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06/03/2025, 7:50 AM
joey B

Quote:

Originally Posted by Another Bohemia

So my thoughts on looking at them are a bit complex. Devines tenure as Bohs coach started well but descended into farce. At the end Gary Cronin gave an interview that painted a picture (to me at least) that Devine was very hands off as a manager and let the coaches do what they want, basically ended up being the inmates running the asylum. His transfer policy was a disaster to the point where we started the season 1 injury away from an injury crisis (which happened in the first half of the first game of the season). Players were obviously unfit and the team lacked any real game plan. Suddenly he's a great manager at glentoran and all of these issues have disappeared? Sure part of them could be attributed to Bohs (especially the inmates running the asylum part with coaches and it's why I'm so confused that we have coaches that have spanned 3 managers). So I'm looking past Devine as the source of that success and looking at his 2nds in command. I think people can change and improve obviously but not at such a rapid rate. The alternative is that the Irish league is several step steps below the LOI in terms of professionalism and quality which I'm don't believe.

Secondly I think the Bohs job (should it come up in the very near future) isn't going to be attractive to established managers. Many Bohs fans will want Doherty from Drogheda but I just can't see a world where he leaves a team he built that is entering Europe for a project he may see as a complete rebuild. So you need to look at people who "may not be ready". There was no evidence that Duff was ready but Shels have won a league under him, there was no evidence Long was ready for the Bohs job when he got it and he did well until the job got too much for him imo. With managers I think it's more a personality thing than being ready/not ready. All managers are coaches but not all coaches can be managers, as appears to be the case with Reynolds

Bohs are fascinating to me,they are totally unique I�d say in LOI terms in that performance on the pitch has had no impact on attendance or interest in the club,their commercial side probably deserves awards for how it is performing but the football side is the complete opposite ,you could say the cultural side of the club has completely outgrown the football side and I�d imagine there�s a lot of older supporters that hate it!
Again fascinating and unique in the LOI id say��
06/03/2025, 9:43 AM
Another Bohemia

Quote:

Originally Posted by joey B

Bohs are fascinating to me,they are totally unique I�d say in LOI terms in that performance on the pitch has had no impact on attendance or interest in the club,their commercial side probably deserves awards for how it is performing but the football side is the complete opposite ,you could say the cultural side of the club has completely outgrown the football side and I�d imagine there�s a lot of older supporters that hate it!
Again fascinating and unique in the LOI id say��

Yeah its a bit of an enigma at the moment. There are people (bohs fans and non fans) who think the commercial stuff is whats causing the football side to be a disaster but I would disagree with that. They are almost like 2 different companies with different people at the helm and responsible for the decisions (Fenlon on the football side & Lambert on the commercial side). I'm sure they interact, share ideas etc but neither would have any sway over the others remit as far as I am aware.

As to whether the commercial side has outgrown the football side. Its an interesting question. Bohs posted losses in 2023 so financially the football side is arguably still bigger. Results on the pitch certainly arent up to snuff but Bohs have had to cut the footballing budget this year so more commercial output is probably needed to be sustainable as you cant rely on winning a league or qualifying for europe every year. So then I wonder is it more a question that the rest of the leagues commercial output is undersized compared to what it should or could be and Bohs commercial side seems like a juggarnaut in comparison?
06/03/2025, 10:09 AM
Another Bohemia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nesta99

Devines ability to get underperforming sides playing suggests that he has the personality to motivate. The way they fade though suggests that he relies heavily on that one attribute and doesnt pay enough attention to detail. Like he treats S+C just like a goalkeeper so they cant stay in games in the end. A manager like him needs peole around him to delegate to, could be argued as lazy but I think any successful side has a coaching team that compliment each other rather than one footballing genius. Wasnt Fenlon involved with transfers at Bohs? Even if it was said after that Devine rejected Fenlons signings, it doesnt make much sense imo as with a DoF model signings are made (preferably in areement with the head coach) and injuries would have forced those players to have been selected. From the outside looking in Devine at Bohs just looked to have quickly lost interest in the 'project' and I cant see Fenlon the easiest to overrule or to work with as a coach as he would pull rank and think he knew best. Could be there is just a good mix of people at Glentoran, even just less comuting/closer to home and there is more interest, stung by criticism and lifted his own game?

I think Bohs wiould have to go out of the league to find a manager unless promoting the assistant. There are good fits in the league but as suggested they may not want to move without a big offer. Bohs is an attractive job and as a club would be a step up for Doherty and the like even if they were leaving the top work theyve done behind. It will be about timing.

So Fenlon is still involved in transfers but his role is much broader than just mens first team so hes not actively scouting, reccommending every signing etc. All football teams and football operations fall under his remit as far as I know so thats Mens team, womens team and underage teams (boys and girls) on top of that any footballing facilities improvements are his as well from what I understand. So while he got a lot of flack for the poor offseason (ins and outs) that ultimately lead to Devines sacking I think his role in that is probably a lot smaller than any of us think. Thats kinda backed up by how quickly Reynolds has been able to build basically an entirely new squad on a smaller budget. I assume Fenlon does recommend signings if he knows of them but he seems to be more a liason between the board and manager getting sign off on contracts, budgets etc. Manager still has a lot of say in signings essentially and Reynolds has said before that he has final say on the squad building. So a good chunk of blame lies at Devines feet there.

I agree with your broad point on Devine that he is primarily a motivator and that does fade fairly quickly without the right team around you but looking at Glentorans results they seem to be fairly consistent for his tenure. In fact his first 6 games have a worse points per game than his last 6 so he has obviously built a decent coaching staff around him that are able to pick up his slack. I'm of the opinion that there is significant slack that needs to be picked up and I think thats a credit to his assistants hence I think they could be good options for a club who may need to look outside the league for a new manager. Now you rightly point out that it could jsut be Devine never settled at Bohs because he wanted to be closer to home, felt he was overly criticised, didnt work well with Fenlon (although I recall from an onstage interview he did during the benefit fror Mono that he actually wanted to work with Fenlon. The board clued him in on them getting a director of football in when he was hired and asked who he would like to work with and he had sugessed Fenlon himself. Now maybe thats all lip service or the reality was different than what he expected). Theres plenty of reasons Devine & Bohs may not have worked out but based on what the Derry Fans were saying at the time of the hiring (He'll start off strong and the team will fall off a cliff) its almost exactly what happened to Bohs, the timeline was probably shorter than expected but that would be the only unexpected thing.
06/03/2025, 11:00 AM
Nesta99

I think we were all talking about his free scoring Derry during the early leagu rounds, they battered Dundalk then they were unrecognisable later on, almost as bad as the Roddy Derry side. Fair comment on things being a lot more complicated when things go wrong or the eccentricities of how a club is run. Its good that fans have that insight, it important! I doubt we will ever really know how things were truly structured at Dundalk that ultimately led to relegation and almost the end of the club. Benefits of a membership model that club admin want and embrace.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Another Bohemia

Yeah its a bit of an enigma at the moment. There are people (bohs fans and non fans) who think the commercial stuff is whats causing the football side to be a disaster but I would disagree with that. They are almost like 2 different companies with different people at the helm and responsible for the decisions (Fenlon on the football side & Lambert on the commercial side). I'm sure they interact, share ideas etc but neither would have any sway over the others remit as far as I am aware.

As to whether the commercial side has outgrown the football side. Its an interesting question. Bohs posted losses in 2023 so financially the football side is arguably still bigger. Results on the pitch certainly arent up to snuff but Bohs have had to cut the footballing budget this year so more commercial output is probably needed to be sustainable as you cant rely on winning a league or qualifying for europe every year. So then I wonder is it more a question that the rest of the leagues commercial output is undersized compared to what it should or could be and Bohs commercial side seems like a juggarnaut in comparison?

Every club would love to have the commercial side of things being maximised, its mostly a wind up when people here slag Bohs off for not being a football club first. There was a point when Bohs finances improved that there wasnt investment in the playing side under Long but it was prudent!? The alternative is that the football side of things would have been the same but losses bigger. I dont think the team has been neglected now at all, things just havent worked as is often the case.
06/03/2025, 11:38 AM
placid casual

Boez commercial success appears to be targeted at a certain demographic,and fair play if they're getting money in the building from that. But surely that demographic is largely a transient (excuse the pun) one and has no correlation to success on the pitch (a LOI St Pauli).
Assuming the ground gets redeveloped it's the family demographic they should really target as that ensures a constant stream of revenue over potential generations of fans

On a purely football point of view the signing of Morahan, Whelan,the ponytailed bloke from waterford and the EPL headcase looks like good business by Reynolds, so what gives, are the players not "responding" to his methods or is it just some boez fans are losing the cheese off their cracker after only 4 games in!!?
06/03/2025, 11:53 AM
Nesta99

When Dalymount is developed then famalies and long term tickets can be targeted, right now it kinda has to be just about bums (excuse the pun) on seats. If revenue in is good then in theory the football side of things should be doing better but Derry, Rovers and Shels show its not always about wealth. Its a bit early to be throwing toys out of the pram but Reynolds just seemed to be doomed from day dot (any reason why?) and it was going to take a super turn around in form to get fans onside but so far with 2 transfer windows there hasnt been a significant upturn in results. That stat on home wins really jumps out and would for any manager.
06/03/2025, 12:57 PM
Shinkicker

Quote:

Originally Posted by placid casual

Boez commercial success appears to be targeted at a certain demographic,and fair play if they're getting money in the building from that. But surely that demographic is largely a transient (excuse the pun) one and has no correlation to success on the pitch (a LOI St Pauli).
Assuming the ground gets redeveloped it's the family demographic they should really target as that ensures a constant stream of revenue over potential generations of fans

On a purely football point of view the signing of Morahan, Whelan,the ponytailed bloke from waterford and the EPL headcase looks like good business by Reynolds, so what gives, are the players not "responding" to his methods or is it just some boez fans are losing the cheese off their cracker after only 4 games in!!?

On the jersey front Bohs have cracked it but their other merch is very limited and contains a flag from another country. (Which I refuse to buy) I saw recently they are looking for a design/merch person and as they are proud of their roots maybe there's a market to be tapped into if the designs are really good and not politically motivated.
06/03/2025, 1:14 PM
Another Bohemia

Quote:

Originally Posted by placid casual

Boez commercial success appears to be targeted at a certain demographic,and fair play if they're getting money in the building from that. But surely that demographic is largely a transient (excuse the pun) one and has no correlation to success on the pitch (a LOI St Pauli).
Assuming the ground gets redeveloped it's the family demographic they should really target as that ensures a constant stream of revenue over potential generations of fans

On a purely football point of view the signing of Morahan, Whelan,the ponytailed bloke from waterford and the EPL headcase looks like good business by Reynolds, so what gives, are the players not "responding" to his methods or is it just some boez fans are losing the cheese off their cracker after only 4 games in!!?

I think the family demographic is already being targeted. Bohs are running a program about inclusivity in primary schools at the moment and linked with primary schools to help in the annual toy drive over Christmas. I think that was reflected in the families being fairly prominent from both sides in the opening game in the Aviva. Capacity in Dalymount is the current issue there.

On the Reynolds stuff we've been worse than we were under Devine. We've won 1 league game in Dalymount since the middle of April last year. Initially there were a significant number of fans who didn't want him as a manager as they disliked him as a player and a coach. The turnaround of the squad has given hope to some (myself included) but I'd be lying if I was to say I'm convinced he's the right man for the job. I think he's built a great team on paper, undoubtedly stronger than last year but squad balance is still an issue (far too many midfielders and not enough full backs) and we look like we lack a real plan when we get to the final third. I think we played our best attacking game against Cork but we scored 1 goal from a massive deflection from a pot shot by a midfielder who's more known for his work off the ball than being adept on the ball. In total we have 2 goals in the 4 games and we didn't deserve to score against Drogs or Derry. We may not have even had a shot on target in those 2 games, it's just not good enough.

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