear? lol

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He doesn't need to dress up apparently.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

she works in PR - they're given extensive training on securing their social media accounts

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Anybody can put up a brass nameplate and call themselves a PR consultant. But – and stating a bias here: I’m a member – joining the PRII (https://www.prii.ie/ ) is one indicator of a PR person’s view of their role. There are educational or experience requirements to meet before applying, which weeds out those who call their work PR, but are primarily in puff and low-level promotions. Of course, a lot of good people don’t join and, as of today, EE isn’t listed as a member.

One thing PR professionals do is avoid becoming the story. The best have no public profile, but are known to every journalist in their field. I’ve taught PR/pol comms to over 1,000 students over c.15 years and afaik, only one became a media story (for writing the worst press release in Wales, iirc!)

Using cyberbullying as a smokescreen was risky, but clever: it confused the narrative. The hounding of a photogenic young businesswoman is a juicier story than the downplayed ‘man sings song’. (Incidentally, it’s not an approach I’d take or suggest – but them’s my ethics.)

Meanwhile the backlash against Emmet Malone smacks of orchestration, by whom I couldn’t say (Adam probably has a team of lawyers poring over this thread already!) but adept in managing communications - and that, along with the threats to the Guardian and balls.ie is disturbing.

It means that no journalist afaik has asked, or is likely to ask, the FAI’s sponsors, corporate partners and private backers if they approve of JD’s stewardship and are happy to continue their supporting. I’m sure they would be keen to distance themselves from songs about hungerstrikers. You won’t get regime change within the FAI, but without…?

I'd imagine several potential sponsors have been put off the FAI long before this episode. Association with a backward looking organisation that lurches from shambles to shambles isn't an alignment with most firms'' brand values. Removing JD won't be the solution to much unless a new CEO initiated a review of the organisation's structures.

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

There's nothing wrong with a private Irish citizen singing and enjoying a political/republican/Irish song in a pub. It's not illegal. Anyone can do it

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Many things are wrong, not all of which are illegal.

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You wouldn't even catch Gerry Adams drunkenly singing rebel songs in a pub, because he's very careful, self-aware and he manages his public persona. I'd be surprised if he didn't enjoy such songs during private gatherings, but he knows he'd only provoke needless trouble by singing some of those that might be judged more contentious in public

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That is a slur and you may expect a visit from Sinn Fein's lawyers. For 30 years or more Deputy Adams has consistently denied touching a drop, much less working in a licensed establishment.

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Originally Posted by Gather round

Many things are wrong, not all of which are illegal.

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Whilst that is true, I was just making clear it is neither inherently wrong nor illegal.

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That is a slur and you may expect a visit from Sinn Fein's lawyers. For 30 years or more Deputy Adams has consistently denied touching a drop, much less working in a licensed establishment.

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Ah, I got a sneaky suspicion that Adams was teetotal after I'd posted that. I should have checked it out to refresh the memory. Although you could say that his teetotalism is a big part of the reason why you won't find him drunkenly singing rebel songs in pubs. You know what I mean though; you wouldn't find even the Sinn Féin leadership - active republicans - clumsily setting themselves up for a fall like Delaney did.

In fairness, Grizzly doesn't need to be drunk to call some people ba5tards.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/poli...ader-1.2014416
But that's perhaps best left for another thread.

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Originally Posted by Eminence Grise

In fairness, Grizzly doesn't need to be drunk to call some people ba5tards.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/poli...ader-1.2014416
But that's perhaps best left for another thread.

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As is acknowledged though in the piece, that perceived lapse was seen as uncharacteristic of Adams. Meanwhile, Delaney being video-recorded whilst drunk, dishevelled and engaging in unprofessional, ill-judged or laddish antics is entirely in-character. It happens fairly regularly.

True. And one was the power-hungry fanatical leader of a cut-throat group, a state within a state, if you like, that sought to impose its will within its own community in a ruthless way.

The other was allegedly Chief of Staff of the IRA.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

very good. I tried tweeting it but it didn't work.

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Copy and Past my dear boy. I'll inform the powers that be that it didn't work however.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

The Late Late. That reminds me of when Peter Brooke had to resign due to pressure from unionists ecause Gaybo shoe-horned him into singing Oh My Darling Clementine, despite obvious shyness and reticence. It was the same day a IRA bomb killed innocent people.

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Imagine that, someone resigning whilst technically doing nothing wrong but something insensitive that causes offence. Mad!

Balderdash, the offence taken was because "Oh my Darling Clementine" was the popular song of a film bearing the same name, directed by John Forde, who was perceived as a republican terrorist propagandist film director.

Is Geysir's post for real or a caustic take on the response? I suspect it's the latter. Is that what they really said?

The guy was asked about his personal interests. He was put on the spot and said singing was one. Gaybo then said sing a song. He was completely flustered and couldn't even think of a song and under stress came up with a very common song he barely even knew how to sing. The unionists got the hump because they thought it was wrong because a NI Secretary was so insensitive as to enter into a sing song in the Republic when terrorists killed several of their own in NI. That's how I remember it anyway. I had no truck with his government but he seemed a decent enough humble guy who didn't do much wrong.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Is Geysir's post for real or a caustic take on the response? I suspect it's the latter. Is that what they really said?

The guy was asked about his personal interests. He was put on the spot and said singing was one. Gaybo then said sing a song. He was completely flustered and couldn't even think of a song and under stress came up with a very common song he barely even knew how to sing. The unionists got the hump because they thought it was wrong because a NI Secretary was so insensitive as to enter into a sing song in the Republic when terrorists killed several of their own in NI. That's how I remember it anyway. I had no truck with his government but he seemed a decent enough humble guy who didn't do much wrong.

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Pretty much how I read it too. Nice guy in one heck of a tough job at the time. Wonder what he made of it years after?

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Originally Posted by Gather round

Many things are wrong, not all of which are illegal.

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The irony being, is that you yourself has joined in such songs, in years gone by. When drink has been taken.
Much to the bemusement of all. And then a later African river fixation.

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That is a slur and you may expect a visit from Sinn Fein's lawyers. For 30 years or more Deputy Adams has consistently denied touching a drop, much less working in a licensed establishment.

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Correct, as you acknowledged when the great man acknowledged us, er, both. In the public domain. A number of years back.

And no drink had been taken...

The republican issue was obviously because it was an ode to an orange. Sheesh geysir.

But clementines can have a bitter orange flavour, maybe the offence taken by the brethren was that it was perceived that Brooke was parodying their orange order and their bitterness,

Nah, he was just another clueless Brit out of his comfort zone...

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

In what sense do you say that, Fly? Just interested in hearing why you think that. Is it that you think the opinions expressed here are "off-kilter" or is it that fewer posters from here tend to attend games as regularly as, say, a larger proportion of posters on YBIG?

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In so far as online forums are ever representative of the wider fan base, it's logical to assume that YBIG has greater claim to that mantle as it's centred around the national team and has a larger membership. Foot.ie's primary focus is the domestic league, and the majority of posts made in the Ireland subsection are by a group of around 10 to 15 regular contributors. The sample size is too small.

I don't visit YBIG that often but it does draw upon a much greater number of regular contributors.

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Originally Posted by The Fly

In so far as online forums are ever representative of the wider fan base, it's logical to assume that YBIG has greater claim to that mantle as it's centred around the national team and has a larger membership. Foot.ie's primary focus is the domestic league, and the majority of posts made in the Ireland subsection are by a group of around 10 to 15 regular contributors. The sample size is too small.

I don't visit YBIG that often but it does draw upon a much greater number of regular contributors.

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I'd accept that (although I think the national team has predominance over the domestic league here too), but I suspect neither are particularly representative of Irish football fans as a whole. My suspicion, based on experience paul o'shea-style, is that outside of the diehards Delaney is seen as a more benign figure and in many quarters as a really great guy. More to the point, within the small subsection of people who have real influence within Irish football (ie not us, nor LOI clubs), Delaney has a lot of support.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

I'd accept that (although I think the national team has predominance over the domestic league here too), but I suspect neither are particularly representative of Irish football fans as a whole.

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Really? I've only viewed the League and Club sections of the forum 3 or 4 times since I became a member so I can't attest to that at all. I'm only going by the statistics provided alongside each subsection, but certainly my impression has always been that they are more active than the International section.

I mostly agree with your latter point. It is hard to gauge how representative online forums are of a wider support base and it's probably only the likes of redcafe which can make such a claim or at least provide a narrative on certain issues.

Id love to meet the guy, perhaps Ardee cud help me set up a meeting.:p