im guessing you were very good at geography in schoolQuote:
Originally Posted by tricky_colour
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im guessing you were very good at geography in schoolQuote:
Originally Posted by tricky_colour
Germany were class.
Not sure why Doyle was on the left wing and Whelan on the right. Found that baffling.
But on the plus side, I think we can say Forde has nailed down the Number 1 spot and played very well. Kept the score way down.
Stokes I thought showed some nice play at times. We looked like we had the potential to counter attack, though we didn't take any of those chances.
We had more chances in the game than I think we did in both our last competitive matches put together.
We didn't hoof the ball up the pitch at every opportunity and at least looked like playing/wanting to play a bit of football at times.
I don't think it's all doom and gloom. The team is in a period of transition and tonight was a very tough test for players who have been playing under the same system for the last 5 years.
I think there are positives to be taken.
Really disappointed no subs were brought on though. What was that about? Nothing to lose by throwing on a player or two (McClean, Reid, Hoolahan, Long etc)
That makes him perfect for RTE so.Quote:
Originally Posted by harry crumb
I also can't stand Dunphy at this stage - nothing player and nothing analyst.
All the other RTE analysts are infected by his negativity and boring one dimensional analysis - ie Ireland are crap - every Irish manager is crap - most of the players are crap - we're a crap country and so on and so forth. It's just armchair analysis from people who failed as managers.
Giles I'd have time for. It's ironic that RTE have probably the best analyst in the British Isles in Giles and the worst in Dunphy. I had to laugh at the start of tonight's program when Bill O'Herily referred to Dunphy as an "expert".
As for the game tonight, 3-0 was a true reflection of a team of Bayern Munich, etc players as well as Ozil, probably the second best player in the world today against a team of lower EPL/Championship players. Andy Reid is supposed to be our most technically gifted player and yet he plays in the Championship.
People need to get real.
I think Martin O'Neill is just waiting for a club to come in for him in the EPL and the Irish job is a last resort. He's not dumb. He knows we don't have the talent, the FAI are a joke, and clowns like Dunphy will be calling for his head at half time of his first competitive match.
Brightest lad in the class :)Quote:
Originally Posted by back of the net
(sat under the light bulb)
Now that's just outright offensive.... :ambivalence:Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmet7
Well its a common term for describing these isles.
I have no problem rephrasing it as Ireland and Britain, to please the PC brigade.
Well, I'll forgive you this one transgression, given the rest made eminent sense.
;)
Thanks.
While I am on the anti Dunphy rant, did I hear correctly at the start of tonights program that he wouldn't have Forde in goals? Forde has been superb since stepping into Givens shoes - wasn't it Westwood that let in 6 the first time against Germany...Forde gave one of the best displays of an Irish goalkeeper I can remember tonight and was deserved man of the match. I'll give Dunphy the benefit of the doubt on this one but if he did say Forde shouldn't be in the team its one more example of his poor analysis.
A couple of years ago he called Gibson a nothing player which of course is bullsh*t. Gibson is not world class but he can be decent enough when he wants. A month ago Dunphy said it was wrong Gibson wasn't in the squad and Brady pulled him up on that one reminding him of what he said before. Before the game tonight Dunphy says he doesn't rate Gibson.
Dunphy is a complete clown - is there anyone else they can put on the panel or do we have to listen to his incoherant ramblings after every Irish game?
The panel always sound half cut at the end of games by the way or am I just imagining it.
Tonigth we saw the immediate future of Irish football. Robbie, Dunne and O'Shea have been great, but their time is over. While the tactics were certainly negative, the personnel will remain pretty much the same. It was great to see another forward get a chance and Stokes did pretty well. Under Trap he would never have got a chance and hopefully the new manager will take risks and build a squad, not just a team. We were outplayed, but I think there are positives for the future. The likes of Hoban, Duffy, Drennan and Madden should be given opportunties in next year's friendlies to help reinforce positions where we are a bit light in talent.
Sorry Lads, were there no subs?
Yes there were 3, the Germans made 3 subs as many of their lads were shattered chasing the Irish trying to get the ball,Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosby87
we didn't make any as our lads were so good they hardly broke sweat the whole match!!
PC brigade?:rolleyes: tut tut. Common from British people more like. British islands? Nah.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmet7
No wonder most people on the continent think Irish people are British!
Anyway no subs, thats crazy!:confused:
I agree with dr peepee in the team selection being over thought. I found it bizarre to be frank, even if there's some logic to putting bodies in the way of their full backs. Before I'm too critical of King though I suspect he was just trying to limit damage and stay compact from the off, with Tuesday night being the occasion to let the creative players on the pitch.
I found it very odd that with 20 / 25 mins to go not one of Reid, Hoolahan, Long, McGeady or Pilkington was considered.
Otherwise I agree with Fixer above. The positives for me were that our set pieces were good, the players are allowed to take risks with the ball, we did create some decent chances, we countered reasonably well at times and Forde did well. Stokes' radar was broken, but I think he showed some potential. I thought Doyle had a thankless task but still looked a cut above anything Sammon could do.
We were up against sheer quality so there was never going to be that much learnt. We'll have a much better idea after Tuesday and hopefully we'll start with a more positive selection and use the bench well.
rarely post, often read.
with dr peepee and stutts on this.
it was germany in fairness, anything other than a defeat would have been a gift from the gods.
i thought that king explained himself well enough in the interview on rte, admitted it was an attempt to contain them and try and nick a goal.
He didn't make a sub, which i found strange from an energy levels perspective, rather than "go out there andy and change the game"
There was a change in how we played, the ball was not hoofed every single time, and sometimes we got a few passes together.
baby steps people, baby steps.
Think Stokes is getting off a little lightly here for a rank-bad first half. Schoolboy panic ball led to the German first, hesitant when put in by Gibson and laughably caught off-side while looking down the defensive line during one of our more positive moves.
He improved a bit in the second - looked more composed - and did well to force Neuer into a couple of decent saves. Deserves more auditions and hopefully he'll be more clinical if he plays on Tuesday.
That's why I'm reluctant to be too critical as well. He's an underage manager given the job for two games. He's seen Germany win in the Aviva last year and is obviously aware of their undoubted talent. Though I don't agree with it, I suppose his rationale was damage limitation and staying compact. For his method, he must have seen some benefit in having Whelan on the right to cut out a threat as much as possible. He should have made some changes in fairness, Reid on the left, McGeady on the right and Long in attack. The fact he didn't suggests he'd have been happy with 2-0.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
There'll be no logic to fielding the same team on Tuesday night. With players having played the entire game and some experienced players to come back in, I'd imagine there will be changes. At this stage I'd imagine: Forde in goals. Coleman and Wilson full-backs. Dunne and O'Shea in central defence. Possibly Gibson and McCarthy being the midfield two in front of the back 4. I'd like to see Reid given a game on the left, I'm not sure who might get the attacking nod on the right. Hoolahan then playing off Keane. There's is no place for a cautious approach. As long as the team in set-up sound defensively, not like a disaster in Cyprus, attacking players need to be encouraged and given the opportunity from there.
I'd be more positive after the game than before.The team selection was over complicated and the performance suffered.
Considering that handicap, we did alright and we have plenty of room to improve on that performance.
Stokes made his mark and should be in the squad for future games.
he gave away the first goal and fluffed two chances that robbie would have stuck away. he also should have played in McCarthy earlier after about 10 mins when another chance went wasted. i cant understand where this view that he played well is coming from at allQuote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Agreed to an extent. His mistake for the first goal should have been more determination to atone for the error with some of his chances. Stokes's is quoted after the match as saying "I had a couple of split second decisions to make and they just didn't work for me." Ah, that's the difference between being a top striker and not. When he was playing in the Premier League he used to make similar bad decisions. On the offside in the first however, he was not offside. It was a bad call by the linesman.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
Stokes lost control of the ball, tried to recover the situation and ended up giving it away, Germany scored from a deflection otherwise the shot would have been saved, so yes Stokes made a mistake.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
I said he made a mark, some positives, virtually his first competivive game for us and it's against Germany.
Considering that, he did well and deserves more future call ups. It's curmudgeonly to focus on what he did wrong
For the home game Id like to see wison play centre half with clark to see if we could start to develop a game where the centre halves are confident to pass the ball to allow us avoid constant hoofing from the back. Without that the midfield constantly will get the ball facing their own goal under massive pressure. Dunne and o shea have tons of experience dont see the point of them been involved and delaney did well but he does not have that technical ability and age is against him
Id like coleman to play but to sharpen up on the basics then we have a super player. Id have McClean left full. Couple of reasons kelly is just a stop gap, and O brien is a right footer converted from midfield but doing a good defensive job at the Hammers. McClean is not good enough for a wide attacking role. Could his undoubted abilities be harnessed in to a left full?If not then O brien to be rewarded for battling back from such injuries
Id have Gibson and MCcarthy as our 2 sitting midfielders. Easy because they are head and shoulders above everyone else especially gibson who was excellent last night.
Wide I would have mcgeady and stokes. I think stokes has the technical ability and bit of pace to do a good job and be creative as well as been a goal threat and offering decent defensive cover unlike doyle last nite. Mcgeady for me is made for that role great technically can keep the ball decent pace and has done well defensively.
Id have reid behind the front man just because he is getting more game time than wes but really i would be delighted with either.In the next campaign id like to think brady might grow into the role
Id have long up front. can hold it up, pace to get in behind. needs to be more disciplined. Hopefully he can be a goal threat with good delivery from likes of coleman, mcclean, stokes and mcgeady
I've felt that McClean could be a left back too.
Agree with Geysir on Stokes. I saw enough in his performance to think there's something there. The dropping volley was a poor effort, but there's no way could anyone say Keane would have buried it. The chance when he rounded Neuer was very difficult, although he scored beautifully from a not dissimilar position against Motherwell last week. He was indeed onside that time. I joked with Paul O'Shea at the time that it was preceded by the best passage of play we had put together in 2 years.
I thought McCarthy was anonymous but maybe that was the drink, and Paul O 'Shea's company.
If you compare that to the Spanish mauling in Gdansk I'd say it was a notable improvement. Then we barely got into their half and had only one timid shot on goal all night. Yes, we were way inferior to Germany but we created far more than we did in Gdansk and also than in Stockholm and Austria, both nowhere near Germany's quality.
Let's hope for more a attack-minded selection on Tuesday and then we'll debate the ins and outs after that game.
I am not sure about McClean at full-back, he gives the team something different as an attacking player wide-midfield. He also always works hard helping out the defence. Gibson I think was the player who showed most passing ability last night. Sad to say that McCarthy had a poor match, can anyone justify selecting him ahead of G Whelan in midfield? It is good that people are getting a chance; so no complaints about Stokes last night, but we need to be honest as well and if he expects to start as a regular striker he should have scored last night. Planing to go to the game tuesday so hope King gives a few other players a start. Also Clark has to be one of the C/Bs from now on.
Yep, Clark is looking far more mature than last year and I think still has some improving in him.
Less of the doom and gloom lads.
Last night was a huge improvement on Trapp's team which played Germany not long ago and got destroyed, conceding twice as many goals.. at home.
Long way to go obviously, but all in all a positive result.
Well done Noel King!
I'm so glad Ardee Bhoy introduced me to this websiteQuote:
Originally Posted by texidub
http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/201...ttoni-already/
Anyway, despite King's GUBU selection I'm upbeat. I gave Trap the benefit of the doubt for four years. I'll at least do the same for Kinger for four days.
How about a Roy Evans style 3-5-2 with McGeady in the McManaman role and Coleman/McClean as Wingbacks...
Im all for an end to the negativity around the side, but to try and paint a 3-0 defeat against anyone as a 'positive result' is just ridiculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by texidub
I love 352 myself, but I don't see it happening.Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_peepee
Nobody is saying it is a positive result.Quote:
Originally Posted by carloz
What we are saying is there are positives to be taken.
We got destroyed last night but at least we played more football than we have in the past 5 years and tried to play the game.
We created more chances last night than we had against Sweden and Austria combined.
Stokes looked bright, Clark did well, Forde had a stormer. So there are positives. A bad result but a better performance than we have been used to
Actually i have to say I thought Delaney did well too in his first competitive international
:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
The comment I originally quoted said that it was a positive result
ha ha completely missed that. apologies.Quote:
Originally Posted by carloz
yeah it is no way a positive result.
3-0 might be a positive result for the Faroes against Germany but never for us
Volleying air is a Robbie Keane trademark, not sure he would have put away that ball that came off the bar any better than Stokes did.
As for the Stokes chance one-on-one against Neuer, if Robbie Keane was so good at putting those away at ease then he'd have done so against Lloris in Paris, we'd have gone to South Africa, and the Thierry handball would never have happened.
He's a great finisher, Robbie Keane, but let's not assign him mythical qualities.
Yep, Clark isn't great. He passes a ball straight to an onrushing midfielder at least once in every match. Did it in Sweden, did it in Dublin against Austria and did it last night.
We desperately need a brilliant young centre-back. For now I'd play Marc Wilson there.
How many mistakes a game does Wilson make?Quote:
Originally Posted by brine3
Maybe he'll miraculously get healed at CH where in theory he will be better than Clark.
Replace Clark with a theory? that sounds smart,
and meanwhile we can all join hands and wish upon the creation of the perfect centre half :)
At least Wilson's mistakes are made under pressure. Clark's can happen when he's not under pressure at all and are mostly due to brain farts.
That sounds exactly how a young Dunne used to be talked about. You could always expect one awful mistakeQuote:
Originally Posted by brine3
He was in a difficult spot for the first goal he was being closed down and didn't really have a safe outlet you have to give credit to Germany there. Also perhaps we could have realised this and remained more defensive but we were trying to break.Quote:
Originally Posted by legendz
And it was a bad decision by the linesman, which was all we needed when we were already out classed.
Maybe we should have hoofed earlier, there is a time to hoof.