Bigger 'Love Ulster' parade planned for Dublin...

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Originally Posted by pete

Day Tripper thugs saw last year as an excuse to riot & get steal some runners. If they only rioted to stop the Love Ulster parade why then did they vandalise random property & steal from shops? :rolleyes:

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You're right. The cars that were burnt out on Nassau Street weren't targetted for having "Love Ulster" bumper stickers or even yellow regs.

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Originally Posted by pete

I believe it is wrong to allow such an insignificant minority dictate to the other 99.9% of the Nation.

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How do you mean? Do you mean that it would be wrong if the gardaí refused to give the go-ahead to the march if they believed that this insignificant minority would cause significant and uncontainable violence? That this would somehow constitute a victory for the types that want to cause aggro, and indeed be some kind of an affront to the other 99.9% of us? Are this 99.9% of people insinuated to be in favour of this march?

Decisions like that are made every day. I'm sure there's Rovers fans who'd love to pull a Willie, as it were, at Dalymount and sit down in the middle of the Jodi and just sing and support their team, but BEST would allow the probable actions of a minority to dictate to them whether they could let them sit there or not. Is that a victory for violence and an injustice on the 99.999999% of Irish people who won't be at that match or is it an example of the application of common sense based on a rational appraisal of the likely motives of the Rovers fans and an analysis of the probably adverse reaction of the Bohs fans? The analogy is incomplete of course.

Unfortunately, though, because of what happened last year, if you're of any kind of a rioting bent the concept of a second "Love Ulster" march coming to town is understood to be an opportunity to line up against the gardaí like the heroes of '06 (the Love Ulster people were not involved in any fighting), slumming it for an afternoon and pretending you're a misunderstood, oppressed and disenfranchised punk in a police state with no other way of expressing your frustration at being continually downtrodden by those cursed triumphalist Orangies.

In my gut I feel that they do have the right to march; in my heart I hope they march and are met with tumbleweeds and possibly an eighty-year-old man from Sandymount waving a union flag; in my head I don't see what letting them get their riot would accopmlish.

There is no way that this march can pass off peacefully now, after the precedent that was set last year by dint of a combination of factors. It is still unclear what exactly they're ostenisbly hoping to achieve ("we think the time is right just after the elections" :rolleyes:) except for to cause a major headache for the government, the gardaí, and the handwringing classes, and to create some kind of instability in the Six Counties.

I'm unsure as to whether it has definitely gotten the official nod from the gardaí, though. Has it?

Willie Frazer was never a member of the UVF. His Father was in the RUC and was killed by the IRA, his brother was in the RUC and killed by the IRA. He has no involvement with any Loyalist Terrorist Factions.

Secondly i DO NOT support the march, i merely do not oppose it, they have every right to march in dublin or anywhere. The orange order and Loyalism is an aspect of Irish (anglo-irish) culture and just like Republicanism deserves respect. I am not a Loyalist, but i am anti-republican.

Finally, i have no connection with the FAIR group, i was merely covering it for a London Paper.

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Originally Posted by rebelarmyexile

As one of only two photographers authorised to travel on the buses and be within the FAIR Campaign marchers in Dublin last year,...

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Can you describe their reactions when the march was cancelled and they had to return north? (Expressing as few homophobic sentiments as possible, mind you.)

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Originally Posted by Erstwhile Bóz

Can you describe their reactions when the march was cancelled and they had to return north? (Expressing as few homophobic sentiments as possible, mind you.)

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Most people were pretty scared, by the time rioting started the police recommended that elderly marchers and children get back on to the buses, while towards the end it was only the bands the politicians, and police left on parnell square.

If Dublin people simply attempted to go up and interact with out northern Loyalist neighbours, there would be far less hatred.

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Originally Posted by rebelarmyexile

If Dublin people simply attempted to go up and interact with out northern Loyalist neighbours, there would be far less hatred.

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ffs will you spare us :rolleyes: you are either phenominally naive about their motives or have an agenda. or i suspect, bith.

if they didnt commerate the murderer of 33 people across the road, maybe they might meet less hostility.

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Originally Posted by rebelarmyexile

The orange order and Loyalism is an aspect of Irish (anglo-irish) culture and just like Republicanism deserves respect.

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It is nothing to do with Irish culture.

I'm not going into "who lost what before" debate, I am against this march taking place in Dublin, or anywhere else in the Republic of Ireland.

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Originally Posted by rebelarmyexile

If Dublin people simply attempted to go up and interact with out northern Loyalist neighbours, there would be far less hatred.

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How do you know they wouldn't have attempted so to do, had the march gone ahead and were it not for the rioters confronting the police? As one of the Dublin people myself I know you can't possibly intend the term to be limited to the rioting thugs.

The only chance this thing ever had of going off peacefully was that day last year, if the tiny protest hadn't have been joined by the afternoon drunks. I had no notion that they had anything to do with any Dublin/Monaghan bomber or any clue that Willie Frazer was involved at all. I just heard "loyalist bands", "Love Ulster" and thought it was a comical idea and hoped we wouldn't be embarrassed.

No chance of it now. Every anti-Protestant knuckle-dragging West-Belfast underclass wannabe has a list of objections as long as your arm this time around to justify a day out fighting the guards for the cause.

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Originally Posted by Erstwhile Bóz

No chance of it now. Every anti-Protestant knuckle-dragging West-Belfast underclass wannabe has a list of objections as long as your arm this time around to justify a day out fighting the guards for the cause.

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are people that hoplessly lost in this debate that they think thats a factor? :eek:

is it not possible for the gardai to see this pass off peacefully? Would a few thousand police (even army) be able to do that?

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Originally Posted by osarusan

is it not possible for the gardai to see this pass off peacefully? Would a few thousand police (even army) be able to do that?

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To be honest if you need to call a few thousand Gardai in, or the Army, for a simple thing like a parade, should that not show you that its not worthwhile? I mean its hardly a celebration, or a remembrance to walk down a street flanked by people with machine guns is it?

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Originally Posted by jebus

To be honest if you need to call a few thousand Gardai in, or the Army, for a simple thing like a parade, should that not show you that its not worthwhile? I mean its hardly a celebration, or a remembrance to walk down a street flanked by people with machine guns is it?

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Not worthwhile based on what criteria?

I'm not talking about this case in particular, but just because something is unpopular enough to require a strong police presence, this does not make it not worthwhile.

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Originally Posted by rebelarmyexile

The orange order and Loyalism is an aspect of Irish (anglo-irish) culture and just like Republicanism deserves respect.

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Well said rebelarmyexile.

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Originally Posted by mypost

It is nothing to do with Irish culture

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Yes it does. And a clue to the reason why lies in the final part of your statement:

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Originally Posted by mypost

...I am against this march taking place in Dublin, or anywhere else in the Republic of Ireland.

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Why do you specify only the Republic of Ireland, why not all of it?

Check out the new and improved Articles 2 & 3:

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Originally Posted by Article 3

"It is the firm will of the Irish Nation, in harmony and friendship, to unite all the people who share the territory of the island of Ireland, in all the diversity of their identities and traditions..."

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Originally Posted by osarusan

Not worthwhile based on what criteria?

I'm not talking about this case in particular, but just because something is unpopular enough to require a strong police presence, this does not make it not worthwhile.

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Not in essence, it has to be taken on a case to case basis. Marching in favour of discrimination against homosexuals in Moscow with an army presence is worthwhile, marching in favour of Osama Bin Laden through New York with an army presence isn't.

I would put this Love Ulster parade in the Osama category, although obviously not as hate provoking as that march would be, it still is designed to enflame tensions that are simmering in quite a few people, and nothing else

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Originally Posted by jebus

Not in essence, it has to be taken on a case to case basis.

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Agreed, which is why I said this (the bit in bold)

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Originally Posted by osarusan

but just because something is unpopular enough to require a strong police presence, this does not make it not worthwhile.

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In other words, unpopularity itself, regardless of the cause, is not enough by itself to justify stopping the march/parade.



Regarding the second part of your post, is this what you meant to say?

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Originally Posted by jebus

Marching in favour of discrimination against homosexuals in Moscow with an army presence is worthwhile

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Originally Posted by OhNoYouDidn't

are people that hoplessly lost in this debate that they think thats a factor? :eek:

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It is for some, for definite. Not in a deep-rooted theological sense, but rather one of copycat bigotry.

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Originally Posted by jebus

couple dozen Dublin scumbags who will go along for the looting.

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Funny that. seem to remember of the 13 arrests made for looting on the day 5 were latvian , 2 lithuanians and a romainian

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Originally Posted by rebelarmyexile

As one of only two photographers authorised to travel on the buses and be within the FAIR Campaign marchers in Dublin last year, i can catagorically tell you there were Nationalists and Catholics involved. I was talking with an elderly gentleman (Catholic) and his wife who lost the son (RUC officer), another example was a whole family from the Falls road (all catholic) whose son was mistakenly killed by the PIRA as they thought he was a drug dealer.

The media and general public has put out this view that FAIR is a Loyalist ONLY Victims group, this is totally untrue.

Willie Frazer's work in the South Armagh region has been applauded by both sectors of societys. his assistance helped the psni and guardi nail spud murphy.

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cat out of the bag now;)

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Originally Posted by Erstwhile Bóz

I just heard "loyalist bands", "Love Ulster" and thought it was a comical idea and hoped we wouldn't be embarrassed.

No chance of it now. Every anti-Protestant knuckle-dragging West-Belfast underclass wannabe has a list of objections as long as your arm this time around to justify a day out fighting the guards for the cause.

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oh yeah, embarrassed...........god what would the neighbours think!:rolleyes:

im not anti- protestant, couldnt give a flying feck about religion, but i def wouldnt like to see some anti-irish fools lord it down our capital, and i cant see why the hell any normal person would.

Why is it ok for republican marches to take place in Dublin city centre, largely made up of supporters/friends or even people who took part in terrorist activities on this island, killing just as many nationalist/catholics as unionists/loyalist?

Are these marches ok cos they are "pro-irish" and is the love ulster march not ok cos it percieved as "anti-irish".

PS: How is it anti-irish?

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Originally Posted by reder

Why is it ok for republican marches to take place in Dublin city centre, largely made up of supporters/friends or even people who took part in terrorist activities on this island, killing just as many nationalist/catholics as unionists/loyalist?

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Because they are not marching down the streets of the relatives of their victims? I'm no supporter of republicanism and I'm not strongly opposed to the march but I can see that distinction.