Anyone read Miguel Delaney in the Tribune yesterday? Given is a great keeper, but not a top keeper......:confused:
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Anyone read Miguel Delaney in the Tribune yesterday? Given is a great keeper, but not a top keeper......:confused:
You should read it again a bit more carefully. He writes that Given arguably veers between World class and the World's elite.Quote:
Originally Posted by an_ceannaire
Heroes of the last line
.
'The title of best keeper in the Premier League is up for grabs although Shay Given and Pepe Reina still look short of the planet's best'
'It's arguably the one aspect that keeps Given moving from world-class to the world's elite. He doesn't completely and emphatically clear out his box for crosses in the manner Schmeichel mastered and Casillas and Gigi Buffon continue to. While Given remains a more spectacular shot-stopper to Reina, the Spaniard arguably averages out in more areas as the slightly more complete keeper.'
and its about right.... lots of us here have agreed on different threads that its his only real flaw its a bit of a non story really. the difrence between pepe and shay is at the start the spainard didnt come for or he missed for crosses and he has worked very hard on it whyle shay has not really shown any real improvment ever. i'm sure hes capable but its a confidence thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
(im a goalie) :)
Shay has improved in other areas, his first touch, his kick outs under pressure and is less afflicted by rushes of blood to the head.
Geysir unfortunately i have to disagree about his kick outs which have been very poor this season, I know city have a new defence and they need time to gel but shay doesnt seem to command the defence that and would like to see a bit of added aggression to the way he treats players who F8ck up.....That said he is guarunteed to stop an almost certain goal at least once a game..... defo our best signing
Fwiw, in my observation, there is a good case for claiming that Given is the best keeper in the EPL at present (certainly the most consistent).
That said, I would not claim he is "world class", in the sense that if you were to include him in a World XI alongside the likes of Messi and Cannavaro etc, it would cause little or no comment.
For I firmly believe that whilst playing standards in the EPL have risen during the last few years, goalkeeping standards have, if anything gone down (at least relatively).
For up until 15 or 20 years ago, top British keepers such as Shilton, Clemence, Jennings and Southall etc were at least as good as those found elsewhere (imo).
And when these declined, they were replaced by genuinely world class foreigners like Schmeichel and (pre-injury) Cech.
Yet for some reason, these have not been replaced at the top clubs by the very top keepers, For example, Van der Saar is undoubtedly a fine keeper, arguably "world class" at his peak. But No.1 at the age of 39 for England's top club?
Ditto Jens Lehmann at Arsenal - a good keeper, no doubt, but always No.2 to Kahn amongst Germans and even then allowed to go on far too long at the Arse.
And I would argue that this decline is most evident in the England team, where imo in years gone by, David James, Rob Green and Ben Foster would be lucky to have gained a dozen caps between them throughout their entire career, never mind vied for the No.1 spot, as they are presently doing.
I think that in those days those goal keepers were a long way ahead of the rest.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
It seems to me that the standard of goal keepers at pretty much all premier league clubs is very good and it is more difficult for the cream to look a cut above.
The lighter ball probably swerves more these days but otherwise some of the conditions probably have improved for keepers. Better referee protection, better pitches around the goal mouth area (mind you this benefits all out field players as well)
Shay Given is a very good goal keeper but he has some weaknesses(could be better at coming and claiming crosses)
I think there's been a shift in what's deemed important in a keeper now. The old-school keepers mentioned above were strong characters, technically good, consistent goalkeepers who managed their box well and took high balls.
Maybe the new balls have caused less emphasis on catching the ball, but the new rules have also led to goalkeepers being the first line of attack in that distribution is becoming more valued than it was. Reina is a great example of this.
Personality is a big attribute. VDS may not be the most gifted keeper but he has the gravitas (for want of a better word) to fill the MU no. 1 jersey, whereas more talented keepers didn't.
I like a keeper to be commanding and to settle his back 4. Given certainly performs the latter. Seaman in the mid 90s was top class and Given is similar in style. I also think Given has the confidence and personality to play at the very biggest clubs.
Given is basically identical to Casilias imo, with Cas probably edging it because he has played for a big team in big matches which Given hasn't. Both have weaknesses which people seem to ignore a lot of the time.
Buffon hands down is the best, he just has everything. He controls his box so well.
yep cech used to be the best IMO but dodgey a lot of the time since his run in with mr. HuntQuote:
Originally Posted by irishultra
Given was caught out big time there by the free kick.
I think Robinho deserves a fair share of the blame for leaving the wall, the ball went through the gap he left.Quote:
Originally Posted by MeathDrog
Yeah true, but I just think that Given should have had it covered.Quote:
Originally Posted by elroy
Given reminds me of Reina a bit. Both know they haven't got the goods to come for crosses (Given's a it short; Reina just lacks co-ordination) but they do a good job of covering for it by organising their defences well. Unfortunately, neither has a fully dependable back four to cover for him.
It was de Jong, not Robinho.Quote:
Originally Posted by elroy
Ah man, gotta feel for Shay tonight, how many great saves does the guy have to make!
Made a great save from Fletcher and then next ball in Rooney scores the winners. Shay deserves to have a half decent defence in front of him.
Ya, some disgraceful defending.
He saves their asses and they do the same thing again 20secs later, and let's be honest Rooney along with the rest of the United attackers are no beasts in the air
Take off the green glasses, made some good saves but was asleep for there first goal, have to do it for 90 minutesQuote:
Originally Posted by gilberto_eire
I actually think Reina is the best keeper in the Premier League at the moment. As good a keeper as Shay is (and he is good) he does have a tendency to stay rooted to his line and sometimes keepers have to come and claim balls or punch balls away just to relieve pressure.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Does Reina do that?
Green glasses?, i only mentioned the save at the end in terms of saving them, it was a top drawer save.Quote:
Originally Posted by Manblue
Only saw the second half but he couldnt have been faulted for any of the goals.
How did he fall asleep for the first?, i shot from 20 yards into the corner :rolleyes:
As a matter of fact he did well to close down Giggs who was in for a 1 v 1 and forced Giggs wide, have a word with the CM's as to why Fletcher and Scholes were standing ready to strike on the edge of the box.
Second was well placed into the far corner(off the post) from 6 yards and the 3rd was a free header from 5 yards (after he did well to deal with one 20secs earlier)
So if he's called into action 4 times,three times from 5 yards and a 3rd from 20 yards and manages to save one of them i don't see how he had a bad game.
http://www.betscout.com/soccer/match...anchester-city
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Originally Posted by Maroon 7
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Originally Posted by gilberto_eire
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Originally Posted by Manblue
Would agree that while Shay is a world class shot stopper and keeper generally the only slight fault with his game can be that he's sometimes reluctant to come off his line. However as Gilberto says he did very well to stop Giggs scoring in the build up to the first goal and couldn't have done anything more to prevent it so please take off the WUM glasses Manblue.
Whoever was commentating the match last night said that Given could of come off his line in the lead up to the first goal. I thought so too but when they showed a replay of the goal's build-up from behind Given, it's clear that he made the right choice and did well in pushing Giggs wide. As for the actual goal itself, the shot took a deflection off the studs of a defender's boot and Given was left helpless.
I think Given could have claimed that ball if he had come out decisively.Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
Given's starting position was on the edge of the box. When the ball is kicked to Giggs there are at least three City defenders around Giggs and Given is backing back towards his goal-line when Giggs receives the ball. Giggs somewhat miscontrols the ball with his first touch and it's then Given goes out to close him down. Given is backing away from the ball and then needs to move towards the ball, whilst Giggs is in full flight and running in the same direction as the ball. There's no way Givens could get to the ball - the only thing we could do was close the angle for a shot - which he did. There's no way he could have known that 3 defenders would fail to deal with a cross field pass so he was correct in moving back towards the goal when that long pass was played.Quote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
I'm more inclined to point the finger at City's defenders, although I do agree that Given can be slow off his line on occasion. But I don't think he was at fault here.
joe hart or given will be in the EPL team of the year as both have been outstanding all season. we can all analyse and be critical of the odd goal here and there that given conceded over the season but the protection in front of him is poor at best a lot of the time. this is bound to affect any GKs thinking during a match yet given has still been superb all season. its been said before but whoever in man city thought it was a good idea to sell dunne is an idiot
http://footyroom.com/stoke-city-1-1-...-city-2010-02/
Whelan's goal, can't find his thread.
Struck it well.
It wasn't a particularly brilliant strike. Given just had a shocker - he was at fault for the wrongly disallowed goal at the end too.
God, that was awful from Given. He got down early, he was right behind the ball when he got his hands to it, he just totally messed up the save.
http://stuff.pmck.net/given.jpg
Having said that, the defending right up to when Whelan hit the ball was comical. Touré was slow to get near him and ended up turning his back on the shot.
Given I feel is not as good as people make him out to be, some people say he is World Class but not by a long mile. A good EPL keeper and dependable 80% of the time. Has done really well for Ireland but I think he is becoming more error prone as the season goes on. He was stupid not to have left Newcastle at an earlier time and face it he has gone to another circus at Manchester City.
If every keeper was put under this kind of ridiculous scrutiny, then every single one of them would look shoddy. Given, with Reina, has probably been the most consistent goalkeeper in the EPL over the last few seasons. And I think his shop stopping is second to none. Sure he's not perfect, he made a howler last weekend - but his howlers are really few and far between. Also for the entire duration of his career he's never had the privilege of playing behind a really decent defence. Unlike plenty of other overrated GK's.
Wenger must be kicking himself for not getting Given for Arsenal.
Shay just ****ed up his shoulder making a save. Does not look good.
Yeah if we were going to the world cup, this would be a complete nightmare.
Horrible scenes, doesnt look good. Bringing out the oxygen isnt a good sign. Hope the prognosis isnt as bad as it looks.
Maybe Thierry Henry could have filled in?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Legend
Makes it worse that he injured himself making the only save of that awful, awful match.
Mancini looked genuinely concerned, Stephen ****** langer Ireland was laughing like a schoolboy.........
According to the Independent, it is a "suspected broken shoulder".
Given was in extreme pain and it was hard to watch. His season is obviously over, let's hope he's good to go in time for the start of the season in August.
Having seen it again, I wouldn't overstate the oxygen aspect. He took a bit but then he pushed it away. Still looks a nasty injury, but maybe not as awful as it looked.