quite pleased because it was an entertaining enough game and there are probably more positives than negatives to take despite the result. however, the back four choice, particularly kelly in the centre still baffles me even after trap has tried to justify it. keogh is also never a winger in a million years, why has trap got it into his head that he is? fahey should start every game.
He was shooting blanks tonight anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yard of Pace
Agree Noely. Midfield remains an issue and while Gibson did pretty well against Macedonia, he did nothing tonight. With Meyler, O'Hara, Reid and McCarthy we would have 4 midfileders who would bring consistency, bite and skill to a team seriously lacking that at the moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar
Welcome aboard.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Tickets please.
Exactly. It was a good few days for once and looking like an interesting immediate future. Also No more McCarthy nonsense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Any highlights of the game anywhere?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lnfXyAgN1cQuote:
Originally Posted by Torn-Ado
Goals here.
Westwood: Can't be blamed for any of the goals, claimed everything in the air, and make a magnificent double save
Foley: Similar to Saturday, didn't play well with the winger in front of him, but was probably the most solid of the defence
Kelly: Anonymous at best, didn't lead as a captain, and didn't organise his defence as Dunne would have. Unless he gets back into the Fulham side, he's dropped to 3rd choice right full
O'Dea: Not as impressive as Saturday, but still pretty good. Seemed to cover for Kelly and Clark at times, and nearly did it too
Clark: Impressive step overs early on apart, he was the biggest disappointment on the night, neglected his defensive duties to push forward far too often
Keogh: Like all his performances on the wing, I'm giving Keogh a free pass because he simply shouldn't play there. Improved immeasurably when he moved up front
Fahey: Any and all doubts I had about him at central midfield are gone. Excellent penalty too (see below)
Green: Played right at the limit of his ability, but still short at this level. Improved as the game went on
Lawrence: Assist apart, I didn't think he played well. Not badly, just not well. Is now behind McGeady and Duff for a starting position on the wing
McCarthy: Some nice touches, but didn't get involved in the game enough to judge accurately
Long: Sublime, possibly the best performance by a lone striker I've seen for Ireland. Will be playing Premier League football next season, with or without Reading
Subs
Gibson: Seemed to lose the ball under his own feet a lot
Treacy: Needed more time to make a bigger impact, but still managed some decent crosses and a strong shot when he seemed to have overbalanced that was saved
Delaney: Strengthened the weak left side of the defence, didn't do enough to decide if he should come into the team
Stokes: Not on long enough to make an impact. Good to see he's in Trapattoni's thoughts
McGeady: Came on to give the crowd, and the team a boost, made a massive step up since moving to Russia
After a dire first half when all we seem to do was launch balls the edge of our box (usually from O'Dea, but also Westwood), we were deservedly behind at half time. The defence was badly missing Richard Dunne's organisation, and Kilbane's experience.
Second half was a whole other game. Spurred on by the early penalty from Fahey we played some great, pressing, attacking football and should have come away with at least a draw.
For those who think that Robbie Keane should be dropped, consider this - with him in the side either of Keogh's chances would have been converted.
For those who think that Robbie Keane should not be dropped, consider this - in the build up to Long's goal, Long won the ball in the air and hit the ground hard. Keane would have thrown his arms in the air and called for a free, Long was straight up, ran into the box and converted a header.
Just watching the highlights on RTE, if Fahey's early shot had gone in off the keeper's gloves, instead of looping over the bar, how different would the game have been?
Incidentally, despite the low numbers, the crowd still made a lot of noise, maybe even more than the weekend
My shot of Fahey's penalty, from where I was sitting in the upper tier in the south stand
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_1...6/IMAG0014.jpg
Excellent photo tets, widescreen - the long version.
Pretty shocking defending for the first goal, seem like they were trying to play the offside trap or something, never a good idea IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Supreme feet
I thought Shane got up well for the goal, however in the interview I was surprised he looked so short next to Stephen Kelly.
I always thought he was well over 6' but he is 5'11 apparently.
I guess because his name Long I expected him to be taller.
I assume by this you mean James should be in from the start? Couldn't agree more. It's nailed on now in midfield for me. McCarthy and Fahey in the middle of the middle with Duff and McGeady on the flanks. I'd have Robbie and Walters up front against Macedonia away (and in so doing would be really doing a disservice to Shane Long, because he has been nothing short of superb). But I just feel like we're going to need an aerial presence against them away.
McCarthy should be played in the Paul Scholes role, coming short for the defenders to pick up the ball, and Fahey is brilliant in a green shirt - holds the ball well and uses it brilliantly. To a man every one of the Irish players last Saturday said how good Macedonia were on the ball. When is Trap going to realise that he needs players who can hold possession as much as give it away (Dunne, O'Dea, O'Shea, Kilbane)?
I thought Uruguay were as poor defensively as we were. But all in all more positives than negatives to take from last night's game.
Westwood had another competent performance.
I thought Kelly was our "best" defender on the night but as a defensive unit we were all at sea. Less positive about Foley starting for us based on the two games. O'Dea can fill a hole against medicore opposition, nothing more. Clark didn't have a good game.
Midfield - by his standards, I thought Green had a good game :). Fahey makes it all look so effortless, McCarthy was effectively double-marshalled by Uruguay's deep lying midfielders. Keogh and Lawrence both gave energetic performances, Lawrence's cross on his weaker foot for Long's goal was sublime.
Long played himself into contention again after a generally poor run out against Macedonia.
Happy we tried something new formation wise. Two more friendly games before the trip to Macedonia - so ample opportunity to get the defence into shape.
Yes, we'd have pressed our advantage home like we always do! I think we play better when behind. Bari, Paris...Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
I think Green's performance was down to having the three in midfield. I would speculate that Whelan would have looked better in that system too. 4-5-1 makes a lot of sense for us but picking one from Long, Doyle and Keane is not an easy decision.
I don't think he should be dropped but Keogh's header was very similar to the header Robbie missed late against Czech Rep., where he failed to anticipate the defender (keeper?) missing the ball, and sent a tame header wide of an open goal.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Keogh's second miss wasn't as bad as Robbie's miss in Slovakia, a near identical situation when Long sent in a sumptuous low cross. Keogh had less time to react than Keane.
Good point about the arm waving though.
Just saying :)
Fair enough, I'd forgotten those misses. After seeing Keane's goal at the weekend, I think he might be becoming more of predatory striker as he enters the latter stages of his career, and I think he would have done better than Keogh.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Good game, well worth the trip to LR. Not getting into the issue of tickets but from an optical point of view it doesnt look good. There may well have been 20k at the match but nonetheless FAI should consider closing tiers for friendlies if its going to be like this. At least concentrate the crowds in certain areas.
Long played very well and my god did he look fast. All positives from him......pushing for a start.
Westwood, another solid performance, some good saves and he is good in the air. Another pushing for a start.
Defensively we were quite poor but then the back 4 was very makeshift. Clark/Foley did ok. I wondered if O'Dea was good the other night because Dunne was beside him and I suspect so. Dunne will be a big loss away to Macedonia, we will need JOSH and Sledge available for that.
Green and Fahey did ok, I would argue they looked more composed as a pairing than the two lads on sat night.
McCarthy was only alright, didnt get involved as much as I would like. But the lad is very young, lets give him time. Im now starting to think Fahey and McCarthy may not work in the middle just yet. Any thoughts on this? I just feel that neither is particularly good at breaking up play, both are good on the ball but dont ask me why this keeps coming into my head but remember the CM pairing of Kilbane and Ireland in Cyprus??
Disappointed with Lawrence, one of my favourite Irish players and bar the cross the goal I thought it offered little considering he should be pushing for a place in the team. Very slack from him for their third goal.
Keogh was ok, but I dont think a realistic option at his current level.
Uruguay looked a very good team, very slick passing, great finishing. Not surprised they got as far as they did in the WC.
It looked to me like Keogh was afraid of smacking into the post. Any one of us would just love to take a smack off a post to score a goal for Ireland!Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
It was a 4-4-1-1, I wouldn't use the three central midfielders argument to take away from Green's ok performance. McCarthy was so far forward he couldn't be seen to have contributed in midfield.Quote:
Originally Posted by PatJR
Let's not tip toe around some issues. Clark had a terrible game as a defender. He was caught out of position on a number of occasions and but for Keogh scampering back to try and plug the gap, it could have been far worse. He also drifted inside a lot. McCarthy was for the most part anonymous. Neither player did anything to suggest they are worth a place in the side. Ok, they were playing in a new team and I have no doubt they will get better but on the basis of what I saw, their time has not yet come.
Only two positives for me. Long and Fahey. Whether Fahey can defend, I am not convinced but creatively he is better than either Gibson or Whelan.
There might have been a bit of that, but I watched it just now on SKY and it looks like he just couldn't wrap his head around the ball. He was standing parallel to the goalline whereas he needed to be facing 45 degrees to his right, which he might have been had he anticipated Green missing the ball.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
My main memory from watching it in real time was that we shipped an awful lot of chances, but having watched it again it's got to be said so did they. Long made a bit of a botch of the rebound from Keogh's shot, Keogh's misses, Treacy's shot. If you ewatch the incident that led to Keogh's miss, Delaney was practically rugby tackled to the ground and the time Long went down under a challenge - that could have been given. Houghton said in the commentary that it was the defender just being stronger. It was just as much a shove.
Anyway, at least last night showed who we can rely on and who we can't.
Westwood not a positive?Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
I agree with you on Clark & McCarthy. Clark was poor, McCarthy was neither good nor bad, he just never really figured.
Thanks for all the comments lads. Just watched the goals on Youtube but otherwise i'm relying totally on foot.ie! Really helpful and interesting reading as always.
Their second goal looked like a bit of a shambles by us. Its 5 v 7 and yet they manages to find Cavani in acres of space to tuck it away. To be honest though, with such an inexperienced back 4 who've never played together, i'm not surprised to see/hear that there were frailties. Was always going to happen.
I'll admit i'm completely biased when it comes to Long, but its still great to hear everyone raving about his performance. Some players like/suit international football, and some don't. Even when he wasn't starting regularly at Reading he still looked to me like he could cut it in a green shirt. He must have a pretty good scoring record for us now?
There were some negatives and some positives from last night, but all in all this was a great opportunity for the second stringers to have a run out v a really decent team. There's no shame in losing 3-2 to the WC semi finalists with the team we put out (though the fact that they also lost 0-2 to Estonia does slightly detract from that point!)
Uruguay used their reserve goalkeeper for the game again Estonia and he was at a fault for both goals.
Ok so all of us were wrong about somethings, but most wont admit it bar me. :D
Long i wasn't sure about and thought I had been justified given his relatively poor performance against macedonia, perhaps the knock and the bandage around his head interfered with his sight, because his timing on saturday for rising to head the ball was very poor. 1 bad performance but 1 great performance, jury still out for me but I definitely wouldn't be worried about throwing him in for the last 30 minutes in Macedonia if we need a goal.
keogh was out on teh wing but he came in a lot yesterday so i dont buy this lets feel sorry for him, he is still so slight and meek looking, perhaps if he built himself up he might be better, but he looked like a boy against men last night, his touch was dire so many times he took the wrong option and was afraid to get hurt when it mattered.
O'dea is not up to scratch simple as, as usual clouded judgement on a 20 min period in the second half against a tiring Uruguay forwad line who took their foot off the gas. He had kelly in first half running all over the place trying to cover his lapses. Simple against a decent quick, athletic and agile forward line he is shocking i.e. Not international standard.
Clark was too eager to impress going forward that he forgot about his defensive duties, but if he went forward then keogh should have been willing to go back. HIs positional sense was very poor, but thats something that will come with playing the position regularly. I also thought he didnt commit to that challenge based on what Trap said about giving away a penalty etc. A lot to learn defensively but thats not a problem thats easily learned, he has far more skill than kilbane has and he doesn't hoof it forward, which isn't learned its natural ability.
Fahey is not good enough defensively but he always turns into space and holds the ball up that second longer especially when facing goal, in order to create more space and bring about a quick pass to midfield or the wings, so unlike green. He creates a great outlet and is a great reader, more importantly he doesn't panic.
Green tries hard.
Mcgeady sprayed the ball about briliantly when he came into the middle and started to run the show. Perhaps EB has been right all along about this one...
I think we are all agreed that if we could find the right DM then fahey is the obvious partner.
Keogh is a nice lad.
Foley proved what many of us were afraid of and that he is suspect defensively good going forward and playing on the ground but he gets caught out. I think all this shows Wolves problem this year really, Ward being another fine example.
What i really think we are missing now is a really competent Defensive midfielder or a midfielder with Faheys ability going forward and whelans tackling(as limited as it is) which leads to Stephen Reid.
Mccarthy couldn't get into the game, but I put that down to trust from the CMs and also from the game played by westwood who kept hoofing it forward, he never really got a chance, i still think he should have dropped deeper to try and get more involved and influence things, but when he was involved he looked good.
Good to see some humility from Trap, and good to see that he gaves stokes and delaney game time after calling them up last minute, shows a good side to Trap.
So all in all, I have a slightly different view of how Trap sees things now, and for a lot of it he is right.
Post match comment.
Stephen Kelly who spoke of his pride in leading out the Boys in Green in his home town.
"Being from Dublin and growing up watching Ireland and playing for your country, for me is the epitome of everything, the highest accolade you can achieve in football.
"And then, to be captain ... it has just been a spectacular day for me. I can't wait to look back on it. This is such a huge honour and I am so privileged to be allowed do it."
I was thinking of reading your post paul_oshea but after reading your earlier contributions to the thread, I changed my mind. :)
No worries Ifk101, you probaby wouldn't understand it anyway :)
I really rate McCarthy and I think his anonymity was more down to being played out of position than anything else. That said, he should have tried to impose himself on the game more. I think he could have dropped a bit deeper at times trying to link things up, I'm sure Trap would have allowed this. When a player isn't involved it has to go down as a bad performance surely? Doing nothing wrong because you've barely touched the ball is ok for a centre back or goalkeeper, but for an attacking midfielder it's just poor. I'm sure he'll have better days ahead, I just hope Trap isn't too rigid with regards to playing him off the front man, where he didn't look really comfortable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Very refreshing statement from Kelly. He didn't complain about being played out of position, he just got on with it. Its a pity other fellow countrymen didn't have the same attitude.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
It was a good post.
I'm not sure we're arguing the same point on O'Dea. I don't think he's international standard either and would be quite happy if he never had to be capped again. However, with no fit high-standard CB available to partner Dunne, O'Dea was certainly not a ridiculous choice, and luckily for us he did his job well on Saturday. Last night O'Dea played OK for parts of the game but was exposed sufficiently to show his limitations. I think the same could be said of all the back 4, and if I could erase the memory of Georgia at home I'd be inclined to rank Kelly ahead of Foley at RB, but lack of game-time is a major worry.
Do people think Delaney should keep his squad place? I do.
He didn't have to do an awful lot did he in fairness? I thought he looked a bit heavy. But he kept his position better than clark, still he is 28 or so isn't he? If its him or clark then you have to stick with clark given his age.
Ya of course if you don't have anyone else available then you have to select him. Perhaps the opinion has changed on him? Or perhaps I mistook people advocating his selection and saying it was justified for saying he was a competent and capable defender?
I think the fact he made kelly captain, was for his age and experience and that georgia game showed nerves and a lack of experience as he didn't show a cool head. I think I would have kelly there too ahead of foley. I suppose it shows that ousdie our first choice back 4(even then ) we are very weak really.
Can't disagree with that. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
I think you have IFk ;D where is the winkie smiley gone? Where is the fly when you need him...
also, the pitch was awful with snow etcQuote:
Originally Posted by geysir
I've gotten down to the part where you say "Keogh is a nice lad". That can be interpreted in many ways. Especially after saying this previously;Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
"keogh was out on teh wing but he came in a lot yesterday so i dont buy this lets feel sorry for him, he is still so slight and meek looking, perhaps if he built himself up he might be better, but he looked like a boy against men last night, his touch was dire so many times he took the wrong option and was afraid to get hurt when it mattered."
Ok well seeing as you read it i think you deserve a reply :)
Keogh comes across as a really nice lad, in any interviews or whatever ive seen of him, and he has gone to a lot of the lads weddings ive noticed in the press(and Paul Mcshanes sister i think too :)), he is obviouslly a good addition to have around the squad - whatever he offers morale, motivation, good craic -and Trap obviouslly likes him. And I feel that its almost this loyalty and whatever he offers around the place might see him being unfairly picked ahead of other players, given how poor his performances have been for us. The other point about not feeling sorry for him I meant as in because he was being played out of position, as he came in quite a lot and i think it was more in the second half he was out on the left.
I didn't think Keogh had a bad game all things considered. As mentioned earlier in the thread he helped alot with covering Clark defensively, got himself into the box on a few occasions and can count himself unlucky not to have gotten a goal.
Given the players we started the game with, I would have moved McCarthy into Fahey's position, Fahey to the left and Keogh into McCarthy's position behind Long. Fahey is much better in the center but he is more effective on the left to Keogh based on previous performances. Keogh's best when playing "in the hole" while McCarthy looked like he had never played in that position before.
I'd have no issues with O'Dea still being the reserve CH.
It's a partnership and even if Dunne wasn't as sharp on Saturday, there is a world of difference to a rookie like O'Dea if he has Dunne by his side in an important qualifier than without any experienced partner, like last night.
Are both O'Dea and St Ledger left sided CH's?
Did Dunne not play left side first half anyway against macedonia?
I see the point re: Odea but wasnt the reasoning behind Traps selection put forward that he had experience playing in CL etc and that he is 24 years of age now, that he is no longer a rookie? By rookie do you mean that he isn't of the same standard and games behind his belt as Dunne? Or a young inexperienced newbie? Either way he has been around the Irish squad and Celtic a fair time now, over 2 years with Ireland and with celtic since 2006(senior appearance i think).