Id hold out more hope if it was Eoin or Eoghan...Quote:
Originally Posted by mark12345
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Id hold out more hope if it was Eoin or Eoghan...Quote:
Originally Posted by mark12345
Funny when i lived out there, i was at this guys house from the liberties, i cant remember his first name thought it was smith, but he reminded me a bit of that guy in Fair City who was going out with Carol, and I think Lorcan killed him - i never ever watch Fair city and i don't know how i remember the names, but his character and the weird (nutter)one who always listened to the classical music in his car are stuck in my head. Anyway real liberties fella but very very nice, couldnt do enough for ye.Quote:
Originally Posted by mark12345
http://soccerlens.com/finance-in-eng...visions/92692/
Average wage in the Championship = £250,000 a year. For League 1, £80,000 a year. League 2, £65,000.
http://www.football-lineups.com/tour...home_avg_atte/
Average crowds for the Championship = 17846. League 1, 7462, League 2, 4453.
I realise that there are a lot of people on here who are frustrated with the failure of the LOI to do more to market itself and draw people in.
Stuttgart88 mentioned earlier (not sure what thread) that in order to improve domestic football and keep more players at home, it might have to be turned into something that current LOI fans wouldn't support. But I think the figures above are pretty uncomfortable reading for people who think that we'll ever really in a position to keep our top talent at home. Even in the incredibly optimistic scenario of LOI games averaging 4500 a game, we'd only be matching the figures for League 2. I'm not sure that we can ever realistically hope to meet League 1 attendances, never mind Championship numbers. I know that revenue is made up of more than just crowds, with TV revenue being a big part of it. I found something about Championship clubs getting £1,000,000 each in 2006. No figures for League 1 or 2, but I'm not optimistic that LOI clubs (in whatever guise) will ever get that big a slice of the pie.
So I think that rather than talking about generating a platform to keep our best players at home (or even the second best level), we should be looking at how to keep players at home for longer. We have to deal with the issue of junior clubs packing off our young stars before they ever play LOI, but equally we have to make staying at home a more attractive proposition for them. With better facilites and better crowds, maybe the lure of a decent wage, proper training, and even exposure in European competitions might make a few change their minds.
Speaking of training, if we're going to keep them at home for longer, we have to make sure that they're getting properly trained. We complain that we've lost many talented footballers because English football's bruising academies chewed them up and spat them out, so we need to practice what we preach - more qualified coaches at all leves working toward a common goal.
The problem with all of this, of course, is that neither the FAI or the LOI has a pot to pi$$ in, and we're left in a horrible kind of catch-22 situation.
There is this notion some posters have on here that the LOI is happy with what it is, and doesn't want to improve, but the fact is that all LOI clubs would love to have academies and better facilities and the best coaches, but we simply don't have the money for it.
As Dodge said years ago, there's not a problem in the LOI that can't be solved with money, but the problem, then and now, is where it's going to come from.
The thing is many "millionaires" have invested in clubs but it has got them nowhere, only agro from fans and run the club into receivership or near recievership. ANy wise businessman is not going to invest for no return - and thats why all these other fools have invested, because they really dont know what they are doing, and they dont know how to generate income streams.
If an investor could identify a way of linking up with other clubs or could guarantee, even 1 decent sale a year to the PL or abroad, then I'd be confident the goals above could be achieved.
At the end of the day, if the LOI and its clubs want to increase attendances, generate more revenue, build better facilities, and essentially grow, they need to look to investors to help them. Even if they got another 500 a game in ticket sales, its not going to generate much of the former. Investment and yet keeping with the community vibe of LOI clubs, can and should be achieved*. Bring on board business minded people, get them involved, get them to promote the league.
Some of it may appear pie in the sky talk. But its the only way the league will prosper, I think crowds would then come, its the old field of dreams "build it and they will come".
*And like everything there are exceptions. I'd put SRFC in that bracket.
I think the League 1 and League 2 numbers put things into perspective. Don't forget that these clubs also receive a downstream solidarity subsidy from the EPL and the FA, not to mention the bigger commercial opportunities.
Here's the rub: Irish football is to a large extent a tributary of the English system. Our public supports English teams and pays to watch English football on the telly. Our better players all work in England and are recruited from Ireland at young ages. Yet we receive not a penny in compensation except for the odd derisory transfer fee.
I don't fully agree with Dodge's proposition that investment is what's needed, or rather I think it is a necessary but insufficient condition. The money needs to be spent well and this will only happen with a proper plan, and a proper plan will only be developed or effective when the Irish football pyramid and governance structure is properly joined up.
There's a paper I read by two Belgian sports economists saying that (as we all know) the polarisation of resources and competitiveness in European football, and subsequent insolvency of all but a few football clubs can be explained by a conflict between EU employment law and the EU-endorsed UEFA model of football (national leagues with promotion and relegation, international club competitions, and national teams). Post-Bosman EU footballers can move to where they get best paid (an open labour market) but football clubs can't really sell their services across borders - they must play in their domestic leagues (closed product market). This can only be solved by either closing the labour market to some degree (won't happen - remember the old 3+2 rule that Bosman put paid to?) or partial opening of the product market (e.g., cross border leagues - which leaves UEFA vulnerable to a power grab by big clubs across Europe).
The most obvious economic solution to all of European football's financial woes would be for a [20] team big city club US-style closed league with no promotion or relegation and full revenue sharing etc. We could try and negotiate for FAI franchise team or something like that. However this would marginalise UEFA and would find opposition from the EU (abuse of dominant market position when it comes to collectively selling TV rights and other licensing revenues). It would also stand firmly against what all of us football fans believe in.
Therefore I still think the most elegant solution to everything is for Ireland to develop 2, maybe 3or 4 at a stretch, fully professional teams that would gain virtually automatic entry into the Europa League and UEFA would change the Europa League so it becomes regionalised with our teams in the "North West Europe Zone" giving local derby type status to many of the games but also allowing for the Evertons / Sunderlands / Fulhams (or whoever) a chance to field waeker teams midweek and with relatively low travel complications - so they'd support the change too. My hunch (and that;'s all it is - I don't have a crystal ball) is that gate money would go up, sponsorship would go up and TV money would go up. Facilities and wages can be upgraded and a better all-round product would be offered.
The logistics of divvying up European football into enough zones would be hard but not impossible. Alternatively UEFA could look at allowing for a trans-European league not involving the Big 5 so Ireland might be able to enter a team (max two) into a "best of the rest" structure so X and Y teams from Ireland can play the Portos, Anderlechts, Ajaxes etc. The bigger teams in the smaller European leagues would be able to play against teams of similar financial standing.
Something along the above lines is the only way I can envisage the top professional tier of irish football being viable and being a credible alternative to our better (but not best) players playing in the Championship and below.
There are, how many - 6? - clubs in Dublin alone. Though I looked up the distribution of Uruguayan clubs and something like 13 out of 16 top flight clubs are from Montevideo :) But presumably, in addition to much better gate money, the better clubs get Copa Libertadore income - no idea just guessing.
We all like the history, community links and the quirky quaintness of the LOI but the ££££ genie is out of the bottle. We can't ignore the broadcast revolution and the Bosman ruling.
From wiki, but the sources seem to be CONMEBOL documents so it should be correct:Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Clubs in the Copa Libertadores receive $25,000 for advancing into the second stage and $210,000 per home match in the group phase.[54] That amount is derived from television rights and stadium advertising.[54] The payment per home match increases to $295,000 in the round of 16.[6][54] The prize money then increases as each quarterfinalist gets $375,000, $525,000 for each semifinalist, $625,000 for the runner-up, and $1,000,000 for the winner.[54]
The winner also receives $2 million from Banco Santander as a bonus.
So for comparison, Penarol, the team who came 3rd in Uruguay last season got $655,000 (over €500,000) despite coming last in their group.
As if that would make any difference, Jesus live football on your doorstep. Simples
Yeah, but there's football and football.
It depends on the price, quality and whether you have any affinity for the club. Especially if you're an 'outsider' not from that town or locality.
Can think of lots of people who wouldn't cross the road to see their local club for any variety of those reasons.
And often not because they 'want success' either.
These days, actually prefer a game much more as a dispassionate 'neutral'. And if it's a new ground...
Sad, I know.
I see Watford has been sold to Italians and Forest has just been sold to Kuwaitis. When is the penny going to drop over there? They have basically been tarting their community assets to ultra rich foreigners so the Murdoch backed Premier League can generate more revenues that they just spend on player wages anyway, a model which bankrupts all but a few. A handful of spivs and opportunists make out like bandits, most notably SKY whose platform has benefitted massively. Brian Clough would turn in his grave at what has happened to Forest. If we think our governance and strategic direction is bad, theirs just sucks.
Aye, but a lot more money sloshing about there always draws them in.
My first reaction to this is to quote you earlier in your own post:Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
For me, the success of Limerick FC is far more important than success of the National team. I don't expect many people to like that, but that's how it is. So I'm only going to be supportive of change which has as its primary goal the improvement of the LOI (with better players for the national team being a positive side effect). Any idea to break up the top tier of domestic football and put it back together only with a view to improving the role it plays in producing players for the national team is going to run into opposition from LOI fans (which isn't to say it wouldn't happen).Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
If the first part of your idea happened, I can see two problems. First, when not involved in europa league games, where would these teams be playing in? The LOI? Are you in favour of just giving a bucketload of cash to carefully selected teams to ensure their yearly qualification into Europe, and nothing for the rest? Secondly, just because we'd have better teams doesn't mean they'd all have Irish players. To ensure competitiveness in Europe while maintaining a theme of developing players is very difficult. A look at Sunderland's squad tells me that just over half are not English, while 16 of Everton's squad are not English, and at fulham, the number of non-English players is 20/26. I know these are only examples you used, but the point I'm making is that we could very easily fall into the trap of thinking that having a good standard of football in our league means we'll have a good national team. England has been at a loss for years to explain the disappointing performances at the WC and Euros of the players from 'the best league in the world'. Wouldn't the Irish 'super-clubs' similarly be forced into buying non-Irish players to remain competitive?
I think that your second suggestion of the transnational league would have the same problems, except with only 2 teams, the opportunities for young Irish players would be even more limited.
Definitely. The smaller leagues in Europe that are producing the elite sides are doing so with domestic players and resources. No amount of investment will disguise the fact we aren't producing the requisite standard of technical players.Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
Of course a simple alternative objective might just be to improve the LOI and make sure its financially viable (mainly by cutting costs rather than increasing wages) but to give up the objective of providing a particularly high quality football product. We could aim at developing better players from a young age and if they go to England in their teens so be it. In due course with England now finally introducing small sided games, a national academy, transferring elite coaching responsibility to the big clubs etc. our players will have to be developed similarly even to preserve our current model.
If some form of cross-border solution was pursued I understand the revenue disparity that would exist so some form of downstream subsidy would have to be in place - possibly necessitating a closed league.
I fully respect your favouring Limerick over Ireland. I've always believed there is no one best way. This mad game pulls on all our hearts in different ways.
I still think Irish players would be favoured simply because they'd now earn a wage that would probably keep them at home but that wage level might not be enough to attract players from abroad. I think the Irish rugby players benefit from a tax break that means they get an income tax rebate if they spend most of their careers in Ireland. It's a tricky issue because you can't prevent EU clubs from hiring EU players. Leave the EU!
I understand that change might not be accepted by many. I'm a traditionalist myself but equally I'm frustrated that Ireland can't offer its public a football product that captures the public imagination.
Remember this - from 2005?
http://foot.ie/inc/pdf/genesis.pdf
This is what they thought was "possible and a realistic vision of success" in 5 years:
Ranking:
• Top 20’s in the UEFA League rankings
• League clubs are consistently competitive in Europe and competing in the
Champions League group stages
Attendances:
• 1 million per annum with an average 4,000-5,000 per game
• Successful clubs in all major population centres
Facilities:
• Range of 5,000/10,000 all-seater stadia throughout the League
• High quality facilities including corporate hospitality, catering and
conference with the stadia working 7 days a week
• Facilitate the creation of ‘an event’ around game night
• Pitches meet International standard and high quality training facilities
Licensing:
• All clubs adhere to licensing requirements
• Range of high criteria set for participating clubs
Club Management:
• Professional management & administration in clubs with a long-term
planning focus
• Clubs stable, solvent and investing in infrastructure and development
• Clubs managing within their means (Wage/turnover ratio 65% or less)
Media Coverage:
• High profile coverage across all media (TV, Radio, Print, Digital)
• Weekly live and highlights TV coverage of games
• Players recognised and personalities created
Playing Standards:
• League players regularly in International Squad
• All coaches fully qualified
• High quality, competitive football, with full time professional squads
Marketing:
• League is ‘sexy’ and ‘cool’
• High quality branding and marketing, attracting premium sponsors/partners
Pyramid:
• League is the pinnacle of the football pyramid with a clear pathway from
under-age, youth, senior leagues and partnership with all of football
• Young players aspiring to play in the league and the clubs developing their
own talent with successful National underage leagues in place
Community:
• Strong identity between clubs and their communities
• All clubs/schools in the area are attached to their local ‘league’ club
• Club is the focal point for the community it serves
League Management and control:
• Long-term, strategic focus
• Strong, decisive, independent and direct guarantor of excellence
• Detailed participation agreement/contract in place and adhered to
Financial Strength and Stability:
• League generating significant revenues - €5-10m
• Attracting investment form Government, Private Investment
• Top League clubs with annual turnover of €3m+ and financially stable
How much of the gap between the above and reality is a result of......
(a) Poor Management and implementation of the gensis findings by the FAI / Clubs
(b) The economy in general
(c) Genisis talking through its consultancy ***hole!!!
In the last 7 years has the league stoodstill, gone backwards or forwards?
Can you format text with the strikeout option here?
In absence of that formatting option I have highlighted in bold those areas where better execution / planning / management can make improvements.
Anything else costs money that ain't likely to be found. Of course there's a lot of "chicken and egg" - better sponsors, better product etc. will lead to better turnover, and hence better quality, but which comes first?
Ranking:
• Top 20’s in the UEFA League rankings
• League clubs are consistently competitive in Europe and competing in the
Champions League group stages
Attendances:
• 1 million per annum with an average 4,000-5,000 per game
• Successful clubs in all [ or most] major population centres
Facilities:
• Range of 5,000/10,000 all-seater stadia throughout the League
• High quality facilities including corporate hospitality, catering and
conference with the stadia working 7 days a week
• Facilitate the creation of ‘an event’ around game night
• Pitches meet International standard and high quality training facilities
Licensing:
• All clubs adhere to licensing requirements
• Range of high criteria set for participating clubs
Club Management:
• Professional management & administration in clubs with a long-term
planning focus
• Clubs stable, solvent and investing in infrastructure and development
• Clubs managing within their means (Wage/turnover ratio 65% or less)
Media Coverage:
• High profile coverage across all media (TV, Radio, Print, Digital)
• Weekly live and highlights TV coverage of games
• Players recognised and personalities created
Playing Standards:
• League players regularly in International Squad
• All coaches fully qualified
• High[er] quality, competitive football, with full time professional squads
Marketing:
• League is ‘sexy’ and ‘cool’
• High[er] quality branding and marketing, attracting premium [better] sponsors/partners
Pyramid:
• League is the pinnacle of the football pyramid with a clear pathway from
under-age, youth, senior leagues and partnership with all of football
• Young players aspiring to play in the league and the clubs developing their
own talent with successful National underage leagues in place
Community:
• Strong identity between clubs and their communities
• All clubs/schools in the area are attached to their local ‘league’ club
• Club is the focal point for the community it serves
League Management and control:
• Long-term, strategic focus
• Strong, decisive, independent and direct guarantor of excellence
• Detailed participation agreement/contract in place and adhered to
Financial Strength and Stability:
• League generating significant revenues - €5-10m
• Attracting investment form Government, Private Investment
• Top League clubs with annual turnover of €3m+ and financially stable
I love the consultant quip.Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior
I think some of the league has gone forwards, much of it backwards.
Backwards. Undoubtedly.
Were eh.. 7 years closer to a solution.
Professional football is going to go the way of Professional boxing (multitude of belts) and cricket under Kerry Packer (and failry soon too). Especially the Premier League. Your are going to see Premier league games being played in various cities around the world. It will be pure franchising and watch as the owners start flexing thier financial muscle. There might be an opening here for the top teams in the LOI when/if it does happen. A type of second tier European type league.
I'm pretty sure the EU will flex its muscle and disallow such a move - or at least make it difficult. Centralised selling of TV rights is typically seen as monopolistic behaviour and breach of dominant position, both clear breaches of EU competition rules. However, the EC has allowed leagues and UEFA to collectively sell their rights because it raises more money for the game which is channelled downwards. The EU has a favoured vision of sports structure and kind of tuns a blind eye to breaches of antitrust rules if it can be shown that the objective is justifiable, legitimate and proportionate. A Super League or franchised league doesn't fit this vision and I believe the clubs would find it hard to get it through. Individual TV rights selling would make many clubs very uneasy. That said, the contract between UEFA and the major clubs (where the clubs agree to be bound by UEFA's rules) expires in 2014 I think. As long as UEFA continues to give ground with regard to fewer international dates, compensation for players injured on international duty etc. I think we'll see the current model stay for some time.
Anyone else got a view?
I concur with Stutts.
Great post geysir - bang on the money.
Just to correct the above (too late to edit) that should have read 'abuse of dominant position'.
The LOI is always going to struggle to compete with the EPL, in fairness a comparison is even unfair. We should not be trying to build an EPL style league here. The EPL is huge in Asia and they are thousands of miles away, what chance have we so close to it!!
The only way we will be involved in a "big style" league is if there is a creation of a European wide elite league and we may get one (Dublin) and max two participants (Dub and Belfast). next best thing is a Celtic style league, between NI, Scots, Welsh and ourselves with perhaps two or three entries from ROI.
The FAI need to make a concentrated and deliberate effort to develop the game here. Look at the most well attended sport in the country - GAA, even they struggle to get solid regular attendances. But they have sound local support in alot of counties. Thats what we need to develop. We're not talking big numbers here - if each club had a solid following of 5k plus, then that would be a success.
New clubs should be developed in areas that can support such teams - it will take time and investment. But when watching some gaa yday I was thinking that there are some strong sporting counties in this country that have zero LOI involvement and arent even close to it. I would propose a first tier of Irish football comprising teams from Kerry, Limerick City, Cork City, Mayo (Castlebar, W'port or Ballina), Galway United, Silgo Rovers, Derry City, Waterford United, Drogheda United/Dundalk, two teams from Dublin, Tipperary (Clonmel). There may well be scope for one or two more.
But the main points from such a plan would be
1. To have a team in areas of the country such that wherever you are, you are not very far from a LOI club.
2. Each LOI club has a strong catchment area that can support 5k plus regular attendance and
3. (with the exception of Dublin) there is no more than one team in each catchment area - i.e so that the support that is there is not diluted (example being three teams in Galway at one point when only one at best is sustainable.
Yep, I think a good outcome for the LOI would be clubs that have crowds of 3-5k regularly and that have up-to-date stadia and playing surfaces to match. A key ingedient is for them to be rooted in the community and seen as a complement rather than a competitor to intermediate clubs.
You're right that the EPL shouldn't be a benchmark. My guess is that some EPL players earn more in a week or a few weeks than a LOI club turnsover in a full season. So the strategy choice is whether to push for some solution that would allow for a higher (but not top drawer) professional product to be presented to the public, or whether to pare down expectations and have a nice tidy sustainable, mutual model but which ultimately is unlikely to rank much higher than low 30s / high 20s in European coefficient.
How about a €5 LOI tax on international ticket sales?, ie if you don't hold a LOI season ticket you pay a €5 extra charge for international tickets. The money made from this tax can be re-distributed to the LOI clubs in terms of stadium grants/ youth development projects etc etc.
Tickets to international games are all ready overpriced as it is. That would just mean less people filling the Aviva. Would probably also embitter supporters of English clubs against the LoI, not encourage them.
But what about the ROI attendees who are openly competing with the LOI - the various intermediate clubs for example, or the schoolboy clubs? Why are LOI clubs more worthy of infrastructure grants? It all goes back to the issue of "joining up" the whole game.
Also, pricing of tickets appears to be a deterrent at the moment and will be for some time. Would a surcharge on existing tickets to finance a part of the game many see as either competing or a basket case might just reduce ROI crowds further.
That ship has sailed.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter
Sure, the benefits are the tax don't necessarily need to be restricted to LOI clubs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Sure but the domestic game needs funding if it's to improve.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I think the FAI is a less healthy version of Man United in a way - any money in pays off the debts first. In FAI's case there seems to be flip all left after that!
Haven't been on here in a while; now that the dust has settled a bit after the Euros, here are my thoughts. And I'm sorry to digress from the very interesting grassroots and LOI debate...
I think the biggest indictment of Trapattoni from this tournament was that the starting line-up against Italy contained nine players who started against Italy in Croker in 2009. Given that Duff was injured for that Croker game, and it looks like the only change Trap has made in three years has been to replace Kilbane with Ward - a forced change, in many respects. Italy, by contrast, had only four survivors from 2009 in their starting line-up (Buffon, Chiellini, Pirlo, De Rossi). Statistically, we had the oldest squad in the tournament. We now have a stagnant team in dire need of change, which has been an underlying fear despite our commendable results in the qualifying campaign.
Since 2009, we have had 14 friendlies to try out new players, and given out 14 new caps (Fahey, Green, McCarthy, Cunningham, Sheridan, Clark, Wilson, Walters, Cox, Ward, Coleman, Treacy, Forde, McClean), which doesn't exactly point to an unwillingness to try new talent. Unfortunately, some of our better up-and-coming players had to pull out of squads at times when they had a real chance to cement their places. Also, Gibson and Foley were given opportunities to push on into the starting XI, but they both 'fluffed their auditions' to an extent at home to Macedonia, and they weren't given much of a chance thereafter. It's not like Trap hasn't tried to reshuffle, but it just hasn't worked out for a number of individual players. On the other hand, Trapattoni has also been guilty of misjudgement of players in a number of positions; McCarthy as a 'free role' player, Clark and Wilson being ignored as utility options, Foley in CM, O'Shea at RB, unwillingness to drop Whelan or Andrews even when hideously out of form, picking Keogh as the midfield/forward utility option instead of trying Hoolahan, and keeping faith with Green and McShane in the squad. In this campaign, there will be no margin for error in our team selections. If we have players out of form or out of position while better alternatives are left on the bench or out of the squad completely, we will be punished.
As for the system, well, as has been pointed out on this and other threads, we have the same problem with Robbie Keane as England have had with Wayne Rooney; how do you leave out the top goalscorer? With 12 goals in 18 games in 2010/11, he had to be fitted in somewhere, and as he proved at Liverpool, he isn't well-suited to a lone striker or AM role in a 4-5-1 or 4-3-3 variant. Keane's presence has certainly dictated the shape of the team; Trap mused about using Keane in the 'Totti' role, but Keane's natural game is to play on the shoulder of the last defender - Keane has often looked confused when attempting to drop deep (Bulgaria away is a good example of this). Our last win against a mid-to-high seeded team was against Slovakia in 2007, when Keane was suspended and Staunton accidentally stumbled upon his best team; 4-5-1 with Duff, Ireland and McGeady playing behind Kevin Doyle. The extra man in midfield compensated for the fact that we had limited players in CM (Carsley and Kilbane) who both struggled in a 4-4-2 in that campaign. The change in formation is definitely workable for Irish players, and can pay dividends. Now that Keane is winding down his career, it's an ideal time to look at alternatives.
Where to from now? We can write Euro 2012 off as a bad experience. Sweden and Denmark had awful Euro 2000 campaigns, but qualified for most of the tournaments in the following twelve years. I'd be more than happy if we could do the same. The formation needs to change, and the squad needs some fresh blood; that's absolutely clear now. The current starting XI has stayed together for too long, and grown stale. We have a much wider pool of talent than what was available in 2008/9, and the likes of Wilson, McCarthy, Gibson, Hoolahan, McClean and Long should be central to the team's development, after having good seasons last year - not just fringe players. If Clark, Coleman, Meyler, McCann, Brady, Duffy, Cunningham and others make better headway at club level, it should be recognised and rewarded.
The next squad/team announcement is going to be very interesting, and could well define our campaign. If Trap keeps faith with 4-4-2 and fails to shake things up at full-back and central midfield, and continues to ignore club form, it'll be a long two years. I'm just hoping for change, and for the right changes to be made, and that our young players can step up to our expectations. Are the FAI right to keep Trap on? I would say a cautious and partly resigned 'yes'. As Sanchez and McLeish/Smith showed with NI and Scotland, a good club job is far more attractive these days than a mid-ranking international job. If the FAI are, as expected, to return to modest wage packets, our next manager will probably be someone with very little top-level experience, or someone with significant blotches of failure or mediocrity on their CV. Giving Trap the sack after qualifying for our first tournament in 10 years would make the Irish job seem like an extremely unattractive and thankless proposition, even for an accomplished and ambitious manager. Either way, it'll be a risk, and I suppose it's a case of 'better the devil you know' for the time being.
And 8 (or 7 but Duff was injured) that started the campaign away to Georgia.Quote:
Originally Posted by Supreme feet
Great stuff above, welcome back.
Rather than raise the ticket price, have a mandatory 10% of total ticket income put aside for the above. Have it regarded as a compulsory duty to cover this obligation.Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
Possibly designate one friendly for this purpose.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supreme feet
Agree that it would be nonsensical to get rid of Trap after he qualified us for the Euros - a competition that is higher in standard per team than the WC. Trap made alot of mistakes at the Euros but he deserves another shot.
Change is an absolute must at this stage. At the start of his reign, Trap brought in plenty of new players and was more than willing to mix it up when needed. He needs to do the same now again - whatever about the formation, at least five or six new players need to be drafted in. For me and in order of priority I want to see McCarthy, Long, McClean, Gibson, Wilson, Duffy and Clark brought into the squad for the Serbia match and given a good run out in the match.
Question is does anyone believe Trap will make such radical changes for the friendly?!? I for one am not optimistic. I think we will see a squad that mirrors what he brought to the Euros. If that happens and he has a poor start to the campaign, he will be in danger of going the same way as McCarthy did in the Euro 2004 campaign.
Good post supreme.
What makes you say that the FAI are expected to return to modest wage packets? I've not seen the accounts yet were there any comments in there about salaries? Or are you just basing that on the fact that traps and JD's salaries far outweigh the role and performance to date and it's morally what should happen!!
Just an assumption really, given the expenses associated with the Aviva, and the uncertainty of further backing from Denis O'Brien.Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior
The next donation from Denis O'Brien will be used to support JD's salary. :rolleyes:
I think I am getting more and more angry about his salary every day.
I feel that LOI clubs will never be able to attract really big crowds in the current climate, unless very wealthy Irish businessmen invest in the league, like has happened with clubs like Shakthar Donetsk etc. I could see how a city like Dublin has great potential to invest in and develop a club, but I think the downside is that such people would have little interest in dealing with the small time FAI. I do think that if there was a regional league with the North, Scotland and maybe Norway, like a Magnier's League, it would attract more investment and it would become a more attractive league for fans. Alot of this is pie in the sky stuff because UEFA might not be keen on the idea. Even if it was approved, it might not happen for 10-15 years.
However, I feel that a league with good facilities, clubs that have their own academies with excellent coaches and in the cases of clubs like Sligo Rovers and Cork are regional hubs for the best young players in their areas is very attainable. These clubs could have links with all the schoolboy clubs in the area and be able to identify the very promising players and get them in to their set-up. In return, they would give local clubs top level coaching. I understand that when the likes of Liverpool or Man United come knocking the very best youngsters would be likely to leave, but at least such youngsters would be in the club's academy and the club would be able to receive compensation.