I think people who think an experienced Premiership midfielder is worse than some lad playing for Dundalk are trolling or stupid. The best team in the League of Ireland just lost to a team from Estonia. I'm sure a player from a less successful team would do just awesome against Portugal. What planet are these people on? Did Hendrick kill a relative of their's, perhaps?Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
I can't recall a time when morale has been lower heading into an international window.
When Andorra scored against us, most of my friend who watch football basically shrugged and said something like, "That figures". The optimists said "At least Kenny may be sacked now". But yeah, we're **** and we know it.Quote:
Originally Posted by zero
You can have poor players, if you have a good manager, but you cant have both.
Sept 1st to Sept 7th. will be a long week guys. I fear I will be feeling very sorry for kenny by the end of it
I doubt that. Picking Carey - who moved to mainland Europe, has won a domestic trophy, played and scored in European competition - would at least show that Kenny is looking outside the UK to populate the squad. What does it say to players who might in a similar situation to, for example, Elbouzedi, who was playing in the lower divisions in England before moving to Sweden, why bother with a move like that when you've a better chance of getting into the squad at Forest's reserves?Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
Same with Kilkenny, finally getting his chance in a team many expect to challenge for promotion from the Championship, but players with minimal (if any) first team experience this season are included ahead of him?
"FFS, he doesnt even know his best 22 at this stage. Chopping and changing."
"How good is that Bulgarian league anyway, pub league stuff."
"He's 32 for christ sake when we need to focus on bringing players through"
"Elbouzedi - sure he coudnt hack it in the scottish and irish pub leagues"
I can hear it all now Tets. Don't kid yourself.
As i said, Kilkenny in the squad was a marginal call and a case to be made for why he should have been in there. At a minimum, here's hoping he's got plans to bring him in if he can keep performing well over a longer stretch than 3 games. Picking and playing him against Portugal with no caps would be a mistake no matter how well he is playing for Bournemouth and he'd be crucified if it backfired. Arter brings squad seniority and experience of SK's gameplans and his strengths/limitations are more known to Kenny. For those reasons alone i can see why he picked him even if he's been on the fringes for Forest for the last few games.
YeH I agree with this , that front man then really has to work his socks off and have the pace to worry defenders a bit so I'd go idah for that but I wouldn't be surprised if we get Collins. There is a decent midfield 3 to be had maybe Cullen hendrick and molumby? I don't think manning as a defensive midfielder might be unrealistic either in the circumstances ( I.e. very few quality midfielder s). Hoping for kelleher in goals but what a great option bazunu is also
The playoff against the dutch for the 96 euros now that was bleak times ( it seemed like all we had were fullbacks) it was the most one sided 2 nil defeat I've ever seen, purely outclassedQuote:
Originally Posted by John83
Yep. And yet look at the team -
Alan Kelly
Gary Kelly
Paul McGrath
Phil Babb
Denis Irwin
Jeff Kenna
Andy Townsend (Jason McAteer 51)
John Sheridan
Terry Phelan
John Aldridge (Alan Kernaghan 72)
Tony Cascarino
There isn't a single player in the current squad who would get into that team. If them were bleak times (and I know where you're coming from), what have we now?
Depends on your definition of stupidity? What is it they say about trying the same thing over and over and expecting a different result ( insert the names of Hendrick and Hourihane here with all of their PL experience). No one in whatever line of work they're in are given limitless opportunities to try and keep failingQuote:
Originally Posted by John83
Picking a Newcastle player over a Dundalk player isn't stupidity. And Duffy instead of Hendrick wouldn't remotely mean that the match outcome wouldn't be the same, if not worse.
We are in a difficult situation. But hourihane isnt even good enough for the u21. I mean that. I would have Noss, Ryan J and kilkenny ahead of him. If we are comfortable throwing Gavin B into the lions den and that's in goals why not one of those lads? Because Gavin has 3 caps?
We have no-one else to play in nets. If we had a Premier Division starter, he would be playing.
I agree Hourihane frustrates the bejaysus out of me. But those other options are nobodies at the moment.
Your absolutely right. I suppose it was falling from the heights of 18 months before to that nightmarish finish to that campaign and then the comparison with that dutch side on the night who were so vibrant so talented seemed so young . The way the dutch played that night just seemed so out of reach to what we had to offer., just seemed like we would never get to that level and obviously we never did.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Times are bleak now. I'm not convinced the talent coming through can lift us back to where the talent that came through after 96 got us to by 2002. There is certainly no robbie keane or duff level player is there? Is there a richard dunne( playing for Everton as a wing back at 17)? There certainly is no roy keane. God I'm not sure there's even a player as talented as Mark Kennedy ( remember signed by Liverpool as a teenager) or Stephen mcphail(champion league at 20) .. christ now that I'm depressed I can't even see a new Richie partridge on the horizon!
Its like being on a bare tree at the moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by liamoo11
Was one of our best players in the 2018 qualifiers as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
Since then, everyone's been ****.
People just take it out on Hendrick because they remember him being good.
I'd have Seamus Coleman over Gary Kelly and Matt Doherty over Jeff Kenna.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Sean McDermott is playing regularly for Kristiansund, fifth in the table at the momentQuote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
The fact you are even naming those players shows we have no viable alternative.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
OK, I'll try to cheer you up, Liamoo!! But before I start, I'm going to say that, like many Irish fans, I have written off this campaign. But the next qualifying campaign doesn't start for another eighteen months, which is plenty time for many young players we've been talking about to establish themselves and even for a couple we're not even thinking about to emerge. I also want to note that during the mid-to-late 1990s, it was easier to break into a Premier League club as the full effect of the Bosman ruling hadn't been felt yet and there were only a handful of South American and African players at that level. So with that said, let's analyze our young prospects to see where we could be for the next campaign:Quote:
Originally Posted by liamoo11
Goalkeepers - Three highly talented young shot stoppers:
Kelleher - Champions League winner and back-up to one of the best keepers in the world
Travers - First teenage goalkeeper to start a Premier League game since Joe Hart in 2006, scored a wonder-goal on his professional debut and now looks like he's first-choice, for now anyway
Bazunu - Professional debut aged 16, international debut aged 19, starting to look the part at Portsmouth
We also have some talented keepers in their mid-20s at Championship clubs (Pym, O'Leary and Bonham) - remember, Randolph didn't establish himself as a championship regular until his mid-20s
Defenders
Dara O'Shea is now established as a Premier league quality and international player, still only 22
Nathan Collins - Championship Debut aged 17, will likely be an established EPL player by the time he's 21 after a transfer that probably had an eight-figure price tag
Andrew Omobamidele - Championship debut aged 18, likely EPL regular before turning 20
There's also McGuinness, Dunne, Masterson, O'Hora, McNamara and Kioso in The Championship and League One, with Garcia-McNulty, Furlong, McEntee and O'Brien within sight of their respective first teams
Midfield
Picture isn't quite as clear but there is still the possibility of a serious wave of talent being available by the time the Euro 24 qualifiers roll around with the following list on the horizon:
Will Smallbone - injury has stopped us fully knowing how good he is but he scored on his professional debut and was only 20 when he made his EPL bow.
Conor Coventry - looks ready to make a breakthrough at West Ham
Finn-Benoa - La Liga debut aged 17, Getafe's youngest player
Jason Knight - Championship debut aged 18, now fully established, seven caps, one international goal, still only 20
Jayson Molumby - mixed success so far but a good season at West Brom would put him right back on track
Gavin Kilkenny - took a bit of time but gaining plaudits for his performances this season
Andrew Moran - senior debut for Bray aged 15, Brighton senior debut aged 17 after a mere 123 minutes of U23 action
Conor Noss - seems close to a Bundesliga breakthrough
Ryan Johansson - sounds like a serious talent - we'll see how his Eredivisie season goes
Festy Ebosele - showed a lot of promise in his recent games for Derby
Louie Watson - I know it was only a League Cup game against Salford, but he ripped their defence apart on several occasions - if that's what he's about, we have a serious talent on our hands
Forwards
As I've said before, this is our most exciting area, when it comes to young talent coming through, starting with the quartet who have already broken through
Aaron Connolly - EPL brace aged 19 against Spurs, could do with a good season this year, though
Adam Idah - hat-trick on his senior debut aged 18, scored 3 Championship goals last season in spite of playing mostly garbage minutes
Michael Obafemi - Southampton's second-youngest EPL debutant and youngest scorer, stunner of a goal against Chelsea, if he takes that move to Blackburn, could be a chance to really establish himself
Troy Parrott - EPL debut aged 17, has gained valuable experience since then even if he hasn't set the world alight - if his recent form is a guide could well be ready to fulfil his potential very soon - still only 19 and has two international goals
And the trio who might be even better (subject to two of them committing their futures to us)
Mipo Odubeko - better U23 stats than any of the above, senior debut for West Ham aged 18
Evan Ferguson - Senior debut for Bohs aged 14, senior debut for Brighton aged 16
Armstrong Okoflex - a couple of questionable club choices but his recent hat-trick for West Ham U23s is hopefully a sign of his potential
And there's even more talent on the striker front who could come through either just before or during the next Euro campaign; Scully, particularly, but also Varian, Kayode and Afolabi
I only expect a few international retirements after this campaign so by March 2023 it's entirely possible we will have a very strong squad with a mix of youth and experience.