Are you not a LOI fan yourself?:D
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Are you not a LOI fan yourself?:D
Like where?Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
On other sites but worth a mention.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqSX5...ature=youtu.be
I make it to Limerick games when I can, but I've never complained about Irish fans watching English, Scottish, or whatever clubs. Phrases like "real football for real fans" only serve to widen the gap between the two groups.Quote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt
from http://thescore.thejournal.ie/uefa-i...comment-477328Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
from https://twitter.com/TheLOIBLOG/statu...09758261280769Quote:
So Ireland’s Premier League supporters win an award from UEFA. Platini could either go to Richmond Park, Dalymount or any League of Ireland ground and present it to the real Irish fan or he could go to any Premier League ground and award it to any of the thousands of ‘Irish Fans’ there on a Saturday.
and in reply to the above https://twitter.com/7_tom/statuses/219012939527630848Quote:
UEFA to present Irish fans with award for their support at EURO 2012. He should present it at HT at a LOI game to see how good they are!
I've seen similar comments to the above on private forums, but I can't link them hereQuote:
@TheLOIBLOG agree UEFA award an absolute farce. Ole Ole Ole Ole we don't support when Irish clubs play
my point is (and has been for some time) that LOI fans need to change their attitude towards fans of non-LOI clubs if they want to get these fans in the gates at LOI games
Totally agree re. certain LOI fans. And EPL/SPL fans also.
My club is no longer in the LOI, but with 3-4 exceptions really don't care what other club sides they follow.
It is a 'free' world. Of sorts.
Well said. If the LOI does become a success many would complain about all the johnny-come-latelys who have hoppped on board. Football is a broad church and attracts many different ranges of interest. It's about time some of the cranks realised this.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
I can understand their frustration. Simply put, people who don't go to football matches cannot possibly be the best fans in the world and to say otherwise is just downright silly. I can see why people consider LOI fans to be hostile and unwelcoming but it's asking a lot of people to expect them to be ambassadors for the league 24/7. LOI fans might be derisive of non-LOI fans in public forums, but anybody who shows up to a game is treated exactly the same way whether it's their first game or their 10,000th.
Yeah but how can someone say they love football then totally ignore the game that is on their doorstep while going off to the bar to watch a game on the tele. With the amount of good ex LOI players now in the Irish team, its now more than ever that the LOI need the "best fans in the world" to come out and show their support. Its very easy to follow ireland, not so easy to attend a game in a damp Carlisle grounds for instance. No problem with the irish fans singing, as i would be singing and enjoying the craic myself if i was out there, but its the total lack of respect thats shown towards our league that gets on my nerves
This is absolutely 100% not the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
That's ridiculousQuote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I don't think it is but hopefully events will prove me wrong someday. I fully accept that the Polish RoI support contained many "temporary" fans but it's just a simple fact that big events attract more people than small ones. I don't think many RoI fans will claim to be one of the "best all-encompassing fan of all levels of footbal" on the planet but that's not what the supposed award is for. "Best fans at the tournament and a role model for all fans of the international game and probably all levels of the game", yes.
I think anyone who doesn't recognise this nuance is probably choosing not to recognise it and just has the hump.
I also think that the LOI is just one tier of Irish football. There were many flags and banners of local clubs and junior clubs who people play and volunteer for. These people are every bit of the support fabric of Irish football as LOI fans.
Just to set the record straight: I have only disdain for people who ridicule the standard of the LOI - either enjoy it or shut up about it I say - but I have no major gripe with people who don't think it's worth paying to see.
It would be ironic if the behaviour of ROI fans was portrayed as the ideal model for fans at all levels of the game given the attendances at LOI level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Regardless of any award for the genuinely admirable way the ROI fans conducted themselves in Poland, as I've mentioned before, I wonder what fans from other countries imagine our domestic league games to look like. Do they envisage something similar to ROI's euro games but (obviously) on a smaller scale?
Would their perception of the ROI fans change if they knew that a serious majority of those in Poland don't go to LOI games?
I was referring to the behaviour of the RoI being the ideal model of beahviour for fans of the game at any level. I think you noted yourself what I was tryiong to say.
I dunno about the perceptionod RoI fans changing among the Poles or wherever. I think if people knew the full picture about football in Ireland they'd appreciate that it's such a strange thing it's probably understandable that low numbers support the game in Ireland. More than anyone we're in the shadow of the biggest, most bloated, most financially obscene soap opera version of the game in the world, we share an island with a huge powerful sports organisation that has historically been hand-in-hand with a most insular idealist nationalist political party that only ever looked down its nose at our game in Ireland, an organisation that labelled you unpatriotic by supporting football with its "foreign game" tag and the ban, and so on.
I fully accept that there's a challenge for someone to somehow tap into the temporary fan element of the RoI support to become a more frequent fan, and so on, but how to do it is another debate.
Just as a complete total and utter aside: are there many Poles left in Ireland? Would a Dublin Polish football club (like London Irish RFC used to be) have any merit?
Anyway, back in the real world far beyond RMK and certain detached (& possibly deluded?) zealots dictating who the 'real' fans are...
http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/euro-...ve-uefa-award/
I assume perceptions of the Ireland fans in Poland were 100% based on perceptions of the Irish fans in Poland, regardless of where they live in the world or what they do when they are at home.Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
Am I mistaken, I thought you had no problem calling somebody a supporter of the Ireland team even if they did not attend LOI games?
Hopefully when in Dublin Platini will be shown a game in, e.g., Tallaght, and will have a meeting with JD and Leo Varadaker (sports minister?) to discuss how UEFA can help countries like Ireland compete in the current marketplace for football. Rather than just engaging in a PR stunt / backslapping exercise we can use something like this to catalayse some change - and embarrass government into doing something useful for our game.
Nice gesture to honour James Nolan with the award.
Here is Keith Andrews' view of the fans in Gdansk:
In the end, after waiting 10 years and after all the hard work in getting to Poland, probably the only real positive we could take out of the tournament was the amazing atmosphere created by the Irish fans. We’re 4-0 down against Spain and all you can hear for the last 10 minutes is The Fields Of Athenry. That will live with me forever.
I was so knackered by that stage of the game, after putting in a fair old shift running around after Spain’s 17 midfielders, but that sound just made me want to kick on to the end. It sent shivers down my spine.
I got dragged straight into a TV interview 30 seconds after I came off the pitch and I remember what I said: that we’d fallen well short and been beaten by a far superior side. But I also said that the fans were the highlight of the evening and would probably be remembered as one of the highlights of the tournament.
Roy Keane was critical of all that but I’m not going to get involved in a slanging match with him. He was a fantastic player for our country, one of the best midfielders to play the game and I respected him a hell of a lot as a player. He is also entitled to his opinion in his new job. But my thoughts about the fans are as clear now as they were when I spoke with my emotions running high right after the game.
And what they did that night has since been praised worldwide. Supporters aren’t stupid. They know football and they know that when their team has just been put to the sword by one of the greatest football teams the world has seen, that’s not the time to turn on the players and throw out all thoughts of unity and togetherness.
But I’m also sure that if, in the next qualifying campaign, we’re not up to the standards we’ve set in the last few years, then they’ll be quick to voice their anger too — and rightly so.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/s...or-199229.html
Exactly.
So, what's the title of this award then? "Best fans in the world", "best supporting role in an international tournament", "best song at an international match despite worst overall score"?...
I think someone at their 10,000th game would get some pretty weird looks. Any 250-year-old would!Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
You think? I dunno. When crowds increase now and again with the promise of impending success, is there not a hint of derision towards who the regular supporters perceive to be "fair-weather fans"? I've certainly witnessed it on forums. I know that is often related to a later subsidence in support when times are tougher, but everyone has to start somewhere and everyone supports in different ways and measures.Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
Is that the polite term for event junkies? You're such a diplomat. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
You make good points though. Would expect no less from the best poster on the international forum of late. I think it's a great shame that the general Irish public don't get behind our national league, never mind see that a stronger league is crucial to the development of a stronger and better-pedigreed international side in the long-term, but, as I've said before, people are entitled to spend their money wherever they want, be that on EPL/SPL clubs or on something else entirely unrelated to football. Ultimately, responsibility rests with the FAI and clubs to encourage people to take a greater interest in the league.
You're not mistaken, I have no problem describing anybody as a supporter in that situation. I think the whole division of 'real fans' and 'true supporters' is a pointless exercise whoever does it (though I note that posters are quicker to highlight the silliness of these terms when LOI fans use them than when, for example, Tricky Colour made his retarded claim that anybody not singing at the end of the Spain game was not a true fan).Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
As a complete guess, I'd imagine the wording would avoid terms like 'best' and go something like 'rewarding ROI fans for their behaviour and fantastic displays of support during the Euros'.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
With the possible exception of Salthill, nobody at LOI games knows everybody else at the games. We don't look for new faces and ask them if they're 'newbies' so we can abuse them for being fair-weather fans. This season Limerick got an attendance of over 1,000 only once - home to Longford, and we were delighted to get it. Look at our forum after that game. Nobody complaining about fair-weather fans, just disappointed we played so badly that we knew a lot of them wouldn't come back.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
Anybody who would decide based on the 'hostile' posts of the fans on an online forum that they didn't want to go to an LOI game is being incredibly over-sensitive.
Something to put in the trophy room at last!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
We have a 'trophy room' ??
:confused:
"Let's not just go along for the sing-song" Still don't see what's so controversial about what Roy said. But I think the media loves to create controversy with whatever Roy Keane says. Open up the old wounds, get all the Saipan bull**** flowing again. Yes, shame on Roy, being annoyed when Ireland gets thumped 4-0.
What's the title of the award? Will the trophy be paid for by Polish brewers as a thank you? Greatest Alcohol Intake at Euro2012 award?
Correct me if I am wrong but isnt that the same thing?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
True enough, but you would imagine that the best fans in the world would just go along and watch their local teams. i mean how do they need to be encouraged as its live football. Maybe pom pom dancers at half time?Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
Anyway always interesting to see what others make of it all - overall positive comments which is good
http://www.rt.com/sport/football/iri...euro-2012-118/
That may be, but the context of what you wrote was in reply to Stutts.Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
You asked
"Would their perception of the ROI fans change if they knew that a serious majority of those in Poland don't go to LOI games?"
You have answered that question yourself "I have no problem describing anybody as a supporter in that situation."
It's not complicated why the fans were nominated for recognition. The award was for behaviour at the tournament, it starts and finishes at the tournament. Do you seriously think it matters to perceptions as to what particular way they do support football in their homeland? that e.g. it matters if they just play football with some club and not support a semi/pro league team?
Also, assumptions are made by some about other international team supporters, that they are great supporters of their home league. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. I don't know if all those Swedes and Danes who attended the tournament are also great fans of their home league. They may be involved at some of the many levels of the sport just like some Ireland fans. Some may come for the carnival, like some Ireland fans. There are a myriad of reasons why the LOI is one of the most poorly attended leagues in Europe and in stark comparison to the steady rise in what were once comparable leagues in Denmark/Norway.
People who don't think it's worth paying to see so don't go - I have no gripe with them, it's their choice. That includes most people I know.Quote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt
People who just ridicule it annoy me. More often than not they give no consideration to the uphill battle that staging a professional league in Ireland involves, or offer nothing constructive. That includes some people I know, and some journalists.
My post that you've quoted was in response to you asking me if I considered people who don't attend LOI games to be supporters of the national team. I said that I do. It doesn't answer the question I asked regarding the perception of fans of other countries may have of ROI fans.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
You missed the part of my post where I said 'regardless of any award'? I'm not talking about the award, I'm talking about the perception of our fans in the eyes of others, for whom most likely this is their only exposure to Irish football supporters, and the extent to which they might assume that the same passionate support filters down to lower levels of football, specifically the LOI. Would a look at the attendance numbers for domestic matches matter to them? I don't know, so I asked the question. My own guess is their admiration for the ROI fans might be tempered somewhat, but of course others might have a different opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Except that fans of Ireland's national team can't be compared with those of the LOI like with other countries, by foreign fans, as they represent two very different levels of the game...
Also more tenuous material on the Irish team here?
http://www.wsc.co.uk/forum-index/35-...ap-revisionism
Featuring at least one poster from this MB.
Fair point, but only the naive are saying that Irish football fans are the best in the world. I think. At least, I'm confident most people here know better. What's the consensus around the web? Are Irish people basking in such misplaced praise?Quote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt
Should there be an expectation or responsibility upon the Irish public and Irish sports fans to invest time and money in the League of Ireland? Perhaps there should be if Irish football fans are to live up to the delusion that they are in fact the best fans in the world, but, otherwise, I don't think we can necessarily expect people to follow the league out of some form of national duty. People live different lives and do things in different ways; whilst there may be more beneficial ways, there is no one correct way to support football in a certain country, nor is there a single supporting orthodoxy within that support.
Hehe. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
That might well be the case, but the mildly antipathetic mindset exists amongst supporters of the league regardless. Perhaps it's not as widespread as I believe it to be and possibly it's rooted in the frustration you mention, but I also think it's an easy and self-satisfying method by which certain supporters can create a psychological hierarchy of supporters in order to position their supposed superiority and greater worth to their club at the top of that hierarchy.Quote:
Anybody who would decide based on the 'hostile' posts of the fans on an online forum that they didn't want to go to an LOI game is being incredibly over-sensitive.
Also consider when clubs get big turn-outs at finals; supporters of other uninvolved clubs will often mock and patronise the "fair-weather" support of the involved clubs. Are they saying the big turn-out is a bad thing? The ridicule need not just come from those who support the clubs affected; we're looking at this from the perspective of trying to attract more of the Irish public towards supporting the league in general.
Danny,
The same point about 'fair weather' fans applies the world over. And not just in soccer...
Only the naive or those who have the hump that RoI fans got such great accolades at the Euros I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
The RoI was the best supported team at the Euros. That's all the award is, no more and no less and my strong guess is that most people haven't given a second thought about how domestic football is supported.
Osarusan, if the RoI fans gave anyone the idea that Irish fans are passionate about their local clubs and support them in large numbers it'd be the wrong perception. The more knowledgable people will know that we're a small country that can barely support a professional league so will know that the LoI doesn't attract big numbers. But I reckon all anyone thought was that the RoI fans were great during their short visit to Poland and didn't spare a moment to wonder about any other tier of our game.
I also think most people know that international support and domestic support are very different. I think Dutch fans are well behaved and very colourful at major tournaments but I also know that down the years domestic support has been very factional and very often violent, the antithesis of their national team's support.
Also, just to clarify. I have absolutely nothing against the LoI - I supported it for years as many of you know. My beef is with people who think there is only one way or a superior way of expressing one's interest in football. Anyone expressing that view here is almost always a LOI fan. Personally, I thionk football is a broad church and I have my favourite parts of it. My least favourite part of it is the bloated obscene version of the game that the EPL has become, the footballing equivalent of a neo-con conspiracy to make the rich richer and letting the poor borrow too much if they want to stay in touch. The EPL is a metaphor for the light-touch, neo-liberal trickledown economic philisophy that ultiamtely caused havoc in the US and UK.
I think this is where the distinction between a fan and a supporter comes in handy - fandom is passive, watching your tv and hoping whatever team wins; supporting is active, going out and putting your time and money where your mouth is to actually improve the lot of your team. Going to LOI games and cheering the team on has a small but tangible effect on Irish football - buying a Sky Sports subscription unfortunately doesn't. Even going to support clubs with a "proud" Irish tradition like Liverpool or Man United doesn't support Irish football as much as it supports Ryanair and the pubs of north-west England.
I'd say the EPL is less a neoliberal model than Spain or Italy. Compared to those leagues it's a model of wealth distribution.
Actually I hate the Spanish model too, it's just that the EPL is closer to home I suppose. Spain's debts - including huge amounts to the Revenue - individual TV rights, municipal bail-outs etc. are obscene and I'm told that UEFA is more concerned about Spain's model than England's.
To refer to any part of Italian football as a "model" would be paying it a compliment!
Stutts has nailed it yet again with #272. Good stuff.
Letter in today's Times. Did anyone here write it?
Quote:
Sir, – According to figures in The Irish Times on Saturday, the overall attendance at five Airtricity League of Ireland games on Friday night last amounted to a meagre 7,754.The majority of the “wonderful” Irish supporters who caused so much merriment when celebrating the defeats at Euro 2012 obviously have not recovered from their exertions and long travelling to go out and support local soccer.But, no doubt, these dedicated fans will soon turn out in big numbers, as they did thousands of miles away, to boost crowds at League of Ireland matches. – Yours, etc,
There's a lot more to supporting a team than putting money in it. Supporting a team, is part of your life and your identity, and it extends way beyond 90 minutes at the weekend, whether it be at the stadium or on a screen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
I said time too, Mr. Post.
This is exactly what I was talking about elsewhere, how many people who went to Poland, or watched the games on TV, and thought about going to a League of Ireland game saw that and thought "well if that's going to be the opinion of LoI fans, I'm not going to bother".Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Posting on a message board is one thing, a letter in a national newspaper is a whole other level
To be fair that would be a petty excuseQuote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979