Worst Irish 11 since 1980

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

hilarious. he plays for the best team in the premier lge for a manager who shows no mercy when getting rid of players that are not up to it. hes about to be part of a premier lge winning team with a good shout at winning the champions lge yet some on here think hes not good enough for our middle of the road international team!

you can say what you like but its more about who he plays for than how he plays that attracts the critisism here.... i'll never be convinced otherwise. no world beater but i gaurantee that he'll be a regular feature in our team under trapp. two world class managers cant both be wrong about him

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By your logic that would mean the likes of Dirk Kuyt and Fabio Aurelio - who are both extremely poor - are world class players just because they play in one of the best teams in Europe.

Oh ya if he plays for United he must be top class - see Silvestre, David May, Jordi Cruyff, Kleberson, Djemba Djemba, etc. The only reason he's still at United is because Ferguson thinks he can slot in now and again into a few positions and not do too much damage because there's so many good players around him.

Also, he's happy to get a game now and again rather than be a regular at a lower club - he knows he'll never be good enough to be a regular starter at United - why doesn't he have any ambition to push himself at another club?

And by the way I'm a United fan and I despise him as a player

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Originally Posted by lionelhutz

By your logic that would mean the likes of Dirk Kuyt and Fabio Aurelio - who are both extremely poor - are world class players just because they play in one of the best teams in Europe.

Oh ya if he plays for United he must be top class - see Silvestre, David May, Jordi Cruyff, Kleberson, Djemba Djemba, etc. The only reason he's still at United is because Ferguson thinks he can slot in now and again into a few positions and not do too much damage because there's so many good players around him.

Also, he's happy to get a game now and again rather than be a regular at a lower club - he knows he'll never be good enough to be a regular starter at United - why doesn't he have any ambition to push himself at another club?

And by the way I'm a United fan and I despise him as a player

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Conversely these players only looked poor due to the fact they were playing at a club with such high standards

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Originally Posted by gustavo

Conversely these players only looked poor due to the fact they were playing at a club with such high standards

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Djemba Djemba looked poor for Burnley ffs.

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Originally Posted by youngirish

Djemba Djemba

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So bad they named him twice...............................

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Originally Posted by youngirish

He's also generally poor when playing for United and even poorer when playing for Ireland which is the team I'm concerned about and not some English Premiership team that means nothing to me..... Even the best teams in the world can get away with one or two dodgy players (particularly non starters like O'Shea)..

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hes not generally poor for utd. if he was he wouldnt be playing at all

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Originally Posted by youngirish

Obviously you are a United supporter but to say JOS is a decent player that deserves his place in an Ireland team implies to me that you haven't watched a single Ireland game in the last 6 years. .

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only an Irish supporter. and yes he does deserve his place. if the likes of irwin, mcgrath, mccarthy et al were still around he wouldnt but the arent so he does

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Originally Posted by youngirish

Trapatonni may well pick him for Ireland but that is now due to the current circumstances (with the retirement of A O'Brien, Carr and Finnan and the loss of form of McShane) out of necessity rather than for any implied ability. Staunton and Kerr didn't have to make the same mistakes..

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far better player than mcshane or carr in anycase. obrien has had his moments. he will be an important fixture in our team under trapp

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Originally Posted by youngirish

He has been an absolutely shocking player for Ireland.

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complete over the top statement. if he was anyway near shocking he wouldnt be in the team.

sure theres always one player in our team that its trendy to abuse. when oshea is gone the boo boys will just move onto someone else

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

hes not generally poor for utd. if he was he wouldnt be playing at all



only an Irish supporter. and yes he does deserve his place. if the likes of irwin, mcgrath, mccarthy et al were still around he wouldnt but the arent so he does



far better player than mcshane or carr in anycase. obrien has had his moments. he will be an important fixture in our team under trapp



complete over the top statement. if he was anyway near shocking he wouldnt be in the team.

sure theres always one player in our team that its trendy to abuse. when oshea is gone the boo boys will just move onto someone else

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Sorry mate but you're comnpletely wrong. O'Shea has been truly appalling for Ireland. Consistently. Even on his debut against Croatia he fcked up. He's incapable of concentrating for 90 minutes. His mind wanders, remember him gazing into the crowd just before the Czechs equalised last campaign? He was like a rabbit in headlights. Remember his abberation in the away game against the swiss under Kerr in the first few minutes for the Euro 04 qualifier? These aren't isolated incidents.

It's got nothing to do with it 'being trendy to abuse' him and everything to do with his appalling performances in a green shirt. I actually believe that there's a kernel of talent in there somewhere but his football brain is on the blink. He's taking the easy life at Man U and all, clock up enough games as a utility player to collect his medals without taxing himself. I think he knows that a la Djemba Djemba et al he's be found out if he went somewhere else as a big signing and needed to be one of the main men or senior pros for a team.

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Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er

Sorry mate but you're comnpletely wrong. O'Shea has been truly appalling for Ireland. Consistently. Even on his debut against Croatia he fcked up. He's incapable of concentrating for 90 minutes. His mind wanders, remember him gazing into the crowd just before the Czechs equalised last campaign? He was like a rabbit in headlights. Remember his abberation in the away game against the swiss under Kerr in the first few minutes for the Euro 04 qualifier? These aren't isolated incidents.

It's got nothing to do with it 'being trendy to abuse' him and everything to do with his appalling performances in a green shirt. I actually believe that there's a kernel of talent in there somewhere but his football brain is on the blink. He's taking the easy life at Man U and all, clock up enough games as a utility player to collect his medals without taxing himself. I think he knows that a la Djemba Djemba et al he's be found out if he went somewhere else as a big signing and needed to be one of the main men or senior pros for a team.

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Agree 100%. Add to the facts above that he can't distribute the ball to save his life, always looks extremely lethargic on the pitch and is a non entity in an attacking sense and a more accurate portrait of the enigma that is John O'Shea could not be found.

Whatever abuse McShane receives in his career from this date forward the fact remains that he's had 3 or 4 better performances in his short time in an Ireland shirt than any single performance O'Shea has put in in nearly 7 years of International football.

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Originally Posted by youngirish

Agree 100%. Add to the facts above that he can't distribute the ball to save his life, always looks extremely lethargic on the pitch and is a non entity in an attacking sense and a more accurate portrait of the enigma that is John O'Shea could not be found.

Whatever abuse McShane receives in his career from this date forward the fact remains that he's had 3 or 4 better performances in his short time in an Ireland shirt than any single performance O'Shea has put in in nearly 7 years of International football.

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Why does Fergie pick him ?

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Originally Posted by Shedender81

Why does Fergie pick him ?

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He doesn't "pick him". Fergie plays him when he's resting the people who can play football and like against Roma if he has to.
Fergie has no-one better because he prefers splashing the cash on attackers (Tevez,Nani,Anderson all signed in the summer).
Maybe this year he'll decide to buy some back up for Ferdinand and Vidic and then we'll see how much he really rates O'Shea.

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Originally Posted by Shedender81

I disagree about his passion... I sadly saw very little of that from him... Only a passion for the lifestyle . As the for the most famous goal.... Robbie Keane v Germany could battle for it but his goal against Holland was indeed a great moment in an otherwise very average stint in the Irish jersey.

Maybe I am being a tad hash on Trigger... but he strikes me as the start of the problems we currently half with our team....

Flash . Lack class and played for themselves not the country.... loads more like him..

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I'm pleased you said that, i thought i was the only one who felt that way.
I appreciated McAteer's contribution to Ireland and cheered his goal against Holland as loud as anyone else, but i do think the legendary status bestowed on him by many fans is way short of the mark.
I personally dont think he should be in a worst Irish XI, but i do agree with the points above.

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Originally Posted by Shedender81

Why does Fergie pick him ?

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exactly. with all the money utd have they could easily afford an altenative back-up to oshea if they felt the need. and as for ferguson not liking to buy defenders.... what about the €30m+ he spent on ferdinand? what about vidic, evra, pique etc all bought in the last 18 months? he seems less interested in buying a true ctre forward than defenders

i stand by my assertion that he is an easy target made easier by the fact that he plays for utd. he's no world beater but at the very least a decent member of our squad. watch this space for him becoming a central figure in our defence under trapp

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

exactly. with all the money utd have they could easily afford an altenative back-up to oshea if they felt the need. and as for ferguson not liking to buy defenders.... what about the €30m+ he spent on ferdinand? what about vidic, evra, pique etc all bought in the last 18 months? he seems less interested in buying a true ctre forward than defenders

i stand by my assertion that he is an easy target made easier by the fact that he plays for utd. he's no world beater but at the very least a decent member of our squad. watch this space for him becoming a central figure in our defence under trapp

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I agree with your second paragraph. For some reason I still like O'Shea even though he rarely does anything to prove that I should. Provided we can sort out the left back situation I would love to see how a central defensive partnership of Dunne and O'Shea would get on. O'Shea played well for us in Denmark (even though they were shocking that day) aside from the one lapse in concentration when he headed it back. I think if he had a good run of games at centre back for us or Utd he could still prove to be a decent centre back.

However, I disagree with the first paragraph that you wrote. I think Ferguson has very little faith left in O'Shea - as seen on Sunday when at half time he was moved from the centre to the right and later taken off - and it's just convenient for Ferguson that he has a player who doesn't seem to kick up a fuss if he isn't getting much game time (he's had **** all playing time this season) and someone who also doesn't give a **** as to where he plays (someone told me he has now played every single position possible for Utd). If O'Shea really wanted to prove how good a player he is, he should have moved on a long time ago to get regular football instead of making the requisite number of 10 minute substitutions in order to win a medal.

O'Shea remains at United because he is easy to deal with..no ambition, happy to jog on for the last 15 minutes of an already decided game with a massive grin that screams, "There's another 7,000k in my a/c for nothing"..If he was a true player and wanted to make a difference he would demand a move ala Heinze, even if it was to go to a Wigan or a Reading but to actually make a contribution and/or the difference. However he seems content to float by in a Winston Bogarde-ish manner enjoyinh life on easy street.John O'Shea, a true Joke of all trades, centre half, full back, defensive midfielder, most impressive place I seen him play was in nets.

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Originally Posted by jmurphyc

I agree with your second paragraph. For some reason I still like O'Shea even though he rarely does anything to prove that I should. Provided we can sort out the left back situation I would love to see how a central defensive partnership of Dunne and O'Shea would get on. O'Shea played well for us in Denmark (even though they were shocking that day) aside from the one lapse in concentration when he headed it back. I think if he had a good run of games at centre back for us or Utd he could still prove to be a decent centre back.

However, I disagree with the first paragraph that you wrote. I think Ferguson has very little faith left in O'Shea - as seen on Sunday when at half time he was moved from the centre to the right and later taken off - and it's just convenient for Ferguson that he has a player who doesn't seem to kick up a fuss if he isn't getting much game time (he's had **** all playing time this season) and someone who also doesn't give a **** as to where he plays (someone told me he has now played every single position possible for Utd). If O'Shea really wanted to prove how good a player he is, he should have moved on a long time ago to get regular football instead of making the requisite number of 10 minute substitutions in order to win a medal.

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There's the problem jn bold though, he's always at that when he plays 90 minutes.

Agree 100% with your second paragraph.

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Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er

There's the problem jn bold though, he's always at that when he plays 90 minutes.

Agree 100% with your second paragraph.

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Completely agree with ya mate

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Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er

There's the problem jn bold though, he's always at that when he plays 90 minutes.

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Yeah, I knew someone would pull me up on that bit. I just think his confidence is so shattered from never playing in the same position at Utd that any time he plays these days he's so nervous he can't concentrate for the whole game. I would hope that by getting a regular run of games for us at centre back that hopefully he would start to gain a little more confidence. However, I'm not blaming Ferguson for O'Shea's shortcomings as it's completely his own fault. I don't know his personal situation but IMO if he had any self respect for himself as a footballer he'd move on.

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Originally Posted by jmurphyc

I don't know his personal situation but IMO if he had any self respect for himself as a footballer he'd move on.

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move on to where? if i was at a club like utd id be very reluctant to move to a newcastle utd or similar. this is the first season he hasnt got a decent run in the team. maybe he will consider his options next season but for now is probably happy to take his chances at utd. id far rather have one of our players experiencing at least some champions lge experience than playing for a nothing mid table outfit who's sole ambition is survival

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

move on to where? if i was at a club like utd id be very reluctant to move to a newcastle utd or similar. this is the first season he hasnt got a decent run in the team. maybe he will consider his options next season but for now is probably happy to take his chances at utd. id far rather have one of our players experiencing at least some champions lge experience than playing for a nothing mid table outfit who's sole ambition is survival

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Yeah .. maybe he should move on like Duff did... or Miller... or Carr......at least he has tested himself at the highest level with various degrees of success.... can we say the same about Shay Given

David Bentley, Matthew Upson, Phil Bardsley, Kieran Richardson (West Brom & Now Sunderland) were all fringe players at Champions League level clubs..However, are only starting to reach their potential after departing and playing Premiership football week in and week out..O'Shea must step out of his comfort zone to prove if he can be any use at all (which I doubt he will).

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

move on to where? if i was at a club like utd id be very reluctant to move to a newcastle utd or similar. this is the first season he hasnt got a decent run in the team. maybe he will consider his options next season but for now is probably happy to take his chances at utd. id far rather have one of our players experiencing at least some champions lge experience than playing for a nothing mid table outfit who's sole ambition is survival

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He hasn't had a decent run in the team for a few years now. He got his second league title last season and I think it would have been time for him to move on. If Utd were to win the CL this year I'd hope that he move on having completed his collection of "medals".

I too would rather have a player experiencing CL football instead of playing at a mid-table team, but not at the expense of that player's development and that is precisely what has happened at Man Utd. Players become better by playing, not by getting a 10 minute cameo every couple of weeks, irrespective of who the team is. If he was getting a decent amount of playing time and generally playing in one position I wouldn't mind, but he isn't.