Judging by the comments on Gazzetta there is some humourous respect for Trap in Italy.
"If Trap it had had the same fortune with Italy, for sure we would have won in 2002."
"With Trap it is always the same… advantage and catenaccio"
"mythical trap"
Judging by the comments on Gazzetta there is some humourous respect for Trap in Italy.
"If Trap it had had the same fortune with Italy, for sure we would have won in 2002."
"With Trap it is always the same… advantage and catenaccio"
"mythical trap"
Still recovering from a marathon session around Dublin - will try and read through all the posts this evening.
I'm happy enough with the result and having got the chance to watch the second half on tv yesterday we played pretty well and kept the pressure up for the whole of the second half. First half was a shambles - getting caught cold again within minutes of kicking off needs to be eradicated.
McGeady played well in the second half but was dreadful in the first half. Good recovery but I wish the Trap would play him on the right and leave Duffer on the left. Duff is not as effective on the right and it's a waste of his talents. Doyle worked hard and Keane took his goals so no complaints for the front two.
MOM was the ref. We haven't had a bit of luck for ages and were due something. Please let this continue all the way to Africa!
Contrary to belief, McGeady was not dreadfull in the first half.
3 out of 9 crosses were poorly dispatched, apart from that he was well involved, accurate with his passes and never let up in the first half with his determination to make an impact.
The team were poor enough in the first half.
I'd agree with that. And as for games of the tournament, the match v USA was pretty mental aswell! They were lucky to get through that one, despite being a man up for most of the 2nd half? But i prefer it that way in a World Cup; its boring when one team coasts through all the way. Better that the eventual winners have a few fights along the way.Quote:
Originally Posted by eirebhoy
Basically, i thought that althought they didnt stand head and shoulders about the rest, they deserved to win it.
Sorry, bit off-topic but just thought i'd add that..
Thanks for that Doc. I can't get any of that other torrent stuff to work (on work computer) so at least now i've seen the "penalty" incident!Quote:
Originally Posted by Docboy
Would love to see a full version of Robbie's celebration though!
I didn't rate his first half efforts. I'll have to watch the first half again on dvd but would be very surprised if it changed my viewpoint.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Whatever opinions you have about his efforts in the first half there is no way he deserves to be singled out, above the 9 other players, to be labelled dreadful.
and certainly not labelled as bad as Kelly who actually lost his nerve and wanted to be somewhere else for much of the first half.
He was only singled out by me because of how well he played in the second half. A complete transformation and it reflects well on him that he was confident enough to take on his man after a bad first half. Everybody improved in the second half but McGeady's contribution was the standout second half performance.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
The thing with McGeady is his errors are more glaringly obvious than other players. You could here groans from a few over hit crosses or if he got dispossessed while tryinng to beat his man.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I thought McGeady had a good first half despite a few mistakes. He always tried his utmost to be positive and looked dangerous. Him and Duff will be very important in this campaign.
I enojoyed McGeady's performance above all else on Wednesday. He showed glimpses of it against Cyprus but really stepped it up the other night, and to his credit he did it at a stage where Ireland were looking for someone to stand up and be counted in a creative sense. I would disagree that he should be played on the right with Duff on the left cos he undoubtedly does his best work on the left cutting in. I know it's restricting Duff a bit but I think McGeady is the player we need to facilitate at this stage as he could be something huge for us. His ability to beat players is something I haven't seen in a long time in a green shirt. I would be tempted to play him on the right in Bari if Dossena is left back and tell him to run at him all night long!!
As for the comments about Italy's WC winning team I'd also like to add that they gave me huge enjoyment when watching that tournament. They have a fantastic resiliance about them which was evident again in the Euros but they always seem to be up against it with no real top class forward, much like Portugal.
I didn't notice through my blinkers that McGeady got dispossessed even once in the 1st half.Quote:
Originally Posted by Torn-Ado
Does someone want to actually list all the dreadful things McGeady did in the first half apart from the 3 poor crosses.
I don't count the one that was a good attempt to catch the goalie off his line as being a poor effort.
McGeady was above average in first half, his crossing though was shocking.
I suppose if Stephen Kelly played for Celtic then he would not have been at fault for the goal.
I still do not know what all the fuss is about McGeady, average player. Another Mark Kennedy.
Obviously I hope that he proves me wrong.
haha :DQuote:
Originally Posted by stojkovic
Christ Almighty!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by stojkovic
Never a Harps fan when you need one.Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_peepee
[QUOTE=stojkovic;1104518] Another Mark Kennedy.
QUOTE]
wow, thats below the belt there man! :D
I was looking through previous results, as an after thought, and thats the first time we've won a (competitive) game after conceding first since 2001 against Andorra.
Hopefully the end result is the same.
Well Starsky did have the odd decent game aswell.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Legendwow, thats below the belt there man! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by stojkovic
And before that Luxembourg in 1987 !Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
Jesus that's some stat.
You know Liverpool under Houllier never came from behind at half-time to win the match? He was there 6 seasons. Benitez's team came from behind at h/t to win the match 3 times in his first 3 months. They've done it plenty of times since.
I heard before that before Benitez, they hadn't come from behind at half time to win since Notts County in 1991, so it's more than just Houllier!!
I'm not sure if I'm misisng the point here but I only put up the spoof Italian comments to show how ludicrous the reaction to this game has been in Ireland. By all objective assessments we made mistakes and relied on a lucky decision but we got the 3 points and on watching the game again the operformance was far better than it felt at the time. There's no place for the utter defeatist bullsh1t from the likes of Indo when you've won a game you could have lost. Even Brian Kerr gave guarded credit -noting that the full backs started getting forward (they don't under Trap's Plan A) and that it'll take a tougher test in midfield before we can comment properly on Andrews. Compare that to David Kelly's garbage "midfield was obliterated". The only thing that was obliterated this week was any inclination I have to buy the Indo for pre & post match reporting.Quote:
Originally Posted by BarelyLegal
The Indo is rubbish not just for football. It should be boycotted by everybody as its reporting of the economy is terrible also. The Sunday Indo and The Irish Indo belong in the bin. Examiner is good for football coverage and the Times is fair when reporting on the Irish Senior International Football matches.
00:40: McGeady stood off the right back who picked up the short free kick and whose cross was headed across the box, resulting in the Georgia goal.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
02:00: stood back waiting and never competed for a Kilbane pass allowing the Georgian full back to clear comfortably
05:10: miscontrolled a simple pass from Kilbane, ball went out for a Georgia throw.
05:40: ran onto a ball on the left that came off a defender in yards of space and hit a woeful cross far too near to the goalkeeper at least 10 yards away from Doyle the nearest Irish forward
07:55: took a pass out on the left from Duff and crossed (shot! :))the ball way ahead of any of the forwards and over the nearside post/bar
08:45: took a back heeled pass from Keane, beat a player and hit a low short pass/cross into the nearside of the box which might have been intended for Keane but which was behind him.
09:30: clumsily ran across Iashvilli, needlessly gave away a foul in the centre circle which allowed the Georgians to break free down the left side, thankfully their attempt to cross was worse than McGeady’s first efforts.
11:30: half heartedly went for a Keane layoff then dived in and gave away a free on the touchline
12:30: took another lay off from Keane down the left after Doyle won the ball in the air and hit a pass straight to a Georgian defender with Keane and Doyle at least 20 yards away
15:40: took a pass out on the left from Doyle, tried outside the full back, came back inside and hit another woeful cross that did clear the first defender in the box.
17:05: took a pass from Duff, this time on the right, and once again, hit a weak cross that did not beat the first defender
23:35: picked up another ball down the right, ran the full back and crossed but yet again the ball never beat the first defender who cleared for a corner
31:55: picked up a pass from Andrews in his own half on the right, then played a badly placed and paced pass to Whelan who was dispossessed in the centre circle
38:20: won a good corner after chasing down a long through ball from O’Shea but then wasted it taking a short corner to Duff from which the Georgians won a throw in.
39:05: took another lay off from Doyle down the right hand side tried to go outside the full back but once again a low weak cross did not clear the first defender
40:25: McGeady’s best moment when he picked up the ball well inside his own half, ran at the defence and shot from about 25 yds forcing a save from the keeper
44:20: poor attempt to pick up a short pass from Doyle, looked like he pulled out from challenging the defender
01:04 of added time: McGeady’s first decent cross from a corner on the left.
Managed to get the first half compressed from over 2GB to a little under 600MB, I'll upload it to megaupload or something in work on monday.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Forgot to mention, it also includes the pre-match discussion from RTE.
I'm happy with Ireland's results so far, and with Wednesday night. International football really is a crazy, crazy business at times, and we'll take any breaks we can get.
There's no doubt that we're better than Georgia, Montenegro, Bulgaria and Cyprus on paper - but it's another thing getting results. It's not like ten years ago when we could hammer Malta 5-0 and beat Cyprus 4-0 home and away. The small teams have improved.
More teams are packing the midfield and grinding out results. In the last campaign, Germany were the only team we played against who didn't try to outnumber us in midfield; which could explain why Andy Reid was excellent against them, while struggling against Cyprus four days later.
There have been so many times when results against small nations have cost us; Liechtenstein '95, Iceland '96, Lithuania '97, Macedonia '97 and '99... The last two successful qualifying campaigns - 1994 and 2002 - were built on a 100% record against the lesser teams. And not all of those victories were achieved easily - in fact, they included some of the worst performances in those particular campaigns (Albania away in '93, Andorra home, 2001). Wednesday's result and performance isn't without precedent in the context of a successful Irish team.
Bulgaria and Italy next, and I've a feeling that we'll see the best of this Irish team now. We're a big-match team, always have been, and it's good that Trap has been able to use the last four games to create a settled, competitive side. It all starts here! :)
I did ask for dreadful play examples apart from the 3 poor crosses,
dreadful in football terms means extremely poor.
It does píss me off no end when an Irish fan goes out of his to find fault with one of our players and label his overall first half as dreadful, especially when using pieces of play where he did alright, he did good or he didn't do that bad.
Not dreadfullQuote:
Originally Posted by Superhoops
McGeady was covering the Georgian nr 14 on the right.
Quite farcical to allude to McGeady at all in that horror of horrors.
So so,Quote:
02:00: stood back waiting and never competed for a Kilbane pass allowing the Georgian full back to clear comfortably
He did not compete, but to call that a "Kilbane pass" is a dreadfull description of a hail mary miscontrolled ball.
Kilbanes "pass" was the dreadful thing in that move.
He did.Quote:
05:10: miscontrolled a simple pass from Kilbane, ball went out for a Georgia throw.
First cross, dreadfullQuote:
05:40: ran onto a ball on the left that came off a defender in yards of space and hit a woeful cross far too near to the goalkeeper at least 10 yards away from Doyle the nearest Irish forward
Not dreadfulQuote:
07:55: took a pass out on the left from Duff and crossed (shot! :))the ball way ahead of any of the forwards and over the nearside post/bar
3 forwards V 5 defenders, none of the forwards in any good position.
Very good attempt at a shot, Ireland's best effort of the early period, which isn't saying a lot.
Not dreadfulQuote:
08:45: took a back heeled pass from Keane, beat a player and hit a low short pass/cross into the nearside of the box which might have been intended for Keane but which was behind him.
The ball arrived right onto Robbie's right foot. Robbie chose to step over it.
Not great by McGeady, but not bad.
Clumsy, nothing more.Quote:
09:30: clumsily ran across Iashvilli, needlessly gave away a foul in the centre circle which allowed the Georgians to break free down the left side, thankfully their attempt to cross was worse than McGeady’s first efforts.
Not dreadful play.Quote:
11:30: half heartedly went for a Keane layoff then dived in and gave away a free on the touchline
Half heartedly is BS description, McGeady gave it 100%.
Beautiful control by McGeady to trap a poor lay off by Keane.Quote:
12:30: took another lay off from Keane down the left after Doyle won the ball in the air and hit a pass straight to a Georgian defender with Keane and Doyle at least 20 yards away
Any other player would have not have pulled that off.
Awful pass into empty space.
Only pass miscontrolled? (apart from the crosses)
Second poor crossQuote:
15:40: took a pass out on the left from Doyle, tried outside the full back, came back inside and hit another woeful cross that did clear the first defender in the box.
3rd poor crossQuote:
17:05: took a pass from Duff, this time on the right, and once again, hit a weak cross that did not beat the first defender
Because he is not George Best, not beating a defender is bad play :rolleyes:Quote:
23:35: picked up another ball down the right, ran the full back and crossed but yet again the ball never beat the first defender who cleared for a corner
You might have noticed the covering defenders had something to do with his choices, both on the outside and the inside, McGeady won a corner FFS. McGeady did very good here.
So so,Quote:
31:55: picked up a pass from Andrews in his own half on the right, then played a badly placed and paced pass to Whelan who was dispossessed in the centre circle
it was a solid pass.
Whelan should have played it to Kilbane just out of picture. That was the obvious pass for a CM to make, not let the ball run on past him.
That play just exemplified some of the shortcomings of CM.
Hard to tell, did Duff pass it back to him in a difficult position?Quote:
38:20: won a good corner after chasing down a long through ball from O’Shea but then wasted it taking a short corner to Duff from which the Georgians won a throw in.
4th poor cross, one more than I thought.Quote:
39:05: took another lay off from Doyle down the right hand side tried to go outside the full back but once again a low weak cross did not clear the first defender
Quote:
40:25: McGeady’s best moment when he picked up the ball well inside his own half, ran at the defence and shot from about 25 yds forcing a save from the keeper
Ridiculous, if that was McGeady making the pass you´d say awful pass to Doyle who was in a poor position to receive a pass.Quote:
44:20: poor attempt to pick up a short pass from Doyle, looked like he pulled out from challenging the defender
I didn't think it was a bad performance overall .... I'd say Lippi was certainly given some food for thought. We had allot of posession. My biggest worries are the central midfield, the fact we didn't test the keeper much despite the posession and how majorly thin the squad is beyond the first team.
Great response geysir, some of the criticism of McGeady is way OTT, the wee man needed to put a big shift in and to be fair to him he did just that, easily the most talented player on the pitch Wednesday night.
I can't believe you have taken the time to do this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Superhoops
It's like counting the shots in Ali against Frasier and saying Frasier actually won the fight.
The fact is that in the second half McGeady turned the game for us. You could see the Georgians standing off him and it seriously affected their confidence and playing style - they got a real shock to their system - in both respects.
You have totally missed the bigger picture. McGeady was excellent.
I wonder if Andy Reid had done exactly what McGeady had done all night, pass for pass, run for run, what would people have said?
I personally would have started Duff and Andy Reid wide on Wednesday. As Souness says, 2 out and out wingers is a risky strategy, but a winger and a midfielder playing wide ( a la Pires for example) is a different proposition. However, I'm very happy to say that McGeady's creativity and moral courage was probably the biggest factor in turning this game around, Kevin Doyle's influence not far behind.
... agree with that too Stutt.
Like others, I thought McGeady was poor in the first half, and I'm tired of people attributing this opinion to everybody apparently having a predetermined dislike of McGeady, which means we judge him more harshly than other players. The idea that we might simply have seen his performance as less accomplished than other people saw it is seemingly impossible (2 people watched the same game but formed different opinions on how a player performed - never!!).
I got around to watching the first half again and haven't changed my opinion that McGeady was poor in that half. I definitely heard plenty of groans though at one point when he had the ball, didn't run forward and held onto it for a few seconds while looking around.
A lot of fans just think McGeady is brainless (I've heard too many people tell me that now) and feel they know better. If he's standing around looking for an option I believe people think he hasn't a clue what to do. It puts pressure on him to make a stupid pass.
Here's the incident in question:
http://www.zshare.net/video/556535631aaebee0/
The actual pass was exactly the pass Whelan wanted despite Superhoops putting it down as a mistake.
Maybe the groans were because McGeady hadn't got much passing options? I'd certainly call Whelan a passing option in that incident and he was certainly looking for the pass.
Call me paranoid but I was at the match with a guy that's anti-Celtic and he actually sympathised with me in the en after hearing the groans towards for an hour.
geysir asked the question!Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddy Garcia
Besides, I always record games and watch them again.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
In the second half, yes McGeady was excellent, the best player on the pitch. However, in the first half he was poor. I think most people would expect to see a wide player take the ball wide and supply crosses into the box for the front men. In the first half, the only decent cross McGeady got in was from a corner in stoppage time, all his other efforts never beat the first defender.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddy Garcia
The point I (and others) have been making is that McGeady had a great second half but not a great match as several on here seem to think, whereas Kevin Doyle worked hard and played well in both halves and IMO was MOTM.
For the record, I have no dislike of McGeady. I want to see him or anyone else who puts on a green shirt playing well. I don't believe that lining up with 2 out and out wide players works for us, especially when the central midfield is not that strong and when our 2 main strikers prefer to play off balls player through the defence rather than from wide.
Sorry to keep going on about it but..........McGeady is not really a winger. He is a number 10. During the match it was obvious to see that his best moments came from having the ball more centrally!
Trap said he is going play him here at some point. That time is coming!
Pre match discussion and the first half of the game here: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=8SFTEMXL
For some reason my DVR didn't record the second half of the game :(