eircom League in Europe - 2008

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Originally Posted by Steve Bruce

But this draw highlights the flaws of co-efficient ratings. Linfield and Cliftonville have been handed 2 of the hardest draws possible, we are likely to get no points at all.hopefully Linfield can force a draw at home. But it is unlikely.

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A draw is a draw - you just get on with it in terms of who you're paired with.

City got the hardest draw in the northern UEFA Cup region in 2006 (IFK Gothenborg). The rest, as they say, is history. So it does happen - and to other clubs/leagues as well.

Re co-efficient ratings - the better you do, the easier the draw, so the better you'll do again. Not letting players go off on holiday during the weeks when you know yiou'll have Euro games would be a good starting point for IL teams if they want to stop getting such sh!tty draws....:o

Hard draw for IL sides but thats just bad luck this year. Bring unseeded does not help either.

The LOI ranking has been improving in recent years not due to luck but because we have beaten seeded teams from Sweden, Croatia, Cyprus & Finland

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Originally Posted by pete

Hard draw for IL sides but thats just bad luck this year. Bring unseeded does not help either.

The LOI ranking has been improving in recent years not due to luck but because we have beaten seeded teams from Sweden, Croatia, Cyprus & Finland

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What Croatian side have you beaten?

By the way I am not making excuses as to why the LOI are ahead of us in the co-efficients, I am making a point at how flawed they are. This is the 3rd year in a row we have got the top 1-3 seeds.

It was Hajduk Split, Shels beat them.

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Originally Posted by TheBoss

It was Hajduk Split, Shels beat them.

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Well I think we can all safely say, that Shels team where by far the best side man for man this island has seen in a couple of decades. I'm sure if the rest of us pumped in the money they did for their players we would have the squads/teams capable of getting to the 3rd round as well.

Yes, that was a huge scalp for Shels.

We've had some great results as well; we've knocked out Djurgardens from Sweden, Apollon from Cyprus, Valur from Iceland, Malmo from Sweden, Nijmegen from Holland.

What Northern teams can boast that record in recent times?

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Originally Posted by Steve Bruce

By the way I am not making excuses as to why the LOI are ahead of us in the co-efficients, I am making a point at how flawed they are. This is the 3rd year in a row we have got the top 1-3 seeds.

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That's just called luck!

Cork and Pat's were both unseeded in the UEFA Cup draw as well. It was luck that they got 2 of the easier teams in the draw and that the Irish League teams got 2 of the top ranked teams.

Last year St Pat's got pretty much the toughest draw they could have and deserved a bit of luck this year.

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Originally Posted by anti dub

Yes, that was a huge scalp for Shels.

We've had some great results as well; we've knocked out Djurgardens from Sweden, Apollon from Cyprus, Valur from Iceland, Malmo from Sweden, Nijmegen from Holland.

What Northern teams can boast that record in recent times?

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Where did you see me putting yous down, that post comes across as very defensive.

The last team Linfield put out was Ventspills 3 years ago. Glentoran progressed to the 2nd round the year before. Linfield put in a good performance last year against Elsborg who went onto the 3rd round of CL and if I'm not mistaken the group stages of the UEFA cup.

The year before be played Gorica and put in a good 2nd leg performance 2-2.

We are part-time, miles away from match fitness. We don't have much of a chance, but our draws in recent years have been hurrendously bad for us.

Sorry, I didn't mean to seem argumentative. I'd like to see the Irish League do well in Europe.

Steve, I can see your point about it being very difficult for unseeded teams when they draw a top seed, but I'm not sure I get your point about the draw being flawed because of this.
Do you have a fairer solution or are you just frustrated at a difficult draw?

Last year's Uefa draw wasn't that bad - one Swedish and one Lithuanian team, when the LOI teams got one Danish and one San Marino (the advantage of being seeded). The previous year it was a Norwegian and Lithuanian team when the LOI teams got one Swedish and one Finnish team.

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Originally Posted by bigmac

Steve, I can see your point about it being very difficult for unseeded teams when they draw a top seed, but I'm not sure I get your point about the draw being flawed because of this.
Do you have a fairer solution or are you just frustrated at a difficult draw?

Last year's Uefa draw wasn't that bad - one Swedish and one Lithuanian team, when the LOI teams got one Danish and one San Marino (the advantage of being seeded). The previous year it was a Norwegian and Lithuanian team when the LOI teams got one Swedish and one Finnish team.

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The draw itself isn't flawed, but I think co-efficients are flawed. In the last 3 draws Linfield has been given the hardest or next to hardest possible draws. We get a poor co-efficent because of this. Yet a country of lesser standard could get an easier draw and have a co-efficent far superior.

Maybe I am just frustrated at getting the hardest possible draws year in and year out. Next year should be a bit different with this new format.

Oh and my solution wouldn't be accepted by UEFA. My solution would be to stick everyone in a hat (including the Man Utds, Real Madrids etc) and have a free draw. Then everyone will be on a level playing field and if Linfield get Real Madrid at least we would get a financial windfall out of it.

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Originally Posted by Steve Bruce

Oh and my solution wouldn't be accepted by UEFA. My solution would be to stick everyone in a hat (including the Man Utds, Real Madrids etc) and have a free draw. Then everyone will be on a level playing field and if Linfield get Real Madrid at least we would get a financial windfall out of it.

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Totally agree that's the way it should be done. As you say though, the suits won't have it. They don't care about grassroots football; they care about money.

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Originally Posted by Steve Bruce

My solution would be to stick everyone in a hat (including the Man Utds, Real Madrids etc) and have a free draw.

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Completely agree.
With the co-efficients, it's much more difficult for the lowest ranked leagues to get away from the bottom. Obviously if a higher ranked league slips back a little (maybe from entry to 2nd qualifying round to 1st QR) they then have an easier draw to make back their coefficients, but as you say, to get away from the unseeded section, you have to get a good draw and perform above average. For me, the big problem for the IL is the lack of strength in depth. This means that not only does one team have to get a good draw, that team has to be strong enough to capitalise on it for the good of the others.

For anyone who's interested PP have odds on who will qualify from each of the ties.

http://www.paddypower.com/bet?action...ev_class_id=53

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Originally Posted by Steve Bruce

Well I think we can all safely say, that Shels team where by far the best side man for man this island has seen in a couple of decades. I'm sure if the rest of us pumped in the money they did for their players we would have the squads/teams capable of getting to the 3rd round as well.

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Don't forrget that that "great" Shels team won only one game in that run. I@m now knocking the run (far from it given our euro record) but although they got through 2 rounds (and played 8 ties in total) they have 1 win to show for it.

Obviously I'd be delighted with same.

From our point of view its as good as could be hoped for. Weakest team on the pitch, decent tourist spot for the fans.

Oha nd Steve Bruce, last year Pats were drawn against the highest seeds.

The system at the moment is fair.
Everyone wants easy teams from San Marino or the Man Utd's of this world.

Odds are in a draw with all the teams we come out the next 20 or 30 years and get very little in the way of easy or bumper draws. You'd go out every year to like of Kiev or Steaua or others that are better but not big draws.

The way it works now is perfect in my opinion. Rounds with teams that have a chance against each other and the better you are the further you go. Nobody wants to get beaten 8-0 each year by teams from Spain england or Italy either, despite the money you'd get. In fact the move next year adding in another qualifying round is even better. The more qualifying rounds the better in my opinion, gives everyone something to aim for.

Talk to any Shels fan. Making the 3rd QR that year was as great and as special to us as winning it was for the Liverpool fans.

As for the North and their bad draws...
boooooooooooooo hooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

You have 5 years to get decent results to claw your way out of the mess. If you can't do that or won't do that then your tough.

Over 5 years if your league is better than those of Lativa or Iceland or Finland etc you'd come out on top eventually.

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Originally Posted by Steve Bruce

What Croatian side have you beaten?

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Pats beat Rijeka in inter toto too (even if it dodn't count regards co-eff)

Regarding next year.
Looks like we will go back to unseeded in the Champions League QR1 from what I can tell (we're currently 18th from 34 teams in QR1 for example) but very very close to being seeded! There is actually a QR0 for the CL from next season.

If the Irish League are not careful they could be playing in that :)
They are 48th from 52 states and the bottom 6 play in QR0! so bad results this year and your football season starts even earlier next year.

UEFA Cup we'll get our Cup Winners into QR2 and they are very close to being seeded in that QR2.
Our two other entrants will go into QR1 and should be seeded. In fact a good year now and we will have 2 teams starting in QR2 and being seeded from next year.

Cannot see Drogheda beat that Estonian side. Last time they played Bohs they tore them apart and are consistently top of their league. They have a very good record in Europe too whilst Drogs are struggling big time.

Haka from Finland will be too strong for Cork too I think.

Pats should progress I think.

Being drawn at home in the 1st leg is the kiss of death. You need to be far superior to progress if you are drawn at home in the first leg so I think Cork and Drogs will suffer against better teams.

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Originally Posted by McCusker26

Cannot see Drogheda beat that Estonian side. Last time they played Bohs they tore them apart and are consistently top of their league

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Not in tallinn they didn't and that was the first leg too