The 'Kenny Shiels is quite the interesting character' thread.

I dont think people want to get Rovers fans to acknowledge Kenny's achievements one way or another or do the what might have been stuff. Its just the way things happened in general seemed odd. It was a very quick dismissal by any standards and contrasts dramatically with the length of time others got with similar records at the point Kenny was sacked. Player power is the general consensus for pulling the trigger quickly. The Bohs defeat was the final straw but the Bradley has lost 3 derbys this season, has made poor calls like on the keeper situation and hasnt significantly progressed on last season. There was something messy going on at the time between players and management and the board sided with the players obviously. Rovers have pretty much stagnated since. Now Kenny may have continued to have had a poor time but usually managers in LoI get a season unless in freefall to relegation. The ability of a manager like Stephen Kenny would have most clubs give a chance to turn things around but he wasnt. When you consider that there were reports in the media at the time of lockouts, players not training, refusing to commit to the strength and consitioning, dietry programmes, additional training sessions etc. The attitude seemed to be we've just won back to back titles doing it this way and we are not changing. O'Donnell has alluded to certain players at the time thinking they were complete footballers and knew it all so didnt graft it. It no coincidence I think that O'Donnell was practically Kenny's first signing. I dont mean any of this as criticism or anything, its trying to tease out why a manager of top pedigree didnt even get a season and it often takes that long for a team ethos to change. It was a bit of a rebuild that was happening and needed but that was obstructed imo. Rovers have been under par ever since. When you ten see what was achieved after at Dundalk with the calibre of team put together months later that nearly won the league at first attempt and kicked on spectacularly. If there had been years or other jobs in between there is no questions to be considered on what happened. Between sacking in September and the new job January the basis of a team was built that has pretty much dominated since and it has to be considered that the same template was being worked from at both clubs.

I've no idea why he was sacked at rovers or dunfirmiline or anywhere else. The idea that there is a template is ridiculous. Brian clough won a league 2 European cups and two league cups in 3 or 4 years at forest and won nothing much for the next 13 or 14 years. Liverpool won the league pretty much at will through the late 70s and eightys and haven't won a league in heading for 30 years , rovers won six cups in a row and haven't won one in 30 years Managers / clubs have hot spots it doesn't make them geniuses it's just what happens before things change again. I reckon as I said earlier that the truth of his sacking at rovers was fault on both sides, maybe he learned from it and took a different approach at dundalk. He is heading for 20 years in management so I'd say it's all part of a learn ijng process

What I meant by template is that there was such a short amount of time between being at the 2 clubs similar transfer targets could have been in mind. The need to have players that would have done what was required of them with Graham Byrne etc. Having an idea of player that will compliment each other as a team rather than a bunch of galacticos for example. I know that football is cyclical and what works for a manager at one club may not be replicated at another. But in this instance it wouldnt be surprising that plans that were in progress at Rovers when the job came to an abrupt premature end that those same plans, give or take, were subsequently implemented in Dundalk a few short mmonths later. If there was a lesson learned that has been taken in to the Dundalk job it is possibly how fussy Kenny is on the character of a player as much as their ability.

Nah couldn't accept that virtual full team under contract and the people he did bring in were poor.

I don't know why it's so important to you to portray his failure at rovers or dunfirmiline as aberrations which if they hadn't happened would have led to dunfirmiline winning tyhe spl and rovers winning six in a row all managers fail at some point. He's on a good run at dundalk enjoy it while it lasts. If he wins nothing for a year or so at dfc you'll have people calling for his head (If he even stays that long) at the moment he is the messiah but so was Brian clough or any manager who has a successful spell

I think he was harshly treated both those times but eah to their own. Dunfurnline didnt kick on after and neither did Rovers. In general I dont like a player power play that forces the hand of a board. Bruce at Villa is a current example of a manaer being pushed after only 2 losses in 10 or so and after being in a play-off - delusions of granduer by fans on this occasion.

Maybe your right and he was harshly treated and maybe every other club should have kept him on as well and achieved greatness or maybe he is mortal and has found a place that works for him for now.
I'm inclined to think he is a good manager on a roll rather than the messiah who will deliver automatic success year after year if only the board / club will refrain from sacking him or allowing him leave without making him an offer he can't refuse

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Originally Posted by sbgawa

Lol you have us sussed.
It was never a penalty btw :)

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still narked by the Drogheda debacle or all of Bradser's 'cup finals' :cool:

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Originally Posted by sbgawa

Lol another one at it. Schoolboy clubs farm kids out. Rovers sell one professional player to Manchester city and the player gets a decent contract to match unlike the 150quid a week at Stevenage and the likes that Kevin's and joeys are happy with. Credit where it's due boys rovers have invested more than any other club in their academy, have a bit of perspective.

I can acknowledge Kenny is a good msnager and bohs serve good craft beer. Everything about rovers isnt negative.

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very true, Rovers left Dublin city ;)

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Originally Posted by marinobohs

still narked by the Drogheda debacle or all of Bradser's 'cup finals' :cool:

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After 30+ years waiting if I let losing a cup match upset me I'd be permanently depressed.

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Originally Posted by sbgawa

Maybe your right and he was harshly treated and maybe every other club should have kept him on as well and achieved greatness or maybe he is mortal and has found a place that works for him for now.
I'm inclined to think he is a good manager on a roll rather than the messiah who will deliver automatic success year after year if only the board / club will refrain from sacking him or allowing him leave without making him an offer he can't refuse

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Now you are just talking out of your aras!!

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Originally Posted by marinobohs

still narked by the Drogheda debacle or all of Bradser's 'cup finals' :cool:

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Those were all marked null and void when the bozo defender lumped your man in the air with a minute to go, thus guaranteeing Rovers the best part of €400k and a nice trip to Europe next year.
Still, enjoy the Rab C Nesbitt cup and all that it brings you. Quite apt really, when you think of it. Och aye the noo!

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Originally Posted by placid casual

Those were all marked null and void when the bozo defender lumped your man in the air with a minute to go, thus guaranteeing Rovers the best part of €400k and a nice trip to Europe next year.
Still, enjoy the Rab C Nesbitt cup and all that it brings you. Quite apt really, when you think of it. Och aye the noo!

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400k ? Might cover your recent losses so, or will you have to sell the other half of your 'members owned club' ;)

We could all take lessons from Bohs on how to sell three halves of things in fairness

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Originally Posted by marinobohs

Shams hoovering up of any decent schoolboy players is similar to Bray of a few years back - all of the players they “developed” were outstanding at other schoolboy clubs before going to shams.
A “too good to refuse offer’ can be anything - especially as the performance indicator appears to be players sold (Burke and Bazunu the ones regularly quoted).
Outbidding other schoolboy clubs is neither new or innovative but does cover up a lack of progress at senior level.

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First off Bazunu has been at the club pretty much since he started playing football so wasn't "outstanding at other schoolboy clubs" before he joined Rovers, also he started as a midfielder and moved in goals while at Rovers so you're talking out your arse there.

Secondly the fact players were at other clubs before Rovers doesn't mean Rovers didn't develop them. Development doesn't work as a onece off event its a continuous process. You could take all the best schoolboy players and put them in a team and not develop them and they'd do great for a few years then be surpassed by others, that's not what Rovers are doing.

Thirdly a too good to refuse offer by definition has to have players sold as the performance indicators as that's literally the definition of the term, if they weren't sold the offer wouldn't have been too good to refuse now would it.

Finally out bidding nothing new or innovative but having a clear pathway to professional football with full-time coaches, top class facilities and allowing education and professional football at youth level, yes that is something that's new in Ireland and everyone associated with the league with a bit of sense will say as such.

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Originally Posted by Nesta99

What I meant by template is that there was such a short amount of time between being at the 2 clubs similar transfer targets could have been in mind. The need to have players that would have done what was required of them with Graham Byrne etc. Having an idea of player that will compliment each other as a team rather than a bunch of galacticos for example. I know that football is cyclical and what works for a manager at one club may not be replicated at another. But in this instance it wouldnt be surprising that plans that were in progress at Rovers when the job came to an abrupt premature end that those same plans, give or take, were subsequently implemented in Dundalk a few short mmonths later. If there was a lesson learned that has been taken in to the Dundalk job it is possibly how fussy Kenny is on the character of a player as much as their ability.

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I really don't buy that, if he had similar plans for rovers with regards to S&C why wasn't Byrne or someone similar hired then? It's not like he came in mid season and didn't get to set up his squad and staff how he wanted he had plenty of time to do that.
At the end of the day during Kenny's reign at Rovers recruitment was nothing short of a disgrace and the football was awful to watch (only time I've ever thought about giving a game a miss it was that bad) the blame for both of these things ultimately belongs at the feet of the manager and Kenny paid the price for that.

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Originally Posted by RathfarnhamHoop

First off Bazunu has been at the club pretty much since he started playing football so wasn't "outstanding at other schoolboy clubs" before he joined Rovers, also he started as a midfielder and moved in goals while at Rovers so you're talking out your arse there.

.

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Bazuna went to Rovers from Leicester Celtic

A Rathfarnham man like yourself should have known that ;-)

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Originally Posted by PartySaint

Bazuna went to Rovers from Leicester Celtic

A Rathfarnham man like yourself should have known that ;-)

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Guess who he joined Leicester Celtic from.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Guess who he joined Leicester Celtic from.

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His under 8s Rovers team that split up

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Originally Posted by vinnie

We could all take lessons from Bohs on how to sell three halves of things in fairness

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Or pay off at 4% like shams (to be fair)

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Originally Posted by RathfarnhamHoop

First off Bazunu has been at the club pretty much since he started playing football so wasn't "outstanding at other schoolboy clubs" before he joined Rovers, also he started as a midfielder and moved in goals while at Rovers so you're talking out your arse there.

Secondly the fact players were at other clubs before Rovers doesn't mean Rovers didn't develop them. Development doesn't work as a onece off event its a continuous process. You could take all the best schoolboy players and put them in a team and not develop them and they'd do great for a few years then be surpassed by others, that's not what Rovers are doing.

Thirdly a too good to refuse offer by definition has to have players sold as the performance indicators as that's literally the definition of the term, if they weren't sold the offer wouldn't have been too good to refuse now would it.

Finally out bidding nothing new or innovative but having a clear pathway to professional football with full-time coaches, top class facilities and allowing education and professional football at youth level, yes that is something that's new in Ireland and everyone associated with the league with a bit of sense will say as such.

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Funny, according to his previous manager he played in goal - but like most keepers always wanted to play out field (often for last 10 minutes of matches). check your facts before calling out others (or just carry on talking out your arse).

For years / decades clubs (Home Farm, UCD etc. ) provided pathways for young players to develop to LOI and beyond, the difference was they don't talk through their ass about 'projects'. only the self grandiose hoops think sticking a title on it makes it new or innovative. Every club seeks to develop its own players irrespective of age or resale value. What else would they do ? surely even you can get that ?