Republic of Ireland V Sweden - Friday, 6th September 2013 - World Cup 2014 Qualifier

The sub headline was the highlight and was absolutely right, but WTF was half the rest of it about? Was he trying to show off to his old English teacher or something?

"An eerie sense of ethereal stasis envelops its being"

"For all the vituperative invective shot across Robbie Keane's tattooed bows"

"It would be particularly difficult to find a more tedious triptych of plodders on the European international scene"

"A modern nation schooled on the breathless anticipation and boundless courage of coaches and players in other codes should sniff indifferently at the international team"

And here was me thinking that Declan Kidney was derided for being negative and that rugby was struggling to recruit volunteers at local level.

This last point was an insult to the many hard working coaches and participants of grass roots and other levels of Irish football.

We are dull and unadventurous under Trap and many of us fear it will be our downfall. Irish fans are more interested in glamorous UK teams. The rest was just his latest dig at Irish football. Maybe it's just me, but I think he looks down on Keane for being a Tallaght kid rather than being from some leafy suburb and private school. Not just on the basis of this comment but when everything he writes about him is taken into account.

Fair point about the quotes you picked, but in terms of sentiment, I believe he has a point about Trap's reign.

Which is pretty much what I said!

ArdeeBhoy has been stating Kelly's key point far more directly all along (even allowing for superfluous punctualtion, italics and emoticons!). We're boring, unadventurous and hard to watch unless you're a loyal fan. It will cost us.

Another criticism: I think Kelly is actually wrong about Sweden and Austria being plodders. If they're plodders then who isn't apart from 6 or 7 elite countries in Europe? And the stuff about courageous heroes in other codes in a modern country…holy God as Miley would say.

I've said this umpteen times here before: if you have such a loathing of Irish football don't write about it. Kelly probably had a quick toss after re-reading his article. Flamboyant wordsmithery and a dig at football at the expense of his favoured sports and another dig at Keane's working class roots. David Kelly, you're no Con Houlihan. F off.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Which is pretty much what I said!

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Sorry, I missed your point because of your rant!:)

Is anyone else getting fed up with the constant talk of satisfaction if we get 4 points? 4 points means its not in our own hands, as we are not going to beat Germany, and sweden still have Germany at home.

We need 6 points its clear and simple. This talk of 4 points could see us end up getting 2 points, where we arent capable of beating Austria away and settle for a draw with Sweden. Its very worrying. If the whole team have this in the back of the mind when we hit the 80 min mark there wont be that urgency to press on for the win. Its also smacks of lack of confidence or belief in our capability in getting the 2 wins.

cant understand how what journalists write and say gets so much coverage here. their views are no more worthy than anyone else and most of them have agendas anyway so its hard to believe that even they themselves truly believe what they write.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Is anyone else getting fed up with the constant talk of satisfaction if we get 4 points? 4 points means its not in our own hands, as we are not going to beat Germany, and sweden still have Germany at home.

We need 6 points its clear and simple. This talk of 4 points could see us end up getting 2 points, where we arent capable of beating Austria away and settle for a draw with Sweden. Its very worrying. If the whole team have this in the back of the mind when we hit the 80 min mark there wont be that urgency to press on for the win. Its also smacks of lack of confidence or belief in our capability in getting the 2 wins.

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I'd be happy with 4 points though. Seriously.

And I am aware of the consequences for the group. It's just that I fear we won't even get 4 points and 4 points keeps us in it until October's games and probably lands a telling blow against a rival. I think the correct objective to state is "minimum 4 points".

Wearisome article alright. Only gets succinct in the last couple of lines when it's pointed out that an Ireland team sent out to win on friday would quite possibly do so. Not that I expect that to happen.

Dunno what the bookies are saying but another 0-0 (or 1-1) on Friday is probably what we're looking at, thereafter I'd say a Swedish win the next most likely.

ABs call of a couple of nil nils in these games is the most likely outcome - as much use to us as a motorbikes ashtray as that'd be. Hoping Germany put away Austria too.

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Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie

Wearisome article alright. Only gets succinct in the last couple of lines when it's pointed out that an Ireland team sent out to win on friday would quite possibly do so.

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That's one of the article's three actual football points, along with obvious-as-day assertions like 'Trapattoni iz conservative!' and 'Keane is, begrudgingly, our only goalscorer'.

Call me old-fashioned but I like football writers to actually talk about football. No actual analysis from Kelly, just banal observations combined with thesaurus vomit snark.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

David Kelly, you're no Con Houlihan. F off.

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Agreed.

Good point POS. We need wins. Four points is the minimum but, no matter what, we have to win on Friday. Our chances of getting a win under-the-gun in Austria, after just a point at home, would be negligible. Beat the Swedes and look to capitalise in Vienna.

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

cant understand how what journalists write and say gets so much coverage here. their views are no more worthy than anyone else and most of them have agendas anyway so its hard to believe that even they themselves truly believe what they write.

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The reason I posted this was because it validated much of what I feel about Irish football, and I think such articles generate debate, which is good as it is interesting to hear the opinions of others.

We need to be going in with the mentality of 6 points. We can and should beat Sweden and I don't believe Austria for one moment are a better side than us. The three of us are around equal level. Sweden and Austria have world class players which we don't, but we have the better team of players in my opinion. I just think that whatever about the Swedish game, we will not chase the Austrians and Trap would probably settle for 2 points if given the option now, rather than chase the games and go for 4/6 points. He would probably point to the Swedes going to Kazakhstan or Austria playing the Germans as games where we can gain points. The problem is our goal difference is awful and if the Swedes beat Kazakhstan and Austria, we are in the doghouse.

My hope is that Germany tonk Austria and there are a few yellows or a red for Austria which is very conceivable. Sweden may struggle in Kazakhstan so I wouldn't say they are a certainty to win there by any means.

Anyhow my predictions: :rolleyes:

Ireland 1 Sweden 1 (an awful game where Ireland start brightly and get an early goal. Sweden equalise, but are also very poor. The boos ring out around the Aviva).
Austria 0 Ireland 0 (Ireland play much better and are the better team. Long misses a late chance.The fans feel slightly deflated as they are left with the usual problem of looking at how other teams do.)
Germany 1 Ireland 0 (Ireland are dogged and tough to break down. The Germans really struggle, but get a goal in the 65th minute through Ozil. The Germans applaud a very brave Irish team off the park, as they get their world cup party in full swing).
Ireland 2 Kazakhstan 0 (Ireland need goals to sort out the goal difference, as they keep an eye on other games. Two goals before half-time and the Aviva is in good form. Unfortunately, no 2nd half goals come).

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I'd be happy with 4 points though. Seriously.

And I am aware of the consequences for the group. It's just that I fear we won't even get 4 points and 4 points keeps us in it until October's games and probably lands a telling blow against a rival. I think the correct objective to state is "minimum 4 points".

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Ya but thats missing my point. Talking of 4 points, will breed a sense of acceptance mentality that we can always look to the next game and/or harbour quite satisfaction that we can do the job further down the line. I dont think we can, I think this attitude could catch us out.

I will be happy with 4, but I don't think its the right approach to take for these two games. I worry that it could hinder us in actually getting those 4, but moreso from actually getting the full 6.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Ya but thats missing my point. Talking of 4 points, will breed a sense of acceptance mentality that we can always look to the next game and/or harbour quite satisfaction that we can do the job further down the line. I dont think we can, I think this attitude could catch us out.

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I agree. That's why I'd try not to think about four or six or the Austria game at all. Friday is must-win.

Ya, I wasnt on about you, I was on about Stutts.

Ya I think all they should be thinking about is Sweden is a play-off game for the world cup, if we don't win we are gone.

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Originally Posted by gastric

The reason I posted this was because it validated much of what I feel about Irish football, and I think such articles generate debate, which is good as it is interesting to hear the opinions of others.

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i think most of the reasonable posts here generate far better informed debate than the usual stuff most of the Irish football writers come up with. there is nothing debate generating by writing what we've all heard a 100 times before. I think some fans like to point to these predictable articles and say "there you go, the great dave kelly (or whoever) says the same thing so I must be right"

Yeah Stutts, enough of that loser's mentality and take a leaf out of Paul's abundant positivity which he exudes with every breadth :)

In the past we have done okay under pressure with Trap.
The 3 points is an obvious target, there will be no settling for a draw should the score be even in the 2nd half, hoping for an escape in Austria.
A likely draw will come from not converting enough of our chances and then not holding on to a lead.
Playing Wes in a 5 man midfield would put in an unpredictable element that might upset the Swedes. Seeing as McGeady is missing Trap might see a place for Wes in a midfield of 5
Walters, Whelan, McCarthy, Hoolahan, McLean/Brady.

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

i think most of the reasonable posts here generate far better informed debate than the usual stuff most of the Irish football writers come up with. there is nothing debate generating by writing what we've all heard a 100 times before. I think some fans like to point to these predictable articles and say "there you go, the great dave kelly (or whoever) says the same thing so I must be right"

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Ya, when you go to your mates and say the great paul_oshea said it so I must be right, it doesn't have the same effect as a well known journalist.

I did say the right approach is to target "minimum 4 points". That's more ambitious than simply aiming for 4 points and not as cavalier as saying we need 6!

Did anyone see this from the other day? Irish fan living in Oz buys the rights to the game:
http://rs.442.com.au/forums/default....osts&m=1752892

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Originally Posted by Crosby87

Did anyone see this from the other day? Irish fan living in Oz buys the rights to the game:
http://rs.442.com.au/forums/default....osts&m=1752892

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It was mentioned a few pages back.

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Originally Posted by David Kelly

Of course, Ireland cannot possibly claim any nod towards vaulting ambition. The most heightened activity around the camp this week was focused on whether James McCarthy, would swap life in the Championship for a prospective struggle in the relegation zone.

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I'd be very surprised if McCarthy is fighting a relegation battle come the end of the season. I know it was under Moyes, but Everton have been a top-half club for the past couple of seasons, if I'm not mistaken. They've made a decent start to this season (no losses out of three) and certainly don't resemble prospective relegation fodder.

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Originally Posted by gastric

Would have to say that Kelly makes some very valid points in this article.


http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...-29549849.html

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I've never seen the words vituperative nor quixotic in a football article before. Has David Kelly been using a thesaurus?!

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Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

I've never seen the words vituperative nor quixotic in a football article before. Has David Kelly been using a thesaurus?!

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Are they alcoholic drinks or some sort of pills or something?

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Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

I've never seen the words vituperative nor quixotic in a football article before. Has David Kelly been using a thesaurus?!

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No he swallowed one!

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

It was mentioned a few pages back.



I'd be very surprised if McCarthy is fighting a relegation battle come the end of the season. I know it was under Moyes, but Everton have been a top-half club for the past couple of seasons, if I'm not mistaken. They've made a decent start to this season (no losses out of three) and certainly don't resemble prospective relegation fodder.

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Is Kelly a bitter Liverpool fan? Everton have finished above Liverpool for the last 2 seasons and have been top 8 in 9 of the last 11 seasons. They are also 1 of only 3 teams unbeaten in the current season :p and have a far superior squad compared to last season.

It remains to be seen how far Martinez can take them. The Moyes myth is surely nearly gone by now.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Which is pretty much what I said!

ArdeeBhoy has been stating Kelly's key point far more directly all along (even allowing for superfluous punctualtion, italics and emoticons!). We're boring, unadventurous and hard to watch unless you're a loyal fan. It will cost us.

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Tbf many of us do that!
;)

Seriously though, even am going to both games genuinely believe we have no chance of winning either.
Austria at a pinch but firmly believe we're not good enough. Sorry.

And whoever comes 2nd FIFA will 'arrange' they miss out anyways.

Tis a shame but sh*t happens;maybe 2026...
:(

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Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

Tbf many of us do that!
;)

Seriously though, even am going to both games genuinely believe we have no chance of winning either.
Austria at a pinch but firmly believe we're not good enough. Sorry.

And whoever comes 2nd FIFA will 'arrange' they miss out anyways.

Tis a shame but sh*t happens;maybe 2026...
:(

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On a slightly different note (but related to the torture I'm prepared to put myself through) but does anyone know where the game might be streamed live on Friday?

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Originally Posted by mark12345

On a slightly different note (but related to the torture I'm prepared to put myself through) but does anyone know where the game might be streamed live on Friday?

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Plenty of links will appear on these sites before the game:

http://www.footballstreaming.info/st...nks/index.html
http://www.lshunter.net/
http://www.wiziwig.tv/competition.ph...pline=football

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

Plenty of links will appear on these sites before the game:

http://www.footballstreaming.info/st...nks/index.html
http://www.lshunter.net/
http://www.wiziwig.tv/competition.ph...pline=football

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Cheers Danny.

We'll show up and do our best. My expectations are low. Draw with Sweden and likely lose in Austria and that's that. Start planning for the every expanding Euros in 2016 with a new coach and new staff. Hope some new players continue to develop and start again. Sure it's part of the fun of it all.

Is the game likely to sell out? I had a look on Ticketmaster and there were still loads available all around the ground. One of the lads I'm travelling with even has two spares.

Def not a sell out. FAI have been emailing block bookers offering extra tickets.

After watching that Dublin-Kerry match have to admit that it is hard to get hyped up for this one.

Then eff off to a GAA forum. I enjoyed watching the Dubs win but would have got over it soon enough if they lost. I'll be ecstatic if we win the football and gutted if we lose. It's a September international in a neck and neck group, against a regular qualifier but a team we could beat. If you can't get excited by this then Trap really has caused a lot of damage.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Then eff off to a GAA forum. I enjoyed watching the Dubs win but would have got over it soon enough if they lost. I'll be ecstatic if we win the football and gutted if we lose. It's a September international in a neck and neck group, against a regular qualifier but a team we could beat. If you can't get excited by this then Trap really has caused a lot of damage.

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And he has. Not that I entirely blame him (I do see a lot of merit with his tactics). However, the ham fisted way the FAI have conducted themselves over the years does take the sheen of the national team. They've created a sense of "them v. us" in a very small supporter base. An exciting game like Sunday's does make one wish that Irish football had that spark back again. Noting that doesn't make me any less of a fan than anyone else on these boards.

Fair enough and the Dublin Kerry game was a thriller, albeit full of unsophisticated rough and tumble and **** eyed finishing. I just don't see how a pivotal clash against a good team doesn't whet the appetite, regardless of what the FAI has done but I admit its probably a big ask for a Trap managed team to have the place rocking. A "spark" is the last thing you'd say this team has, but it does have good players with good attitudes and maybe it takes a game like this for that spark to return.

For me, GAA, even rugby will always be colloquial, it kills me to see them put ahead "International" football in the food chain... Football is truly a world game. That's why the Irish football team means so much to me - it carries a greater weight.

If Glenn Whelan morphs into Roy Keane for 90 minutes on Friday Night then LR will be rocking. Over to you Glenn....

Up to the players now. Obviously if the Trap plays Cox in the left wing he won't be helping matters but if Keane takes his chances, O'Shea stays alert for 90 minutes, McCarthy & Whelan get at least parity in midfield then 3 points is there for the taking. Sweden are a decent side but if the players perform it is a winnable game. A draw should not be viewed as an excellent result.

If Keane is firing on all cylinders (sounds like he is in the U S of A) then let's at least give him the chance to put the ball in the net. 1 chance, 1 nil, job done.

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Originally Posted by Grafter

For me, GAA, even rugby will always be colloquial, it kills me to see them put ahead "International" football in the food chain... Football is truly a world game. That's why the Irish football team means so much to me - it carries a greater weight.

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Couldn't agree more, Grafter. I'd be delighted with 3 points on friday even if, via some kind of sports-restricted butterfly effect or the intervention of a hard-bargaining genie or demon, it meant Cork taking a hammering from Clare the following sunday. No comparison at all in terms of satisfaction.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Fair enough and the Dublin Kerry game was a thriller, albeit full of unsophisticated rough and tumble and **** eyed finishing. I just don't see how a pivotal clash against a good team doesn't whet the appetite, regardless of what the FAI has done but I admit its probably a big ask for a Trap managed team to have the place rocking. A "spark" is the last thing you'd say this team has, but it does have good players with good attitudes and maybe it takes a game like this for that spark to return.

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I do often think it looks primitive at times, and there needs to be a proper defined tackle, this open hand thing is a load of crap really, its taken from basketball but it doesn't work as its meant to. I also think Hurling can look awful when you see "6 lads with sticks" belting the ground, but actually its just one of those things that from the sideline looks primitive but to be able actually do it on the field is completely different. I also notice that for people foreign to the sport these are the things they seem to enjoy most.

There is a bit of apathy in the country towards the soccer/football team and that is down to Trap's awfully conservative and sometimes barmy tactics (Cox on the wing, no place for Hoolahan, sticking to 4-4-2 doggedly). We do not play very attractive football and haven't since the McCarthy era, or the Kerr era in friendlies.

But if we win tomorrow you'll see a huge interest in the national team again.
People are fickle.
Go into work tomorrow and discuss it and you'll hear lads saying 'Ireland are $hite, we'll never qualify'
If we win tomorrow night you'll hear the same people saying what a great game it was and 'meself and herself always wanted a holiday in Rio'