It's not discriminating in any way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Predator
I haven't a notion what your talking about with the "Big Book of Catholic names" comment.
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It's not discriminating in any way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Predator
I haven't a notion what your talking about with the "Big Book of Catholic names" comment.
I suppose emotional influence, or however you'd put it, as opposed to de jure influence may have been at play, but obviously it's very difficult to prove something if it's not in writing. Seeing FIFA threaten the Spanish federation with sanction or expulsion would indeed be interesting drama considering Spain are the current World Cup and European champions.Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
Ne'er mind their current status as jammy wc winners. Non-members haven't a hope really.
How is it not? It is a process of "flushing out", as you say, "waverers" - distinguised by their dual nationality and hearsay. Why don't you just let players get on with it? If they want to change they will do so in their own time - suspected individuals shouldn't be singled out for special treatment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
The FFF had a similar incident just recently where some proposed a 'quota' on dual nationals.
I'm poking fun at the OWC accusations of the FAI being sectarian. I recall one poster suggesting that the 'men in the FAI jackets' had a child-catching kit, with a big net and book of Catholic sounding names.Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
In seriousness, how do you know who is an FAI target and who is not? Or who may be in two minds about the FAI and the IFA?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
Probably both, but it's not as if the FEF would need any encouragement to complain. Granting Gibraltar association status would sent the Catalans and the Basques into fits. Possibly the Valencians too.
What????Quote:
Originally Posted by Predator
We are told, constantly, that all players eligible are welcome to the ranks of the FAI.
All Northern Ireland players are Dual Nationals.
I give you the example of Shane Ferguson.
Is he good enough for the Northern Ireland senior squad? Absolutely.
Are the FAI sniffing? Yes Sir.
Should the IFA have selected him for the recent senior qualifiers squad? Yes.
Should that be a lesson? It should be - but it's the IFA we're talking about here.
Where is the problem with this?
Oh right - fair enough. I remember poking fun on here at the knob who told us that David Healy was receiving sectarian abuse from Northern Ireland fans, because he was a "Catholic". (Healy being a "Catholic" name....apparently!)Quote:
Originally Posted by Predator
With regards to FAI targets - The evidence produced so far by the FAI indicates criteria of a player being from a "nationalist background".:D
What evidence? Is there any evidence that the FAI target particular players? I remember EG claimed something with regard to Chris Baird a long time ago - not even sure if there was a source cited - but other than that...
It would be interesting to see what the FAI would do should a young Protestant sensation come through the NI ranks. I suppose Jonny Evans was the last one?
And I think what Predator is getting at is the idea that if the IFA are to begin attempting to pre-empt the switching of players to the FAI that they might fear due to socio-cultural background and demographic reality, they could very easily fall victim to the same accusations the FAI do from NI fans when they're being lambasted for apparently targeting young nationalist footballers on a sectarian basis.
Probably the same thing they usually do; wait for some indication of interest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Nah - stuff that.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
Just approach them, and get Tardelli to make the "we'd like you"..."contact us, if you like" noises.
It goes like this:
"He hasn't indicated to us, but I like him," smiled the Irish No 2. "There are many ways for him to contact us."
Don Givens can do the confirmation that the FAI have made the approach.
An alternative might be for the IFA to not select "young nationalist footballers" until they approach the IFA asking to be considered. Parity with the FAI, and all that.:pQuote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
Have the FAI made the approach? Or did Ferguson make his intentions clear to the FAI?Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
Seems very much like the FAI made the approach to me - given the words of both Givens and Tardelli. Couple that with an interview Ferguson gave to a Northern Ireland fanzine recently.Quote:
Originally Posted by Predator
It's also apparent that Ferguson is not at all "clear"... "he hasn't indicated to us" / "There are many ways for him to contact us."
...former Irish under 21 boss Don Givens confirmed that the FAI had approached Derry-born Shane Ferguson about the possibility of playing for the Republic of Ireland....“Shane is still kind of making his mind up but Mick Martin has spoken to him,” Givens told journalists.
Either that, or the words of Givens and Tardelli are not disguised very well.
Or perhaps we should listen to what the players say.Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
Marc Wilson “It’s the best honour you can get to represent your country – it’s always been a dream of mine to play for Ireland”
Darron Gibson “It was unbelievable you know, making the debut for your country. Everyone from Derry wants to play for Ireland. I grew up supporting Ireland, so it was a natural choice for me”
Shane Duffy "I’ve always supported the Republic since I was a young kid, It’s a dream come true for me "
Tardelli's words indicated that contact hadn't been made by the FAI and that the ball was in Ferguson's court whilst Givens' words don't necessarily indicate a huge deal; certainly not a sectarian targeting scheme. For all we know Ferguson, a family member or a friend might have contacted the FAI in order to learn more or to test the viability and implications of making a switch. The FAI might then have entrusted Mick Martin with having a chat or something to run things through; who knows? Maybe Ferguson spoke with Mick Martin in an informal, off-the-cuff sort of fashion. It would be entirely plausible. After all, Martin is a former Newcastle captain and is based in the area now doing regular radio work in relation to the club. Chances are he might have been around the training ground and bumped into Ferguson, deciding to have a chat with him about it. In fact, is Martin even employed by the FAI?Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
Not at all. The FEF do not represent Gibraltar as it is a different state. They readily represent Catalunya, Euskara, Andalucia, Galicia, Castille etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
I see where you're coming from. I feel that it was more political pressure from the government than any sort of real will from the FEF.
I'd be against any former colony receiving such status whilst still a colony.Quote:
I also meant to add that I don't think FIFA are obliged to adhere to CAS rulings, but they generally tend to as they'd appear less accountable that way than they already do. I'm open to correction on that though, but I am aware that the Gibraltar Football Association, for example, applied for UEFA membership and had it refused after the Spanish association kicked up a fuss and threatened to boycott competition. This was in spite of Gibraltar taking their case to CAS who ruled that they did in fact have valid grounds for UEFA membership and satisfied FIFA's criteria for confederation membership. More about it on Wiki here.
"On August 25, 2006, it was proposed that Gibraltar will become a provisional member of UEFA. However, a decision on granting this was postponed in October 2006. The decision was made on December 8, 2006 that Gibraltar will be made provisional members of UEFA: FIFA had announced two days earlier that their executive committee had "ruled that Gibraltar does not meet the statutory requirements to become a FIFA member", despite the fact that the Court of Arbitration in Sport had already ruled to the contrary.
On January 26, 2007 Gibraltar membership had been rejected by the UEFA Board with only 3 out of 52 votes supporting Gibraltar's claim. Spain was the strongest opponent to Gibraltar joining UEFA, even threatening to boycott any competition in which the Gibraltar national team would compete.
The issue has again been referred back to the Court of Arbitration for Sport for a ruling."
An independent country/region, eg. a UN member would be a different case.
And don't be too hard on NB as he's the only regular Northern-based poster from the 'other' side....
Which would bring the status of England, Wales, Scotland and Not Brazil bit into question? Non?Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Not to mention the Faeroes.
Well exactly, but I think we might :rolleyes: just have covered that in numerous threads 'passim'.
:eek:
Just saying...
To be fair to all concerned, it's all been well covered already. Though I'm sure if you wish to revisit, sure you'll find some takers?
Let's just say he is known to scout for the FAI.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
Whether the FAI made the first approach to Ferguson is unclear. It's likely that they were tipped of Ferguson's interest in playing for us and followed up on that with the player himself. This surely happened in the case of Adam Barton and we know happened in the case of Shane Duffy. There did/ does exist an understanding between the FAI and IFA that the FAI will not make the first move in approaching players that can be perceived in some quarters as IFA players. Under this agreement it is up to the player to initiate his desire to play for the FAI. However with the CAS ruling, and it reaffirmation of the application of the eligibility statutes, there isn't any compelling reason for the FAI to comply with this given the IFA brought them to court on the issue of selecting NI born Irish nationals for its representative sides. In light of this, it is possible that the FAI made the first approach in relation to Ferguson and that Ferguson prior to this approach had no intention of switching. However given certain media outlets willing to highlight the possibility of Ferguson switching to the FAI, the player himself might now feel he has no other choice than to switch as his loyalty to the IFA's cause is in question and will continue to be so.
I take grave offence at this comment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
To describe Evans as a "sensation" is absolutely scandoulous.:D
That's great - I'm sure it is a great honour for these boys.Quote:
Originally Posted by co. down green
I'm merely suggesting that the IFA help similarly minded players with "childhood dreams" of playing for the Republic make that dream come true for them - as early in their career as possible, thus freeing up Northern Ireland shirts for those players who's childhood dream it is to play for Northern Ireland.
But the logistics of playing underage soccer would dictate otherwise. The ifa link in with schools. I can't see how some lad from Dungannon who would-be of a nationalist bent and has had as a dream to one day play for Ireland being able to join the FAI underage set-up until he's old enough to enable him to not have to rely on the parents for trips south etc. And that's assuming he's not in an English academy at that stage.
The FAI could start setting up academies in the six if you would rather not have ni jersies 'wasted' on prospective southerners?
The FAI can arrange their travel to camps etc in the South.Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
I'm sure parents who want their kids to play for the South would have few issues with travelling a few extra miles to assist their kid realising their childhood dream.
The FAI could set up camps in Dundalk and Letterkenny, for example, that would facilitate Northern Irish born kids - if they haven't already.
The IFA should continue their work with schools - schoolboy football is a different kettle of fish. Anyone wishing to attend IFA run school based events should be free to continue to do so.
If the player is at an English academy, there's no problem - it's as easy to get to the Republic as it is Northern Ireland from the UK.
Beyond schoolboy football, Northern Ireland jersies should be for those kids who harbour childhood dreams to play for Northern Ireland, and mainland born British Citizens who are eligible (and want) to play for Northern Ireland, provided, of course, they meet the requirements of Article 16.
Any Northern Irish kid who tries his luck with the FAI, and finds, subsequently, that he wants to play for Northern Ireland (for whatever reason) could approach the IFA and make his intentions (and availability for selection) clear - I'm sure, if good enough, they'd be most welcome.
What's the story with Caolan Lavery? The IFA robbed him from the Canucks it? I see Spurs are linked to a half a mill bid for him.I see Spurs are linked to a half a mill bid for him. Is he qualified for us too?
Depends on the parents.
I'm aware that in the case of Duffy, Sean Caffrey made a point of not contacting the player in spite of obvious interest from the player; Duffy attended an FAI training camp and there was plenty of talk on here, other forums via family members (ToffeeTalk, for example) and the local media that he'd rather be playing for Ireland. It wasn't mere rumour either. Furthermore, he even has a father from Letterkenny, yet the FAI were only willing to engage once Duffy initiated contact to declare his intentions officially, which, whilst frustrating to observe as NI continued calling the player into squads, demonstrated how sensitive the FAI were with the issue of selecting northern-born players. I don't think this policy difference, if you will, was ever made known to Duffy who, at the time, probably felt a little confused as to why the onus would be on him as distinct from other Irish players with whom the FAI would have no problem contacting first.Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
Of course, you're entirely correct. It would be reasonable to view the IFA taking the FAI to CAS as a breach of what had been previously agreed between the two associations. I suppose I was just trying to dispel notions that the FAI are pursuing some sectarian selection policy because it's both ludicrous and annoying, being entirely without foundation, yet appears to be such a prevalent belief within the NI support-base.
I also agree with your final point. I wonder would NI fans be happy to see him line out for them in future knowing he is still in the process of considering a switch. Whether he contacted the FAI, had someone do it on his behalf or failed to shun FAI contact, it all clearly demonstrates that he is not entirely dedicated to their cause.
To the best of my knowledge, anyone with parental or grandparental roots from the island of Ireland qualifies to play for us, so yes. Whether or not the parents or grandparents possess(ed) Irish passports in official acknowledgement of Irish nationality, I don't believe it's necessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by OMTY
That's all well and good, although I've noticed that the tendency has been for northern-born players playing for Derry City - Kevin Deery, Barry Molloy, Marc Mukendi, et cetera - to start out in the under-age squads of the FAI, presumably because they're playing within the FAI's system and the club has formal links to the organisation in Dublin. Meanwhile, for other players from a nationalist background who might have grown up supporting Ireland but played at youth level within the northern system - Shane Duffy (Foyle Harps of the Derry and District League) or Darron Gibson (Institute) - it's the IFA with their formal links and scouting network who will have the first look-in, if you will. Once a young lad is called up by the IFA, progresses through the age categories and forms bonds with coaches, staff and team-mates, it complicates matters as, although he might always have possessed a childhood dream to play for Ireland, he now finds himself, due to what might have been a matter of convenience - geographically, seeming like "the right thing to do" or whatever - and pride at being offered to play a bit of international football, he'll naturally feel like he's letting his coaches and team-mates down if, further down the line, he wishes to pursue what has always been his personal dream. Is a 16 or 17-year-old realistically going to reject what he will primarily perceive as some sort of formal acknowledgement of his abilities? He'll jump at the chance. This is the dilemma Shane Duffy faced and is probably what Shane Ferguson is going through right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
Mind you, Wikipedia tells me that Shane Ferguson played youth football with Derry City from 2001 to 2007, when he moved to Newcastle and received a call-up into the NI under-17 squad. Can anyone confirm this to be true? Martin O'Neill is also alleged by Wikipedia to have played youth football with Derry City, for example, but I'm not aware that this is true either.
I doubt that it is true. I'm nearly 100% sure that Ferguson was part of the Maiden City Academy, which is, I think, the brainchild of Paul Kee and John Cunningham (who were both with Institute). Considering Ferguson's a country lad, having gone to school at St. Mary's Limavady, travelling to the Brandywell would be a long enough trip.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
Link
Interestingly, Gibson was also a part of the academy.
Darron Gibson and Shane Ferguson were both with the Maiden City Academy.
Ferguson is also eligible to play for Scotland via his mother
,As I alluded to, no issues with the 16 or 17 year olds.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
Once the player who holds childhood dreams of playing for the South leaves the IFA schoolboy setup, he should approach the FAI and advise them of his childhood dream and desire to play for the South's representative teams.
I'm sure that there'll be a FAI camp somewhere within the 26 counties, not too inconvenient to anywhere in Northern Ireland, to facilitate this desire.
That'll free up Northern Ireland jersies for post school kids who's childhood dream is it to play for Northern Ireland.
Do you reckon? With the strength of feeling presently being expressed elsewhere regarding this I would doubt it. Particularly if the return to NI colours was due to not making the cut in FAI sides.Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
Wouldn't envisage too many problems - Kane & O'Connor were welcomed back by NI fans.Quote:
Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke
If the IFA really cared about young Derry players, surely they'd equip them with personal jersey and shorts sizes as opposed to a standard XXL. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Predator
http://maidencitysoccer.net/mcs/wp-c...23-300x225.jpg
Thanks for that :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil