What the FAI thinks of progressive clubs:

What a total mess this has turned out to be. Why on earth would the FAI ever enter into an agreement with a 'third party' that proved negative towards Irish clubs? The fact that they have stated that they don't want to be seen favouring one team over another just makes things even more ludicrous on their part seeing as plenty of clubs have had friendliest sanctioned in previous years. So what if the FAI are also looking to get Barca over to play a match in Dublin next year! Surely having a team like that playing friendliest every year could only benefit the sport in this country in terms of generating interest and much needed revenue for struggling clubs like Limerick.
I'm usually quite positive towards the FAI and trust that they are trying to do the very best they can for football in ireland at all levels. But with this particular incident they really have scored an own goal and have shown themselves up to be very negative towards Irish clubs. To sign an agreement stopping clubs playing friendlies where the capacity is over 20,000 (or is that 15,000? Maybe tomorrow it might be 5,000) is a scandal. It begs the question, who really is in charge of Irish football? The governing body or a secret 'third party' calling the shots on what makes them a profit?
Best of luck to Limerick on this one, I hope they manage to push on and stage the match at Thomond, it can only be a positive for football in the city, no matter what the FAI think.

Why didn't Limerick go to the FAI with their plans when they were being hatched?

I'd wonder whether they knew they were contravening regulations, and decided sure what the hell we'll go for it and they'll bend the rules for us, I mean come on its Barcelona. And if they don't we'll launch a media campaign and the public will side with poor old Limerick over the big bad FAI.

They managed to follow all regulations, and went to the FAI straight away with their proposed Sunderland friendly, so why not this one?

This is not to say I agree with the FAI, not in the least. But I don't think Limerick are as innocent and naive to these contracts as they'll have us believe.

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Originally Posted by kd16

Why didn't Limerick go to the FAI with their plans when they were being hatched?

I'd wonder whether they knew they were contravening regulations, and decided sure what the hell we'll go for it and they'll bend the rules for us, I mean come on its Barcelona. And if they don't we'll launch a media campaign and the public will side with poor old Limerick over the big bad FAI.

They managed to follow all regulations, and went to the FAI straight away with their proposed Sunderland friendly, so why not this one?

This is not to say I agree with the FAI, not in the least. But I don't think Limerick are as innocent and naive to these contracts as they'll have us believe.

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Nonsense to be honest, on numerous levels.

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Originally Posted by Lim till i die

Nonsense to be honest, on numerous levels.

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How so? I may be well wide of the mark but that's my take on it at the moment

It seems the third party is Kentaro. http://www.kentarogroup.com/index.php?id=35

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, association officials have confirmed that League of Ireland clubs were never made aware of any restriction on them in relation to the organisation of major games against foreign opposition

Sherrard, meanwhile, again declined to name the company (Kentaro, the firm that organised the recent friendly against Brazil are the obvious candidates) whose agreement with the association is supposed to be at the heart of the current impasse, or reveal if there are any other restrictions on the way clubs run the business side of their operations due to third party agreements which it has signed up to but declined to mention to anyone

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http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...270599758.html

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The FAI also confirmed today that League clubs were not made aware of the “third party agreement” which precludes the FAI from allowing friendlies above a certain capacity to take place

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http://www.herald.ie/sport/soccer/fa...t-2183054.html

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Originally Posted by kd16

How so? I may be well wide of the mark but that's my take on it at the moment

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Sigh.

Well first off the FAI don't even seem to know which regulations Limerick are in breach of and as such have moved the goalposts thousands of times.

Second off, do you honestly think Limerick have a big massive pr machine ready to take on the FAI?? Bloody dangerous game to be playing even if they did (which I'm pretty sure they don't) given the situation with club licencing.

Thirdly, do you think a club the size of FC Barcelona would have gone on with such a charade for the benefit of feckin Limerick??

Fourthly, you clearly know nothing about the details of the Sunderland game, which is against a Munster XI, is for charity and has been in the pipeline for well over a year I'd say.

I could go on, but whatever, it's late.

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Originally Posted by Lim till i die

I could go on, but whatever, it's late.

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Good man, we have a busy day tomorrow so get some rest. Local politicians need to get their heads out of their holes, wheres the outcry for the lost revenue to the city like their was over a rugby game on good Friday?

So, despite the fact that Noel Mooney told us, and Delaney and then Gavin reiterated that we'd been told on live media, with the FAI statements also reiterating it, it turns out the LOI clubs were not told about it at all -

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...270599758.html

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Speaking yesterday, however, the association’s communications director, Peter Sherrard, confirmed the clubs had never actually been told of any such restriction. Rather, they are simply obliged to accept the association has a power of veto thanks to the sweeping nature of the licensing agreement which all clubs are forced to sign if they want to take part in the league.

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Things are slowly becoming clearer. The FAI sign a secret 3rd party agreement which prohibits clubs in a very specific ways regarding friendlies. FAI felt it unnecessary to tell the clubs that these barriers exists, or any of the details.

The merde hits the fan, the FAI give various variations on it (15k / 20k capacities) and refuse to clarify if there are any other restrictions in this 3rd party agreement that will affect a club in the future.

Presumably a club will only find out about these restrictions through trial and error of applying for approval (as long as the proposed dates don't clash with league fixtures of course). All eventuallities are covered under the PA.

The 2011 Participation Agreement should be very easy to produce - a one liner should suffice: "The FAI will decide whatever it likes when it likes and you will accept it without complaint or comment"

and in another world you might even feel sorry for poor JD....he could never have anticipated being rumbled like this.

Clubs back Limerick..
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/s...ai-120092.html

Clubs pulling together?

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AIRTRICITY League of Ireland clubs have rallied behind Limerick in their battle with the FAI over the proposed friendly game against Barcelona at Thomond Park on July 31.

At a scheduled meeting in Dublin ahead of last night’s FAI Cup draw, the 19 clubs in attendance expressed support for Limerick while Jackman Park officials, again backed by the other clubs, made a demand to see the third-party commercial agreement which the FAI has said prevents it from sanctioning the Barcelona game. According to sources at the meeting, it appeared that none of the clubs had previously been aware of the existence of such an agreement. It remains to be seen if the current row impacts on how the clubs will vote, in 10 days’ time, on whether to extend the league’s merger with the FAI beyond 2011.
[...]

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http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/s...ai-120092.html

While neither the FAI nor Limerick have been forthcoming with enough information for me to make a valid judgement, I feel I have some sympathy for the FAI's argument.

I think it is a perfectly reasonable argument that if a high-profile friendly is to come to Ireland, that the best outcome for the league as a whole is for it to take place in a large venue owned by the footballing authorities in the country. A friendly at Thomond Park would, let's face it, result in a large proportion of the profits being handed over to Munster Rugby - we've all seen how the GAA chanced their arm with soccer and rugby fixtures over the past few years, and Kentaro basically told them where to shove their stadium when it came to negotiations over the Brazil friendly. I would expect Munster Rugby to drive a similarly hard bargain as the only viable stadium in Limerick.

That's not to say I'd dismiss Limerick's argument. I think clubs should be allowed organise friendlies on their own and I'm not entirely sure how the FAI can exercise such stringent controls over the clubs. But from the point of view of an Irish football fan, I don't really see how Barcelona playing Limerick at Thomond would be of any great benefit to the domestic game and would much rather to see Barca stage a fixture in the Aviva where twice as many fans could get to see the best team in the world.

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"Getting money into the coffers of the association is more important than getting the money into the coffers at the clubs at the moment," said Fenlon. "So be it. There's nothing we can do about that. We all know what its about. Write the story. It's not about anything to do with football or fixtures. It's about time people stood up and wrote the story in relation to that."

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Never though I'd say it but fair play Pat.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

That's not to say I'd dismiss Limerick's argument. I think clubs should be allowed organise friendlies on their own and I'm not entirely sure how the FAI can exercise such stringent controls over the clubs. But from the point of view of an Irish football fan, I don't really see how Barcelona playing Limerick at Thomond would be of any great benefit to the domestic game and would much rather to see Barca stage a fixture in the Aviva where twice as many fans could get to see the best team in the world.

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When you consider that very few of the "twice as many fans" will ever visit a LOI ground either before or after watching the Barca game, and any money made by the FAI will go straight towards paying for the Aviva, how do you see a friendly in the Aviva being of 'great benefit to the domestic game'?

Did I say it would be?

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Did I say it would be?

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You seem to be concerned about what's best for the league in your post.

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that the best outcome for the league as a whole is for it to take place in a large venue owned by the footballing authorities in the country.
........
I don't really see how Barcelona playing Limerick at Thomond would be of any great benefit to the domestic game and would much rather to see Barca stage a fixture in the Aviva where twice as many fans could get to see the best team in the world.

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so the match should be moved from Thomond, where it wouldn't be of any benefit to Irish doemstic football, to the Aviva, where it wouldn't be of any benefit to domestic football either?

I would be very interested at seeing a copy of this so called third party agreement. After all the FAI do not seem aware of its contents (15,000 or 20,000 capacity being one example). I would have strong doubts as to its existence, especially in its context to League of Ireland clubs. The National side I can understand, but until it can be displayed , or at least its existence confirmed by whoever the third party is, I don't believe it.

It is well known in rugby circles at Lansdowne Road that the FAI, and Mr Delaney in particular are thought of as a joke, and rather inept. Their inability to sell their quota of debentures for the new stadium has left them with a lot of egg on their faces. I am sure that this significantly contributes to their need to host anything at all financially worthwhile in the Aviva.

As the FAI are answerable to the Government in relation to grant funding etc, it now is time to up this protest a notch and involve the government. What they are doing is sickening and I know several regular International matchgoers who will not attend any more Ireland games while the Delaney Dictatorship is in place.

And was the signed agreement by the FAI with the third party before or after the clubs signed the PA?

So the FAI enter into an agreement with a third party to negotiate contracts on their behalf with foreign clubs,hardly shock horror stuff its common place around the world.A league of Ireland club wishing to host such a friendly should first contact the FAI ,yet again no shock horror its the pro way to do it and is common place around the world.Limrick dont have a leg to stand on here chaps and lets face it nobody gave a fiddlers about Limrick until it became an excuse to have a pop at the FAI.As for the ever increasing concerned parties in Limrick ,where the hell were you before this came to light?

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Originally Posted by joeSoap

What they are doing is sickening and I know several regular International matchgoers who will not attend any more Ireland games while the Delaney Dictatorship is in place.

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Only now, after this?

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Originally Posted by RoversHead

So the FAI enter into an agreement with a third party to negotiate contracts on their behalf with foreign clubs,hardly shock horror stuff its common place around the world.

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I'd be surprised if there's another league in the world that has such an agreement

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A league of Ireland club wishing to host such a friendly should first contact the FAI ,yet again no shock horror its the pro way to do it and is common place around the world.

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YOu can't seriously believe that if Barcelona want to play Boca Juniors in the Nou Camp, they get the Spanish FA to organise it?

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Limrick dont have a leg to stand on here chaps and lets face it nobody gave a fiddlers about Limrick until it became an excuse to have a pop at the FAI.As for the ever increasing concerned parties in Limrick ,where the hell were you before this came to light?

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Does it matter? if the FAI did the decent thing, its not an issue for anyone

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Originally Posted by RoversHead

So the FAI enter into an agreement with a third party to negotiate contracts on their behalf with foreign clubs,hardly shock horror stuff its common place around the world.A league of Ireland club wishing to host such a friendly should first contact the FAI ,yet again no shock horror its the pro way to do it and is common place around the world.Limrick dont have a leg to stand on here chaps and lets face it nobody gave a fiddlers about Limrick until it became an excuse to have a pop at the FAI.As for the ever increasing concerned parties in Limrick ,where the hell were you before this came to light?

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I know i'm being pedantic here but please at least learn how to spell "Limerick" before you make a comment about them.

Its great to see the clubs starting to get behind each other. Regardless of who the club is that is trying to get a friendly or who it is against, i'm pretty sure the FAI cannot just go away and sign agreements with a third party, not notify the clubs, and then turn around and tell the press all the clubs have known about these agreements the whole time when they did not.

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Originally Posted by Saint_Charlie

Clubs pulling together?

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That was late last night. :rolleyes:

I'm sure there was many a long knife produced in Abbotstown in the meantime. Have zero faith in the clubs.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

While neither the FAI nor Limerick have been forthcoming with enough information for me to make a valid judgement, I feel I have some sympathy for the FAI's argument.

I think it is a perfectly reasonable argument that if a high-profile friendly is to come to Ireland, that the best outcome for the league as a whole is for it to take place in a large venue owned by the footballing authorities in the country. A friendly at Thomond Park would, let's face it, result in a large proportion of the profits being handed over to Munster Rugby - we've all seen how the GAA chanced their arm with soccer and rugby fixtures over the past few years, and Kentaro basically told them where to shove their stadium when it came to negotiations over the Brazil friendly. I would expect Munster Rugby to drive a similarly hard bargain as the only viable stadium in Limerick.

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"I don't really know enough to comment but nevertheless am going to make sweeping assumptions about the financial arrangements" :rolleyes:

After watching Gavin on MNS I saw what I expected, just a whole load of waffle and question dodgning where he can rhyme off all the great things the FAI have done for the LOI and for Limerick while continuously avoiding the elephant in the room.
Fair play to Con for asking a few hard questions but we need a Paxmanesque style interviewer to nail that snake to the wall.
Get Vincent Browne on with the facts and he will turn their putrid bile of concotions, lies and disingenous comments into the sword they fall on.
Im delighted and indeed proud the clubs are standing up to this ineptitude and down right authoritarianism by the FAI, tbh I didnt expect it.
The b@stards should be nailed to the wall.
My biggest dissapointment with the MNS Limerick coverge last night was Rico's comments.
After that I have lost all respect for the man, its sad to see how cheaply he sold himself out.
Compare and contrast his comments with Fenlon who's stock has really raised in my book.

For anybody thats interested here is a link to the Kentaro website where it states
Republic of Ireland

The Republic of Ireland have signed a long-term agreement with Kentaro, who will also organise glamour friendly matches of Giovanni Trapattoni´s men against Brazil and Argentina in 2010.
I would make a fair guess that this is the third party that the FAI are talking about.
http://www.kentarogroup.com/index.php?id=35

It seems totally reasonable to me that the FAI sign an agreement with a sports management agency to organise friendly games in order to maximise the profits from any such games. It also seems totally reasonable the such a company would request a clause in any contract signed that any games the FAI wish to organise (and I would take it that also includes the clubs involved in the league the FAI administer) over a certain capacity would have to be organised through them otherwise whats the point in signing an agreement.

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Originally Posted by northwestexile

For anybody thats interested here is a link to the Kentaro website where it states
Republic of Ireland

The Republic of Ireland have signed a long-term agreement with Kentaro, who will also organise glamour friendly matches of Giovanni Trapattoni´s men against Brazil and Argentina in 2010.
I would make a fair guess that this is the third party that the FAI are talking about.
http://www.kentarogroup.com/index.php?id=35

It seems totally reasonable to me that the FAI sign an agreement with a sports management agency to organise friendly games in order to maximise the profits from any such games. It also seems totally reasonable the such a company would request a clause in any contract signed that any games the FAI wish to organise (and I would take it that also includes the clubs involved in the league the FAI administer) over a certain capacity would have to be organised through them otherwise whats the point in signing an agreement.

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Interesting post, but the point about Limerick is that it's LIMERICK doing the organising of a game invovling Limerick, not the FAI organising a game involving Ireland or some sort of Ireland select XI. The point in signing an ageement (for the agency) is they get exclusive control of Ireland/Ireland XI friendlies, not every bloody friendly in the country!

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Originally Posted by northwestexile

It seems totally reasonable to me that the FAI sign an agreement with a sports management agency to organise friendly games in order to maximise the profits from any such games. It also seems totally reasonable the such a company would request a clause in any contract signed that any games the FAI wish to organise (and I would take it that also includes the clubs involved in the league the FAI administer) over a certain capacity would have to be organised through them otherwise whats the point in signing an agreement.

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Does it seem 'totally reasonable' to you that the FAI, having made this deal with a third party, would not tell clubs about it, would not reveal the name of the third party, and , when a club who is unaware of the deal applies for a friendly which the deal does not allow, does it seem reasonable to you that the FAI would give only one reason in their official reply, that reason being that the friendly clashes with other LOI games on the same night, without mentioning the existence of or conditions of the deal with the third party?

And in today's Irish Times the FAI state that this 3rd party are not involved in the Man Utd game. So I'm at a loss to see how that's outside the scope of the agreement but Limerick isn't

only thing I an think of is that each club is listed individually but not LOI selections. Would seem far fetched it it weren't the FAI

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Originally Posted by Dodge

only thing I an think of is that each club is listed individually but not LOI selections.

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In which case, they can authorise a Limerick XI.

Also, you can add to the "totally unreasonable" heading the fact that the FAI have lied about their stance on numerous times already (saying clubs were informed and then saying they weren't; changing the critical attendance from 20000 to 15000 and so forth)

Yeah,

Just finished the article and agree with the points that Stu and Dodge are making. What are we running at now, maybe 4x as much coverage of this fiasco as the "good news" over the United friendly?

What are trying to say Kev, that when the game gets the go ahead, the FAI and Limerick will prclaim themselves marketing geniuses?

Back to the small-mindedness and self serving pettiness.

Am I right in thinking that if Limerick take legal action against the fai, then fifa would suspend the fai? As, Chile, I think it was (one of the south americans), were threatened with being thrown out of the world cup if on of their clubs proceeded with an action.

That would some f u to delaney and co :D

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

A friendly at Thomond Park would, let's face it, result in a large proportion of the profits being handed over to Munster Rugby

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Munster rugby dont own or run Thomond Park

The English FA weren't punished for all the English football cases brought to court (West Ham, Tevez etc etc)

I think there's FIFA sanctions if the government interfere with the football body though

Like FIFA'd suspend England anyway.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

I think it is a perfectly reasonable argument that if a high-profile friendly is to come to Ireland, that the best outcome for the league as a whole is for it to take place in a large venue owned by the footballing authorities in the country.

But from the point of view of an Irish football fan, I don't really see how Barcelona playing Limerick at Thomond would be of any great benefit to the domestic game and would much rather to see Barca stage a fixture in the Aviva where twice as many fans could get to see the best team in the world.

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The FAI / Aviva were never going to host Barcelona on July 31st 2010, so your point is irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

only thing I an think of is that each club is listed individually but not LOI selections. Would seem far fetched it it weren't the FAI

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Or the agreement is something to do with using Lansdowne. If there is an agreement....

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Originally Posted by A N Mouse

Am I right in thinking that if Limerick take legal action against the fai, then fifa would suspend the fai? As, Chile, I think it was (one of the south americans), were threatened with being thrown out of the world cup if on of their clubs proceeded with an action.

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They haven't taken action against us before over failings at 'our'* clibs like Portsmouth, Southampton and Luton, so why would they now?
*well, according to Trapattoni, they are our clubs as he won't consider LOI players

This is about clubs sueing their national association though, not over clubs being run badly.

Can't find anything on why a national association can be suspended. El Salvador got suspended last week, Chile and Iraq got threatened in the last few months and various other countries (Peru, Greece, Kenya) have been suspended too.