2011 Presidential Election

John Connolly (a pro-Israeli blogger, rather than the horror writer) claims that he was leaked the Nawi details by a member of Higgins' campaign team, which is not to say that either Labour HQ or Higgins himself provided any info. For what it's worth, this has reached a whole new level to the first controversy, in that this was entirely Norris's own disaster, due to total naivety and an inexperienced backroom team, who should have been prepping him for every worst-case-scenario type issue. He should have the good sense to cut his losses and make a dignified exit, but it doesn't appear that that's how it will play out.

If this is the case then it's bang goes the FG theory. Though I'd still have issues with his team over the interview issue from a few weeks back. He handled it in a very poor way and became more shrill with each passing moment. The media luvvies in D4 were lapping it up and trying to rescue one of their own, but in doing so were killing his campaign.

Should he quit the race for the park? No, but will he? Probably.

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Originally Posted by culloty82

For what it's worth, this has reached a whole new level to the first controversy, in that this was entirely Norris's own disaster, due to total naivety and an inexperienced backroom team, who should have been prepping him for every worst-case-scenario type issue.

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I repeat, why the assumption that this was mishandled by his team? The implication, from what I've heard at least, is that they resigned because he didn't tell them of this smoking gun. How could they have mishandled something they didn't know about, regardless of how inexperienced they may or may not be?

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Originally Posted by Macy

I repeat, why the assumption that this was mishandled by his team? The implication, from what I've heard at least, is that they resigned because he didn't tell them of this smoking gun. How could they have mishandled something they didn't know about, regardless of how inexperienced they may or may not be?

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Macy, you have a valid point and their resignations seem to have come because of something passed on from a political rival to wipe out his campaign altogether. However I think the point culloty is making (which we'd all concur with) is that when the initial controversy broke - about the interview - whoever was advising him on how to handle it needed a good kicking. He dealt with the issue very badly and even when public support was still in his favour he kept ranting and attacking the "restaurant critic" - showing him in a very poor and nasty light. A good team would have told him to keep his gob shut.

This issue, the letters to Jerusalem, just went above and beyond, yet could still have been met head on and dealt with had he not lost a fair bit of public sympathy from the first event. It will be interesting to see what the 3rd bombshell will be - if the rumour is right.

Finian McGrath, John Halligan and Thomas Pringle have all withdrawn their nominations - hard to see how Norris can gain 20 nominations now.

Press conference this afternoon. This is the end...

Sounds like it. It's a shame and wrong to go out over something like this, though when you see what happened to Adi Roche and the allegations levelled against her....

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/an...n-2836452.html

The other rather damaging link I'd rather not post, but is the headline of the lead article from the same paper today. Over the weekend they were polite and decent, the Indo shoed it's teeth today in a need to sell papers and advertising.

Norris officially pulls out of the race. On Newstalk now, but no links yet.

Edit: just up on RTE - http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0802/norrisd.html

Thanks EG, he's going on Drivetime tonight. I wonder will he resign his Seanaid seat?

I doubt it. I hope not. I suspect that for whoever leaked the info, it's job done.

Bloody shame.

Now who's next in the firing line. Please god be Gallagher.

Even though he's the perfect Trinners head, I still want to see him in the Seanaid, however from the way it's being put in the media right now his position might be untenable. What would happen if DN was a Bishop who wrote to a lawyer to support a priest who had done the same thing?

I don't think he has anything to fear on that account - and I'm not saying it as a fellow (if less than perfect) Trinners head!! Any resignations of politicians for interfering in judicial processes that I can think of have been junior ministers (Molloy, Killeen, Sargent) who resigned the office but not the seat. I reckon there'll be something else to occupy the media within a week or so.

You think it'll take that long? If Rovers win tonight DN will be forgotten about until they go after Mary Davis.

He probably had to go, but it means the only decent candidate has gone. Best of the rest is probably Higgins who will be 81 by the end of the first term.

It really needs a new candidate to enter the field.

I couldn't agree more, but with the nastiness of this campaign and the last two (Adi Roche's brother; Lenihan and the tapes, Pee Flynn's snide remarks about Robinson's newfound interest in the family) who in their right mind would go for it? The only ones used to that kind of thing are politicians - and we have enough of them already.

It's getting late for a new independent to get a council nomination, and anyway there are few enough left if you take out the ones already declared or controlled by FG. So unless FF, SF or the ULA run somebody, we've got Hobson's choice.

I like the sound of this Hobson fella. :)

It's Higgins' now to lose which means that we await the dirt which will be found on him.

Dana.

Just reported on Newstalk: she's interested.

I'm just going to have a little lie-down in a dark room with a cold compress....

Edit: well, that didn't work. Here's the link: http://www.newstalk.ie/2011/news/dan...paign-sources/

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Originally Posted by Eminence Grise

Dana.

Just reported on Newstalk: she's interested.

I'm just going to have a little lie-down in a dark room with a cold compress....

Edit: well, that didn't work. Here's the link: http://www.newstalk.ie/2011/news/dan...paign-sources/

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Jaysus, no. Say it ain't so :(

Norris out. Dana In.

http://www.operatorchan.org/n/arch/s...et_anymore.jpg

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Originally Posted by Eminence Grise

I couldn't agree more, but with the nastiness of this campaign and the last two (Adi Roche's brother; Lenihan and the tapes, Pee Flynn's snide remarks about Robinson's newfound interest in the family) who in their right mind would go for it? The only ones used to that kind of thing are politicians - and we have enough of them already.

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Roche and Robinson were victims of smears, Lenihan and Norris were "victims" of their own past conduct. There's a difference. I think it's ridiculous to lump them together. Additionally, Norris and Lenihan are/were established politicians anyway.

Apart from how information was made public, which I think is what you're referring to, the nastiness is equally present in how the media reported all the cases. Presidential campaigns are like cockfights for the op ed writers and phone-in shows, though not so much for the regular pol corrs who see so much blood it doesn't excite them any more.

Macy, Robinson was a politician too - plus she was one of the toughest and best barristers in the business. There is a real nasty element in Irish politics that has caught so many in the crosshairs. Crooks like Haughey and Bertie escape almost scot free, yet others outside the central circles are not so lucky.

Mary Davis will be next in the firing line, Gallagher hasn't a hope as he's a dead duck. The sad thing is we'll get another geriatric in the Aras for some spurious reason of his past contrinbutions to Irish life.

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Originally Posted by Spudulika

Macy, Robinson was a politician too - plus she was one of the toughest and best barristers in the business. There is a real nasty element in Irish politics that has caught so many in the crosshairs. Crooks like Haughey and Bertie escape almost scot free, yet others outside the central circles are not so lucky.

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Yeah, but it was still a smear on her rather than exposure of something she'd done. It's clear I wasn't a Norris fan, but at the same time I can't see how he has any complaints about what came out. Ditto Lenihan - he was caught rapid. Roche was hung out to dry on something that happened to her brother 30 years or something before, of which there wasn't actually any conviction or anything.

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Originally Posted by Spudulika

Mary Davis will be next in the firing line, Gallagher hasn't a hope as he's a dead duck. The sad thing is we'll get another geriatric in the Aras for some spurious reason of his past contrinbutions to Irish life.

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I'd say they're digging up quotes and photo's of Davis to confirm she's an FFer. It's done for Gallagher - although as I've probably said before, it's his denials that have really done for him.

Michael O'Muircheartaigh and Gay Byrne are the latest to be linked with the presidency.

At the rate we're clocking up candidates, there'll soon be one for everybody in the audience.

As potential official FF candidates - as if Bryne being appointed to the RSA wasn't enough confirmation. Would make Higgins look like a young candidate.

Mitchell is possible trouble over an appeal for clemency for an unrepentant murderer of a doctor who worked in an abortion clinic, and his body guard. There's even audio of the murderer saying he was doing God's work. To me, he'd want to produce evidence of it being part of a general campaign against the death penalty with other letters for non religious fanatics. As it stands, it's worse than Norris's letter. And while I don't believe there was a homophobic campaign against Norris in the media (although I believe Waters and Quinn are putting the boot in today), the way Mitchell's letter is being dismissed so readily is ridiculous.

Good points on the 3 you mentioned Macy, Lenihan was grubby and unfortunately for himself and his family already quite ill. Adi Roche ran foul of FF and they did her in.

In regards to Norris I'd look more to his own failings as a person than to a media witch hunt. In general the media were very kind to him, I still wonder what would have happened if he'd written the letter to defend or give a character reference for a Catholic Priest or an Anglican vicar. It was a monumental (sound like Shane Ross there) error of judgement and showed his neediness, and (sorry EG) how Trinners heads just can't handle the real world :-)

I'm still waiting for the Rape Crisis centre or ISPCC to come out and hammer him, but then again.....

Spud, if you'd spent as long in Trinners as I have (10 years looking for the exit... slow learner, me!) you'd realise that that small plot of 40 acres is the real world!!

Not sure I entirely agree with you on Norris. I agree that it wasn't a media witch hunt, but his flaws and poor judgement were made public by somebody at this time for a political reason - it's been 19 years (and 4 or 5 Senate campaigns) since Nawi was convicted; your average "Concerned Mother of 6" riging Joe doesn't sit on that kind of info for that long.

Macy is right that Mitchell is being given an easier time by the media over his letter-writing indescretion. You might argue that what he did was consistent with the views of the people he represents as we voted to remove the death penalty from the constitution. I'd be pretty sure that most people think pleading for a life (meaning life!) sentence instead of execution is better than pleading for a reduced sentence for statutory rape. Or you could argue that the FG PR machine is a lot better at managing issues than DN's was.

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Originally Posted by Eminence Grise

Spud, if you'd spent as long in Trinners as I have (10 years looking for the exit... slow learner, me!) you'd realise that that small plot of 40 acres is the real world!!

Not sure I entirely agree with you on Norris. I agree that it wasn't a media witch hunt, but his flaws and poor judgement were made public by somebody at this time for a political reason - it's been 19 years (and 4 or 5 Senate campaigns) since Nawi was convicted; your average "Concerned Mother of 6" riging Joe doesn't sit on that kind of info for that long.

Macy is right that Mitchell is being given an easier time by the media over his letter-writing indescretion. You might argue that what he did was consistent with the views of the people he represents as we voted to remove the death penalty from the constitution. I'd be pretty sure that most people think pleading for a life (meaning life!) sentence instead of execution is better than pleading for a reduced sentence for statutory rape. Or you could argue that the FG PR machine is a lot better at managing issues than DN's was.

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As a UCD grad and particpant (unbeaten) in a number of colours matches, always in TCD - Exam hall or JCR, oh and once in the new gym - I can be very biased, though I always bring guests to TCD and a couple of my best friends graduated from it. So I guess it's just age envy :-)

I agree (and said before) that there was a political motive for the leak, though the nature of this second one should have ruled him out anyway. In fact I can't believe his arrogance (he's not a stupid man) to think this was acceptable. And it does seem like it neatly matched up with his views on arab and greek pederasty, so what was he thinking? He still has gotten an easier ride than if it were you or I, or another politician or god forbid a Bishop!

Mitchell will get away with what he did because the party machines will churn on until they've made up our minds for us. FG now have the reins of power and wont' let go easily.

What is it with Irish liberals and Israel / palestine ? Why is this a huge issue ? In what parallel vortex does one's view on Israel have an impact on our presidential election.

Many many many years ago, I was young and needed the money - but I attended 2 Ogra FF meetings. In advance of the third, I got the agenda in the post, and the contents of the agenda ended my connection.

Item 3: Letter writing campaign to Israel

Bear in mind this was the early 90's in Dublin, so no local issues to worrk about - but clearly Yizhak Rabin was bricking himself that Ogra FF was on his case

Utterly utterly pathetic and emblematic of everything that is corrupt in Irish politics - engrossed in theory, fake principle, "taking positions", wrapped up in "issues", but egregiously unqualified and disinterested in actually governing or managing anything

That's a wee bit harsh Angus, surely you can understand why people might be a bit vexed on the topic of Palestine, and anyone who's been to a camp or "zone" will come back a little anti-Israel. I think many people in Ireland get het up basically because of the colonial overtones and unfairness of the situation, without actually realising that (and I am quite far from right wing when I say this) that we need a strong bulwark against the fanatical tide that is just a few miles down the road in Saudi. The Israeli and their backers/apologists behaviour has radicalised hundreds of thousands and this is a danger we see today. However in this debate there is little balance.

My own personal belief is that the topic of Israel suits everyone as it detracts from one of the final acts of ethnic cleansing from the 2nd world war - sending jews off to the desert. It would have been far better to settle them in a depopulated zone of Germany or Eastern Europe, however it didn't make sense to the leaders of the time, plus headbangers were pushing a zionist agenda which suited Stalin, Churchill et al.

I don't disagree that it is a very nasty situation for everyone involved - and I get that. What I don't get is why it has such importance for Irish liberal types; more than Yugoslavia, more than Rwanda, more than East Timor, more than Norn Iron, more than Turkey / Cyprus etc - more than virtually anything.

But back at the ranch, Norris was not done by a conspiracy - he was done by being foolish and by the staggeringly bad misjudgement for which he is renowned. Love him on TV / Radio and he adds to the gaiety of the nation and is entertaining etc - but as Prez ? No chance in hell

The role is all about tone and pitch - and he would be guaranteed to do or say something stupid

And now Gaybo is seriously weighing in as a potential candidate now. Argh!

In the papers today that he has been getting serious funding offers.

So, who will I vote for with such an enlightening group of people as our potential Bill-signer.

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Originally Posted by BonnieShels

And now Gaybo is seriously weighing in as a potential candidate now. Argh!

In the papers today that he has been getting serious funding offers.

So, who will I vote for with such an enlightening group of people as our potential Bill-signer.

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Just heard him riffing with a mic in his face last night about the country's being ruined by "Brussels". Sounded like somebody from UKIP. He should save that bull and have a tilt at the Euros next time they roll around.

At the rate this thing is careering downhill now -I'd rather just have the Queen do the job for us. Better CV.

Oh the irony. Sure remember what SF originally looked for. Oh the vindication of Griffith. ;)

Gents, you are not alone in discussing this.

Sir, – In the absence of serious contenders for the presidency, may I propose a superbly qualified candidate: Name: Liz Windsor. Qualifications: Has successfully done the job on neighbouring island for 62 years. Descended from Brian Bórú. Has the authority to unite Ireland by her signature. Offers middle way between Catholic and Presbyterian churches. Motivated to see Ireland flourish to avoid default on her banks’ loans of €100 billion. All problems solved! – Yours, etc,
http://www.irishtimes.com/letters/in...#1224302231022

When you put it that way...

Gay Byrne is the new favourite. Which is bad enough, before you realise that he'll be succeeded by Pat Kenny in 7/14 years time

Just saw that new opinion poll. Democracy sux.

...then Tubridy around 2040-54... Followed by 28 years of Jedward to 2082.

Let's face it: this century is pretty much effed already!

Seriously wondering whether I'll end up drawing a box on the ballot paper, x-ing it and writing "none of the above" beside it. Not a single candidate so far I would genuinely want to see in the Aras.

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Originally Posted by BonnieShels

Just saw that new opinion poll. Democracy sux.

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Heard Stephen Collins on the lunchtime news saying that he thought it wasn't that good a poll for Byrne*. His logic was that a high profile candidate would expect to start very high and then gradually slip as the campaign went on. He also didn't think he wouldn't run, citing his statements about the EU last night as an example as to why he might not be suitable.

*His opinion was that it was probably best for Higgins overall. I don't get the big hate of Higgins myself, but it appears to me that the INM hacks don't like the thought of it (so that's a ringing in endorsement imo!)