Secret All-Ireland league talks at 'advanced' stage

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Originally Posted by Not Brazil

steve,

The response of Linfield FC today is exactly the same as that given by the late David Crawford (RIP) on behalf of the club when this notion was mooted a couple of years back - I think it was one of the Derry papers that actually was first to run with the news then of "secret talks between IFA and FAI clubs"?

Something being missed is that Glentoran FC are known to be very keen on the idea of an AI League - they were certainly very bullish about it a couple of years ago.

If Glentoran FC bolted to join an AI League, you could bet your bottom dollar that Linfield FC would not be far behind them.

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its mentioned in the mirror today that the glentoran chairman has reinterated that intention and thinks its a great idea.

If linfield's chairman's biggest problem is a fear of professionalism and assuming no club can attract an average attendance of 5000 in the long run, they need a new chairman.

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Originally Posted by Not Brazil

I hope you told them that us big, bad, Linfield fans thoroughly enjoyed the hospitality afforded to us by Bohemian FC in their social club at Dalymont, prior to the Setanta game versus Shelbourne a couple of seasons back.;)

I think the Bohs fans who came to Windsor last year, in their colours, to watch a Linfield IL game thoroughly enjoyed the hospitality they received also...I heard they were speechless by the time they left.:D

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Yeah, I did; even repeated the urban legend about Billy Hutchinson .....

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Originally Posted by GavinZac

If linfield's chairman's biggest problem is a fear of professionalism and assuming no club can attract an average attendance of 5000 in the long run, they need a new chairman.

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Not how I read it, which was that he is of the opinion that for an all professional League to work long term in Ireland, clubs would need to be able to attract average crowds of 5,000 each.

I guess if it were competitive and properly run, Linfield and Glentoran and several Eircom clubs could do so. But whether enough others could to maintain a League, with promotion and relegation etc is questionable.

You've got to cut your suit according to your cloth.

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Originally Posted by GavinZac

If linfield's chairman's biggest problem is a fear of professionalism and assuming no club can attract an average attendance of 5000 in the long run, they need a new chairman.

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I find that an odd view from our esteemed Chairman.

We have 2,500 Season Ticket holders currently - the potential to develop this upwards in a better, professional, league is plain to see.

The thing is, there isnt actually a need for -every- IL team to turn professional, no more than there is need for -every- LoI team to. obviously given closer proximity and smaller catchment areas, there would be necessarily less pro teams from the IL ranks. Semi-pro teams don't need ~5000 strong attendances to keep afloat.

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Originally Posted by sonofstan

Just had a conversation at work with two colleagues about this (on foot of the piece in the paper) - both nominally LoI fans (Bohs and Dundalk) although i doubt either have been to a match in 10 years; both asked me in tones of disgust if I'd like to see Linfield in Dalymount...... I said yes of course, and that i felt I had more in common with Linfield/ Glens fans than Celtic fans from Dublin; this provoked derision. Thing is, both are SF voters - they want a united Ireland, but are squeamish at the idea of a south Belfast team in an all -Ireland league; makes you wonder what kind of republic they want....

What I'd be afraid is that it would raise all these atavistic feelings outside the cohort of current LoI/IL supporters

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You should remind your Dundalk workmate of the Dunfield program, sounds like he hasn't been to Oriel since the 70s.

If the other top IL teams get involved and start benefiting financially Linfield will have to either join or fall behind their rivals. End of story. Economics will decide that one way or another ... if in fact the other IL clubs get on board.

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Originally Posted by Not Brazil

steve,

The response of Linfield FC today is exactly the same as that given by the late David Crawford (RIP) on behalf of the club when this notion was mooted a couple of years back - I think it was one of the Derry papers that actually was first to run with the news then of "secret talks between IFA and FAI clubs"?

Something being missed is that Glentoran FC are known to be very keen on the idea of an AI League - they were certainly very bullish about it a couple of years ago.

If Glentoran FC bolted to join an AI League, you could bet your bottom dollar that Linfield FC would not be far behind them.

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Ssssshh NB !

You'll upset Steve Bruce if he realises that the footballing world doesn't revolve around Windsor Park.....! :D

I would be more in favour of Linfield and Glentoran being invited to join the Eircom league or this new breakaway league rather than an All Ireland league. This would still give the North a league and cement Northern Irelands national teams future. The rest of the teams in the North would just drag the league down plus the costs of travel for them wouldnt make it worth there while.

I prefer the idea of separate, national divisions below the joint top division. There could be a 12 team Irish Premier League and below it the FAI Championship and the IFA Championship respectively. Each year the bottom two can be relegated from the Irish Premier League and the winners of the FAI/IFA Championships can be promoted. The second place teams in the championships could have a playoff, with the winner of that going on to another playoff against the 10th placed team in the Irish Premier League for their spot.

Having separate national divisions below the top division should minimize travel issues for smaller clubs yet still provide a growth path for the more ambitious smaller clubs. It should also add reason to keep separate international squads for those it is important to.

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Originally Posted by GavinZac

its mentioned in the mirror today that the glentoran chairman has reinterated that intention and thinks its a great idea.

If linfield's chairman's biggest problem is a fear of professionalism and assuming no club can attract an average attendance of 5000 in the long run, they need a new chairman.

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If Stafford thinks it's a "great idea" then you can bet your dog-eared Setanta schedule that he'll manage to f**k it up on behalf of GFC.

In principle, I am in favour of an all-island competition, even though my own club would struggle initially, as we have been hitting nadirs on-and-off the field for two seasons now.

The very fact that we've stumbled to consecutive second places in the Irish League tells you all you need to know about the overall playing standards.

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Originally Posted by Bomb Landsdowne

I would be more in favour of Linfield and Glentoran being invited to join the Eircom league or this new breakaway league rather than an All Ireland league. This would still give the North a league and cement Northern Irelands national teams future. The rest of the teams in the North would just drag the league down plus the costs of travel for them wouldnt make it worth there while.

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I doubt if the IL could survive without them - if nothing else, it's two big crowds a year for everyone else.

I think the idea of an All Ireland super league of visionary clubs is a great idea - eventually all clubs will gain from a strong domestic scene.

It is much better than the GAA "solution" the Chairman of Sligo Rovers is trying get the FAI accept where players can only play for the country/catchment area from which they were born! I know that this 'poor mouth' West of Ireland welfare-whinger mindset is the norm there, but this is a frightening mentality in this day and age. This kind of Knacker thinking will kill the league.

So there is no other real alternative to grow domestic soccer on this island than an elite, all Ireland strategy going off on their own. If Sligo Rovers and others can't get their s h i t together then f u c k em. Why should the failure of some be the accepted benchmark for all. Sligo Rovers should change chairmen and get somebody in who thinks beyond rattling the culchie poorbox in the direction of the Pale.

The FAI have nothing to offer ambitious eircom league clubs and likewise the IFA up north with forward thinking clubs. The wage cap idea which the FAI came up with is simply a mechanism to prevent eircom league clubs from outgrowing the FAI. Nothing else. It speaks volumnes about what the FAI think of domestic soccer. "lets not get carried away lads...you're hardly Man U now!" Is this the kind of framework from which Irish domestic soccer should be developed.

The FAI and IFA are surplus to a profession successful league. If that means Kildare and Institute in the Champions League then so be it. At some point the ambitious clubs have to make their own way without the shackles of two increasingly pointless administrative bodies holding them back.

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Originally Posted by Boh_So_Good

The wage cap idea which the FAI came up with is simply a mechanism to prevent eircom league clubs from outgrowing the FAI. Nothing else. It speaks volumnes about what the FAI think of domestic soccer. "lets not get carried away lads...you're hardly Man U now!" Is this the kind of framework from which Irish domestic soccer should be developed.

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With the greatest respect, the clubs were fully involved in the drawing up of the Participation agreement. Indeed several figures welcomed the wage cap, now they are crying foul.

Whilst we blame the FAI for plenty, the clubs have to take a share of the blame here. They trumpeted the merger and are now throwing their toys out of the pram....

From this-

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I know that this 'poor mouth' West of Ireland welfare-whinger mindset is the norm there

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To 'It's all the FAI's fault, they're holding us back'-

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The wage cap idea which the FAI came up with is simply a mechanism to prevent eircom league clubs from outgrowing the FAI. Nothing else. It speaks volumnes about what the FAI think of domestic soccer. "lets not get carried away lads...you're hardly Man U now!"

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Without a hint of irony!

If anything Bohs should be in favour of the wage cap, because if their use the money their move will get them wisely they should have a sustainable income that most clubs here can only dream of. The clubs have proved that left to their own devices they will make an utter and complete balls of things due to short sighted thinking and a total lack of long term planning. If the wage cap helps the slow learners get their house in order then it should be welcomed.

Echoing the previous post, surely if Bohs are as wealthy as they claim to be (and consequently have a higher absolute wage cap), then they, of all clubs, should welcome it?

Given the single greatest legacy of the previously self-run League was abject financial mismanagement, I can't see how anyone can see the wage cap as anything other than a good idea.

Its implementation and enforcement however is a different question...

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Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

Echoing the previous post, surely if Bohs are as wealthy as they claim to be (and consequently have a higher absolute wage cap), then they, of all clubs, should welcome it?

Given the single greatest legacy of the previously self-run League was abject financial mismanagement, I can't see how anyone can see the wage cap as anything other than a good idea.

Its implementation and enforcement however is a different question...

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The age cap is the reason why nearly all the best players from the last couple of years are in England now and hence why the European performances went suddenly down.

It is a form of socialism which like all socialism creates nothing by the mundane and ordinary. You are not going to get Irish clubs into the group stages of the champions league by paying them pocket money and bus fare.

This is what the FAI are demanding and the clubs got freaked out with the SHels thing and signed up. It was a mistake - greatness IS worth the risk. Shel's gamble almost paid off. The got *this* close. It's worth the risk as some club with hit the big time eventually.

But not by being cowards and ninnies. I am glad some clubs have finally woken up to this and want out of the self-defeating wage cap.

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Originally Posted by Boh_So_Good

The age cap is the reason why nearly all the best players from the last couple of years are in England now and hence why the European performances went suddenly down.

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So the wage cap (which is only now being introduced) lead to the departure of the likes of Kevin Doyle?

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It is a form of socialism which like all socialism creates nothing by the mundane and ordinary.

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A socialist approach would be to set a flat figure wage cap. The figure is a percentage of turnover. Not sure how they're going to define that but it's a figure that varies from club to club.

This would would mean been ranked last by UEFA rankings for a number of seasons?

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Originally Posted by Boh_So_Good

The age cap is the reason why nearly all the best players from the last couple of years are in England now and hence why the European performances went suddenly down.

It is a form of socialism which like all socialism creates nothing by the mundane and ordinary. You are not going to get Irish clubs into the group stages of the champions league by paying them pocket money and bus fare.

This is what the FAI are demanding and the clubs got freaked out with the SHels thing and signed up. It was a mistake - greatness IS worth the risk. Shel's gamble almost paid off. The got *this* close. It's worth the risk as some club with hit the big time eventually.

But not by being cowards and ninnies. I am glad some clubs have finally woken up to this and want out of the self-defeating wage cap.

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You don't have a clue.

There is no wage cap now and wasn't when Doyle left.

As for your comment on Shels, if every club overspent and one or two hit the bigtime, the others would go bust. Who would be left for the successful clubs to play?

Christ on a bike.