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What's this unfair system? The fact that your club gets relegated every second year? That is hardly the system, that's just football.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr A
I still don't see what you are afraid of here? With proper promotion and relegation in this new league, there is no reason why Monoghan can't get promoted to this new league and benefit from it too.Quote:
Originally Posted by passerrby
This is the fear. Some of the reports have mentioned 1 promotion place between the two regional leagues and parachute payments to the relegated club, effectively giving the remaining first division teams at a huge disadvantage.Quote:
Originally Posted by sullanefc
I'd be for an AIL as long as there's a fair promotion/relegation structure but the reports so far don't look like that's the plan.
Just a possible blueprint :
Premier League
St Pat's
Bohs
Linfield
Glentoran
Cork
Derry
Drogheda
Shamrock Rovers
Cliftonville
Dundalk
Dungannon
Galway
Portadown
Ballymena
First Division North
Finn Harps
Coleraine
Newry
Lisburn Distillery
Glenavon
Crusaders
Donegal Celtic
Armagh
Larne
Monaghan
Limavady
Bangor
First Division South
Sligo
Cobh
Waterford
Longford
Bray
UCD
Shels
Athlone
Wexford
Limerick
Kilkenny
Kildare
Promtion/Relegation: Premier = Bottom 2 relegated automatically
First Divisions = Winners promoted automatically,runner ups play eachother i.e North V South and the winner plays 12th in Premier for PL spot.
European Places: Winner and Runner Up in PL qualify for Champions League.3rd and 4th for the UEFA Cup.
Cup CompetitionsNational Cup competition entered by all senior and junior clubs,regionalised and then open draws.Cup winner qualifies for UEFA Cup.
Provincial Cup competitions established in place of current league cups.Leinster,Ulster,Munster and Connaught,junior and senior sides.
Lower Leagues:Regionalised leagues for Leinster,Ulster,Munster,Connaught and Dublin with promotional opportunites to the national league.These clubs would enter cup competitions aswell.Winners of these leagues would have the opportunity to enter the national league with conditions.
Structure
Premier League
¦
First Division North / First Division South
¦
Leinster / Ulster / Munster / Connaught / Dublin (leagues)
Any ideas,suggestions,critical comments:) appreciated.
I like it, very like the Italian Series, eg
1----------------------------------Serie A
2----------------------------------Serie B
3--------------------Serie C1A (North), Serie C1B (South)
4---------Serie C2A (North), Serie C2A (Central/Rome), Serie C2C (South)
5------Serie D (Many regional amateurs, feeding into C2 by election if needed)
A similar AIL might look like
1----------------------------------Premier
2------------------First South----------------First North
------------must meet criteria & election/playoff, eg. A Championship
3-------Second Munster-----Second Connacht-Ulster-------Second Leinster
4------------Various other local Senior leagues e.g. MSL Div 1, LSL
At the moment, of course some teams are better than others, and unfortunately for me, Limerick are closer to the bottom of the list than the top.Quote:
Originally Posted by sullanefc
But this gap in quality has happened naturally, it has happened from the starting point of a level playing field. I have no problem with that.
Under the proposed AIL structure, it appears that lots of money would be given to the top clubs to improve further, while little to none would be given to the clubs at lower levels. When a club is relegated, they are to be given "parachute money" to allow them cope in the lower league, and, I assume, to help them get promoted again as quickly as possible. This is not a level playing field. The gap in quality is being artificially widened. Even the supporters of an AIL (in its current format) have admitted that.
It is not a case of the FAI holding the big clubs back, and helping the others to catch up - it is a case of ensuring that whatever progress made by any club is done fairly.
The FAI is, or is supposed to be, fair to all clubs, and show favour to none.
This new system is openly showing favour towards the big clubs through the financial incentives available. This is not fair.
I'm not bitter that my club haven't been invited - I'm aware that in their present condition, Limerick are by no means an attractive candidate, and I know this is, by and large, a result of their own doing. I don't begrudge other clubs their progress - well done to them for doing what Limerick couldn't do and make themselves consistently competitive at the top level.
But fans of clubs not invited are being asked to support a system that actively makes it more difficult for us to narrow the gap between ourselves and the bigger clubs. We have given, repeatedly, rational arguments as to why we should not support the proposed system. These arguments have not been convincingly countered. For fans of those clubs who are invited to be surprised at our lack of support for the new system, and for those fans to label our opposition to the system as "begrudgery" or "small-mindedness" is evidence they aren't able to counter our arguments.
Theres lots of talk such as the 'parachute money' which is purely speculation.
Actually, in most places 'parachute money' is for clubs making a soft landing into the premier, not out of it.
But not, it would appear, in this case. The only information we have came from a representative of a IL club who attended a meeting (Mr.Parker, I think it was), who said it is for relegated clubs.Quote:
Originally Posted by GavinZac
Again, we've nothing official about this, as far as I know, but any info we have received points to a very unfair promotion/relegation system.
Limerick is a similar sized city to Derry with one senior football side (Derry now has 3, 2 in the IL). But we manage to fund a Premier Division team with a sizeable wage bill without any sugar daddies (and its been almost a decade since we last nearly went bust....!).
The Limerick public are apathetic to senior football and I don't see why other cities and clubs should be forced to make up that deficit whether it be in an AIL or other format.
Will this 'Parachute Money' give rise to a situation where two or three clubs will be battling it out at the end of the season [I]to[I] get relegated.
Will this 'Parachute Money' give rise to a situation where two or three clubs will be battling it out at the end of the season to get relegated.
Yes, because thats what happens in the Premiership. Clubs try to get relegated.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Redie
Derry has 3 senior football sides?Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
Derry City
Institute (actually from Drumahoe)
Who is the other?:confused:
I think he means Oxford United Stars, but while they are in the Irish League Second division they are intermediate, not senior.
I've always assumed a team playing within a senior league structure is senior, my bad if they are intermediate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr A
Still, doesn't really impact the above point re Limerick.
As for Stute being from Drumahoe, excellent bit of pedantry.
They're not in a senior league structure. They're in the IFA Intermediate League Second Division.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
Is Drumahoe not a village in its own right? Seems to be separate from Derry (albeit close) any time I've been there.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
Interesting post, but it misses the point in three respects (imo).Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint MacDara
First, as proposed, the AIL is to be a breakaway "stand alone" League with one Division, comprising 12? 14? 16? clubs which happen to be from both sides of the border. It is likely (though not yet guaranteed as I've seen) that there the members will not be entrenched i.e. there will be an element of Promotion & Relegation.
Presumably the Promoted/Relegated team(s) will come from one or both of the Eircom and Carnegie Leagues, which will continue to exist (albeit minus a number of leading clubs). Therefore, your proposed "1st. Divn Nth" and "1st Divn Sth", the former having clubs from both sides of the border, is nowhere envisaged or proposed.
Second, since any new set-up will no doubt require the support (or at least acceptance) of both Associations, your suggestion will fall down on that score with the IFA, at least. That is, whilst I could possibly see them accepting 3 or 4 (even 5 or 6?) of their leading clubs leaving the Carnegie to join a League over which they had no real control, there is not a hope of their accepting the (rump) Carnegie League being effectively dismantled to allow for your "1st Divn Nth".
Third, although I think there must be a (minimum) element of P&R for this to gain acceptance from the IFA and FAI, I've no doubt that the people behind this AIL would not be happy if wide and "uncontrolled" P&R led to smaller, poorly supported clubs gaining access to the AIL Premiership to any great extent, just because they happen to have enjoyed a run of success on the field, out of proportion to their size and status.
Since TV, Corporate, sponsorship etc is such an important element of this deal, my guess is that they will restrict Promotion maybe to as few as one team per season. Further, I wouldn't be surprised if they attempt to impose additional "qualifying" criteria for Promotion to the AIL. That is, it might not be enough to win your respective Carnegie or Eircom League, or even a Play-Off between the two winners for one Promotion place.
It might be they will also require minimum facilities such as stadium capacity etc, or financial guarantees, or even minimum crowds? There may also be a geographical requirement (i.e. to try to spread the member teams throughout the island)?
My suspicions as to this last aspect stem from two aspects of such schemes. From a marketing point of view, they would much prefer a "name" like e.g. Shamrock Rovers, even if they are struggling on the pitch, to a reasonably successful, but little known club like, say, Dungannon Swifts.
And overall, if there is big money (relatively speaking) to be derived from the new League, then the founding clubs will do everything they can to "pull the ladder up behind them", so as to prevent other clubs from getting a share at their expense.
Good post, EG.
Incidentally, do you reckon Luton Town FC have since regretted voting to create the Premier League in 1992?
Drumahoe is part of Derry. Just a suburb. Used to be a village but has now been absorbed into the city.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blanchflower
Certaintly any 'Stute fans I know would consider themselves to be from "Londonderry".
Funny. Any time I've been it has been located outside the city. Clear countryside between Drumahoe and the edge of the city.Quote:
Originally Posted by pól-dcfc
Maybe they themselves live in the city?Quote:
Originally Posted by pól-dcfc
Why the inverted commas around Londonderry?