Serbia V Republic of Ireland - Wednesday, 15th August 2012 - Friendly

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Originally Posted by theworm2345

Just watched it now, exactly as dire as I expected it to be. Only thing that stood out to me was Kelly had a nightmare at left back, was repeatedly skinned.

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If you want to be gloomy about Ireland football, nearly every game we have played against decent opposition would have given you plenty of cause and much more cause than this game provided. This game provided some optimism in the important areas of concern and by a long shot it was the game providing the most optimism we have ever managed in a friendly. Some might say the game against Norway in Oslo had that, but imo Norway were practicing their 'holding game' and we had Steven Reid in the middle.
We did well considering we were trying something new - playing football against a technically superior team - and considering in the back 4 we had McShane who could do anything crazy at any time, along with Kelly who had an unusually poor game defensively.
Time after time, in between the hoofs to Walters, we tried to play the ball out of defense through midfield. The ball was retained well at times and our closing down in midfield was about the best we have ever managed. Chances at either end were minimal. McCarthy did what he does for Wigan, take up intelligent positions in midfield, some people think that makes him look anonymous - not involved - not running throwing his weight around, but he was at the centre of all that was positive, closing down, comfortably receiving and delivering the ball, he will gradually become the effective main man over the course of this campaign.
There is much to be improved upon in this upcoming WC qualifying campaign, with defining our shape according to the ability of the available players but instead of realistically looking at a distant 3rd or 4th place in the group, we just might make a fight of it for 2nd place.

we got as much out of this game as I had hoped. signs of a new system and solid performances from the likes of o'dea, westwood, mccarthy and oshea who we will have to rely on heavily over the next few months. we also had the better of the possession which we havent seen in quite a while.

the one disappointment was the lack of real chances we created. four goals in 7 games since we beat Estonia 4-0 is worrying.

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Originally Posted by ifk101

The highlight of the game was McShane lifting the ball to himself and trying to score a volley from 40 yards out. Needless to say it went 40 yards wide. :-)

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Has anyone a photo of McShane with his headband? I hear Arsene Wenger has come into a few quid.

I thought we would be fine in this game as Serbia play in second gear in these types of matches. Westwood played well and should have started against Spain in the Euros as a few of us advocated. McCarthy proved he is a good player when on the ball. Amazingly! looks to receive the ball (something Dunne had been trying to hammer home since the Russia home defeat). Two players who should have been playing in Poland and never got a minutes play. The player who should be beside McCarthy in midfield is Pilkington (not a winger McClean or Cox a forward). Not even considered for the squad. More pace and better engine than Whelan or Andrews. And you cannot have two full backs like McShane and Kelly getting so easily bypassed. And we don't look like scoring goals and it is going to be our downfall against Kazackstan.

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Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar

The player who should be beside McCarthy in midfield is Pilkington (not a winger McClean or Cox a forward). Not even considered for the squad.

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has he said he wanted to play for Ireland? I thought he said the opposite yet his name keeps getting mentioned in relation to us

Pilkington was contacted about being in the squad but was injured.

I counted Walters gave away 10 frees and was awarded 3. Poor return. Cox 2 or 3 good runs but for the most part anonymous. Whatever people say about him, we will need Robbie to score goals which he does well especially against the likes Khazikstan. The other alternatives in Shane and Kevin, I am not sure about as top goal scorers.

Second half was dire I thought but I wouldn't expect much better with a team including McShane, Green, Kelly (out of position) and Keogh. We didn't surrender much to the opposition and that's Trap's way.

Another away match unbeaten with some pretty poor players wearing green. Why McShane dives in and then gets left behind baffles me. Does he not know about shadowing after all this time? Won headers in the box and that's why he is in the team.

I am not convinced about Mclean but it was a poor pitch which wouldn't suit his game.Jury out. McCarthy did ok but gave away one very dangerous ball on the edge of our box. However, he must play.

Great to see Joey O'Brien back after career threatening injuries.

Brian Kerr (on the panel) still has huge chips on his shoulder.

So on to the qualifiers. Clean sheet. Poland in the past.

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Originally Posted by OwlsFan

Pilkington was contacted about being in the squad but was injured.

I counted Walters gave away 10 frees and was awarded 3. Poor return. Cox 2 or 3 good runs but for the most part anonymous. Whatever people say about him, we will need Robbie to score goals which he does well especially against the likes Khazikstan. The other alternatives in Shane and Kevin, I am not sure about as top goal scorers.

Second half was dire I thought but I wouldn't expect much better with a team including McShane, Green, Kelly (out of position) and Keogh. We didn't surrender much to the opposition and that's Trap's way.

Another away match unbeaten with some pretty poor players wearing green. Why McShane dives in and then gets left behind baffles me. Does he not know about shadowing after all this time? Won headers in the box and that's why he is in the team.

I am not convinced about Mclean but it was a poor pitch which wouldn't suit his game.Jury out. McCarthy did ok but gave away one very dangerous ball on the edge of our box. However, he must play.

Great to see Joey O'Brien back after career threatening injuries.

Brian Kerr (on the panel) still has huge chips on his shoulder.

So on to the qualifiers. Clean sheet. Poland in the past.

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Agree with the majority of this. August friendlies are badly timed and generally are a case of going through the notions. I think mentally it was good to keep a clean sheet and get a game in after the Euros. Nice to try out a few different things and players. McShane varies from the very good to the down right ridiculous. The times he dives in when there is no need - lost count of the times I was screaming at him last night to just stand and shield his man. Left back in particular was a concern last night and looks like it will do so for a while yet. Duff did alot of unappreciated defensive work - if he stays I wonder could he be considered for LB? Probably not, I recall Mourinho played him there a few times (?).

I like Walters as a striker, he is strong not easy to mark and tends to get a decent few goals. I believe he would be well complemented with Long, who I expect to have a good season this year. Disappointed he didnt play and good to see that he was too. Probably the right call by Trap, if the lad got injured and was out for a few weeks, many would question Traps decision to play him.

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

has he said he wanted to play for Ireland? I thought he said the opposite yet his name keeps getting mentioned in relation to us

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Was thinking same. Followed him on twitter for a while, he is obsessed with the England national team, never seen him mention us on international match nights

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Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar

The player who should be beside McCarthy in midfield is Pilkington (not a winger McClean or Cox a forward). Not even considered for the squad. More pace and better engine than Whelan or Andrews.

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Is Pilkington not a winger as well?? Keith Fahey and Gibson beside McCarthy for me, hopefully Meyler steps up this season. I would have nothing against Andrews being included either, just not Whelo.

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Originally Posted by the bear

Is Pilkington not a winger as well?? Keith Fahey and Gibson beside McCarthy for me, hopefully Meyler steps up this season. I would have nothing against Andrews being included either, just not Whelo.

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Yes, exactly. Gibson-McCarthy-Fahey would mean a lot of ball-players in the middle of the park and would be a significant improvement and change of style.

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Originally Posted by p2011

Yes, exactly. Gibson-McCarthy-Fahey would mean a lot of ball-players in the middle of the park and would be a significant improvement and change of style.

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I have never seen anything in Gibson that suggests he can improve our performances. In fact I would rather see Andy Reid in there than Gibson. I say this fully aware of Reids fitness issues but given that both Reid and Gibson have more or less the same levels of industry and mobility around the park I would include Reid as he is a far better passer of the ball than Gibson. However, in reality I would include neither

Gibson is a far more mobile player than Reid. That is a ridiculous statement to make.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Gibson is a far more mobile player than Reid. That is a ridiculous statement to make.

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maybe he is but he rarely shows it. i will always give Irish players the benefit of the doubt and am dying for gibson to turn into a player but his lack of industry and appetite to get stuck in is baffling

Paul McShane is full of industry and hunger to get stuck in. So is Paul Green. I don't think those are the virtues you hold them up to be. The striking thing about our midfield yesterday is that they performed better than usual without seeming to expend half the energy. When you have more bodies in the middle and more talented readers of the game, you tend not to have so much harrying and getting stuck in.

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

but his lack of industry and appetite to get stuck in is baffling

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He is quite an industrious player imo. He gets up and down the pitch if required and when playing deep, such as for Everton or us, is constantly looking for the ball at first receiver from the defence/keeper.

He tends not to get stuck in as much, but he is willing judging by a few misjudged lunges he's aimed at opposition players from time to time. Moreover just because he's not Keith Andrews doesn't mean he's Stuart Downing.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Paul McShane is full of industry and hunger to get stuck in. So is Paul Green. I don't think those are the virtues you hold them up to be. The striking thing about our midfield yesterday is that they performed better than usual without seeming to expend half the energy. When you have more bodies in the middle and more talented readers of the game, you tend not to have so much harrying and getting stuck in.

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spain, with all their passing ability etc, always had about 3 + players around our man in possession when we played them. no team in the world can afford not to have all their midfield pressing and tackling

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

spain, with all their passing ability etc, always had about 3 + players around our man in possession when we played them. no team in the world can afford not to have all their midfield pressing and tackling

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That's Spain though. We can't play a game at the tempo Spain play it, nobody can. You have to be intelligent in how you press and conserve your energy, hence why Paul Greeen is always knackered after 10 minutes.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

You have to be intelligent in how you press and conserve your energy

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honestly, when did you last see Gibson press or chase back for anything other than a token effort?? obvioiusly you cant do it all the time but a few times a game at least would be nice.

the last time Gibson played from the start he constantly gave the ball away with his passing. we know he can pass but the standard I have seen from him time after time typifies a player who's mind isnt really as sharp for these things as it should be

I see Gibson do it plenty for Everton. Granted he's in a deeper role than he would be for Ireland, but he does do it and gets himself around the pitch. With a longer run of games under his belt I'm sure he'll easily replace either Whelan or Andrews because he's just an all-round better player.

The problem with the formation last night is that we are short on players to play as that central midfielder who is furthest forward. Someone who can link the play as well as get in the box. Fahy, Gibson, McCarthy, Whelan all suited to play a bit deeper, a bit more action with Andrews but technically weaker. Converting a winger or a striker to that role may work, maybe Robbie or Duff. I don't think McGeady or McClean are up to it. The one proven Irish player for whom the role is made for is Stephen Ireland!!

We do need a strong, athletic player in midfield. Pity Meyler hit a wall like he did at Sunderland.

Actually he hit a patch of hard ground and caught his studs.

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Originally Posted by PatJR

The problem with the formation last night is that we are short on players to play as that central midfielder who is furthest forward. Someone who can link the play as well as get in the box. Fahy, Gibson, McCarthy, Whelan all suited to play a bit deeper, a bit more action with Andrews but technically weaker. Converting a winger or a striker to that role may work, maybe Robbie or Duff. I don't think McGeady or McClean are up to it. The one proven Irish player for whom the role is made for is Stephen Ireland!!

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Duff is the guy with the attributes for it, I think McGeady could but would be better deployed out wide. Duff having the better ball control and his age lowering his pace moving him inside would make the most sense. I don't think McLean has the skillset for it, or any of the strikers.

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Originally Posted by PatJR

The problem with the formation last night is that we are short on players to play as that central midfielder who is furthest forward. Someone who can link the play as well as get in the box. Fahy, Gibson, McCarthy, Whelan all suited to play a bit deeper, a bit more action with Andrews but technically weaker. Converting a winger or a striker to that role may work, maybe Robbie or Duff. I don't think McGeady or McClean are up to it. The one proven Irish player for whom the role is made for is Stephen Ireland!!

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Wes Hoolahan?

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Originally Posted by PatJR

The problem with the formation last night is that we are short on players to play as that central midfielder who is furthest forward. Someone who can link the play as well as get in the box. Fahy, Gibson, McCarthy, Whelan all suited to play a bit deeper, a bit more action with Andrews but technically weaker. Converting a winger or a striker to that role may work, maybe Robbie or Duff. I don't think McGeady or McClean are up to it. The one proven Irish player for whom the role is made for is Stephen Ireland!!

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Stephen Ireland could play it.

I know, I know.

But he could.

duff would be ideal in that position at this stage of his career

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Originally Posted by EastTerracer

Worrying communication issues again - Shane Long claims he was fit to start tonight and doesn't seem too happy. Trap says he left him out as a "precaution" http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...322258936.html

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More bridges burnt?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19291354

"Giovanni Trapattoni describes Shane Long's behaviour as 'idiotic'"

Someone's telling a fib.

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Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter

Someone's telling a fib.

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When is one communication issue going to be the one too many....

It's not the 80's anymore.

For once I agree with you Manblue. His level of English is terrible. His press conferences need subtitles at the best of times and this continuous stream of issues with players is very very worrying.

He's correct, if Shane Long is deemed unfit by the Irish physios then he's being childish to go against their expertise and declare himself fit. It goes into the realms of disciplinary action to go one step further and actually complain about your managers decision to the press. Shane is in the wrong here although it's ironic in a week of a lot of Irish players faking injury that we have someone faking fitness, hopefully it can be put behind them.

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Originally Posted by Murfinator

He's correct, if Shane Long is deemed unfit by the Irish physios then he's being childish to go against their expertise and declare himself fit. It goes into the realms of disciplinary action to go one step further and actually complain about your managers decision to the press. Shane is in the wrong here although it's ironic in a week of a lot of Irish players faking injury that we have someone faking fitness, hopefully it can be put behind them.

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Its pure bull**** from Trapatonni. And no Irish physio said Long was unfit. The scan came back clear. Trapatonni changed his mind and decided (once more) to play Cox instead of Shane Long. Long is fit to play for Weat Brom against Liverpool tomorrow which says it all. To say Long is in the wrong is laughable. Long turns up to play (even though he has a new manager at West Brom to win over) and is treated shabbily by the Irish manager.

Sounds a lot like the Foley business all over again.

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Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter

Sounds a lot like the Foley business all over again.

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And never forget Steven Reid who was also treated badly by the current Irish manager. And these are not trouble makers or fruitcakes like Stephen Ireland. Traps exact quote yesterday was Cox is a better tactical player than Shane Long? Cox is blameless in all this but I have yet to see him contribute in any meaningful way in any competitive game he has played in. He never looks like scoring in the serious games. Long scores against Russia at home and has never been given a proper chance by this manager.

Not my best work, but...
http://i50.tinypic.com/of7c7b.png

The writing seems to be on the wall here. It's going to get messy and disappointing, imo.

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Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar

Its pure bull**** from Trapatonni. And no Irish physio said Long was unfit. The scan came back clear. Trapatonni changed his mind and decided (once more) to play Cox instead of Shane Long. Long is fit to play for Weat Brom against Liverpool tomorrow which says it all. To say Long is in the wrong is laughable. Long turns up to play (even though he has a new manager at West Brom to win over) and is treated shabbily by the Irish manager.

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Just curious, but where does it say the scan came back clear? (EDIT: Never mind, just saw it in the IT.)

TBH though I think it's an impossible situation, particularly if the player decides to go to the press. Trap plays him and he gets a knock, he'd get it in the neck from West Brom/media. Apparently Long told him he was hurt so Trap decided not to risk it - no big deal, until the player decides to throw his toys. I find the 'Cox over Long' talk a bit tin-hatted.

However while I do think the manager should retain the right to get annoyed at his players, but he shouldn't have called him an idiot.

It'd be funnier if it wasn't so troubling (his Robbie impressions sounds like a keeper though).

maybe after the grief the management team got over the treatment of the latest dunne injury they played it cautious on this one.
its a fact long initially said he was injured and its also a fact that he needed a scan. so if long subsequently gets injured in the match even though the scan comes back clear how does that leave the management when they have to answer to west brom?

I'm delighted to see Shane is passionate and frustrated about not playing but he's in the wrong here as Murfinator pointed out.

I can't help but feel this is the type of minor aside that gets stoked and picked at by a somewhat mischievous media element.

Incidently I believe Trap described Longs behaviour as idiotic - not quite the same as calling Long an idiot.

Long is wrong to run his mouth in the press like that - clearly.

Trap is still wrong for calling his behaviour idiotic in public. Deal with it directly with the player - not via the press and don't slate a player or his behaviour for something like this in public.

I hate to say this because I've backed him up to now but there are too many incidents of this nature happening. While Trap isn't the cause of some - he is the common denominator.