Jon Walters

He missed a game this summer to go to a teammates wedding. I criticised Glenn Whelan for the same reason. I also remember him missing at least two squad gatherings (for friendlies) within the first year and a half of his first selection for Ireland - when he was featuring in every game for Stoke. I also recollect Marc Wilson & Keith Treacy missing squads and getting pulled up on it. Wilson & Treacy were subsequently left out of squads while Walters continued to be selected.

I merely said he missed more than squad after Danny's pious response to me. I didn't say anything about Walters' character but I'm sure Danny piously responded with a couple of comments and a combined 8 paragraphs full of waffle about how I am wrong and he is right. Yes?

http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/Stoke...ail/story.html

Walters best 10 goals according to The Stoke Sentinel in celebration of his 100th league goal.

I don't remember him missing any friendly, have you evidence of these?

Also, as you are well aware, we have a rule about attacking a post, not the poster

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

I merely said he missed more than squad after Danny's pious response to me. I didn't say anything about Walters' character but I'm sure Danny piously responded with a couple of comments and a combined 8 paragraphs full of waffle about how I am wrong and he is right. Yes?

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No.

If you think my motive has been piety and proving myself right when I've engaged with you, I'm afraid you misunderstand me completely. It's a rich accusation coming from someone as sanctimonious and judgmental as yourself who is always keen to impress upon us how future uncertain events will surely turn out. Anyhow, you're keeping your audience waiting; are you going to fulfill tets' request for evidence of these alleged multiple missed friendlies under debatable circumstances or were you hoping this thread would quietly sink away out of sight?

I was actually not commenting because I don't want every thread to be derailed by our arguments, and furthermore, I have been warned as to my conduct so I am, understandably, kind of cagey and tactile when it comes to when and how I respond.

Walters missed a run of approximately 6 or 7 games beginning with Uruguay in March 2011 and ending with Croatia in August 2011 while he was starting and finishing every game with Stoke City. After Trapattoni's admonishment, he became more of a fixture in friendly games and began to feature more regularly in competitive games. More recently, he has missed a few friendlies here and there; or perhaps being rested. Yes some of these have been pretty debatable, especially if you are going to lavish someone with praise for always turning up.

It's you who made insinuations about me making insinuations about Walters. I never said anything about his character. I simply said he missed squads in debatable circumstances, which they were at the time, and that he has missed more than one squad gathering.

I didn't say anything particularly incendiary; certainly not incendiary enough to warrant such a passionate rebuttal.

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

I was actually not commenting because I don't want every thread to be derailed by our arguments, and furthermore, I have been warned as to my conduct so I am, understandably, kind of cagey and tactile when it comes to when and how I respond.

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Erm, it wasn't our argument. Olé Olé (and a few others) took issue with your comment and tets, as moderator, had requested you provide evidence to support your claim. I agreed and urged you to present the evidence as requested, but it isn't solely our argument.

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Walters missed a run of approximately 6 or 7 games beginning with Uruguay in March 2011 and ending with Croatia in August 2011 while he was starting and finishing every game with Stoke City. After Trapattoni's admonishment, he became more of a fixture in friendly games and began to feature more regularly in competitive games.

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Am in work at the minute, but I'll have a look into the games you say he missed later when I've a bit of time. Did he pull out of these squads due to injury? Was he definitely even selected six or seven times before dropping out? What were the reasons given?

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More recently, he has missed a few friendlies here and there; or perhaps being rested. Yes some of these have been pretty debatable, especially if you are going to lavish someone with praise for always turning up.

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So he missed them under debatable circumstances or because he was being rested by the manager? Are you saying you don't actually know then? It's either/or and is an important distinction, being the crux of the issue here.

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It's you who made insinuations about me making insinuations about Walters. I never said anything about his character. I simply said he missed squads in debatable circumstances, which they were at the time, and that he has missed more than one squad gathering.

I didn't say anything particularly incendiary; certainly not incendiary enough to warrant such a passionate rebuttal.

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I don't know where you think I accused you of condemning Walters' character. Did I even offer a passionate rebuttal? Go back and have a look; I think you're confusing me with Olé Olé? (For what it's worth though, I think you're engaging in silly semantics again; to accuse someone of missing games under debatable circumstances would surely constitute a questioning of their commitment and, ergo, some aspect of their character, no?)

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

Am in work at the minute, but I'll have a look into the games you say he missed later when I've a bit of time. Did he pull out of these squads due to injury? Was he definitely even selected six or seven times before dropping out? What were the reasons given?

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Macedonia and Uruguay: Pulled out because his wife was giving birth. She had complications with their first child, intestines outside the body, so the FAI gave him special dispensation.
Northern Ireland, Scotland, Macedonia, Italy: Pulled out with a should injury. Bit of confusion at the time
Croatia: Pulled out injured.
Slovakia and Russia: Wasn't named in the squad after missing the previous 5 games

He's since missed a Greece friendly 2012 and Germany Kazakhstan 2013

These were during is run of a hundred and something consecutive premier league starts. I don't think there's anything really wrong in what TOWK said. But he can't complain either. He said 'debatable circumstances' and that's exactly what he got.

He also withdrew from squads for the Oman friendly in 2012, the Spain match in America and, as I already mentioned, the games he (and Whelan) missed to attend a teammates wedding.

Without saying anything about his character, it is debatable to say that he "always turns up". He never misses competitive games for club and country, yes, but he has missed a significant amount of friendly games considering his remarkable run of starts for Stoke.

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

He also withdrew from squads for the Oman friendly in 2012, the Spain match in America and, as I already mentioned, the games he (and Whelan) missed to attend a teammates wedding.

Without saying anything about his character, it is debatable to say that he "always turns up". He never misses competitive games for club and country, yes, but he has missed a significant amount of friendly games considering his remarkable run of starts for Stoke.

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Yes, I left out the Oman and Spain games because he played in a game for Ireland a few days before those games and like a lot of other players was excused. Didn't seem worth mentioning.

Cheers for that info, Joe. Just to look a little closer...

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Originally Posted by joe_denilson

Macedonia and Uruguay: Pulled out because his wife was giving birth. She had complications with their first child, intestines outside the body, so the FAI gave him special dispensation.

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Difficult to find fault with him here. I would think... The FAI were clearly sympathetic too. Is this a "debatable circumstance"?

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Northern Ireland, Scotland, Macedonia, Italy: Pulled out with a should injury. Bit of confusion at the time

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According to Pulis, Walters was prepared to travel over and have the shoulder examined but was told not to by the FAI doctor:

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Originally Posted by Tony Pulis

Jon picked up a shoulder injury against Wigan last Sunday. So he rang the Irish doctor to tell him. He said he was willing to go over to Ireland to have it tested there, but the doctor got back to him to say not to bother coming over. So I know for a fact Jon is covered and he had got permission. He is clearly keen to play for them and wouldn’t do anything to put that in danger.

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Was Trap referring to Walters' willingness to travel then in this pre-Croatia game article?: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...#ixzz3M6Y8aBYW

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Originally Posted by Giovanni Trapattoni

If the player says he wishes to stay at home, he can stay at home. For example, Walters said he wished to come to us to make a check, but I said 'no stay at home'.

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He can't have been referring to his Croatia withdrawal as the article clearly states he was with the FAI pre-Croatia friendly and returned to his club the day before the game. I don't understand why the FAI would have told him not to travel for assessment if he was willing to do so.

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Croatia: Pulled out injured.

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As already mentioned, the earlier Daily Mail article indicates he pulled out with Marc Wilson after both were "briefly with the Irish squad to have their injuries assessed by the Irish team medical team".

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Slovakia and Russia: Wasn't named in the squad after missing the previous 5 games

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He can't turn up if not selected, obviously.

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He's since missed a Greece friendly 2012 and Germany Kazakhstan 2013

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In relation to the declared knee injury that caused him to miss the Greece game, the FAI stated that he'd be returning to his club for treatment, so that would indicate that he was at the very least with the FAI before the game and would surely have been examined by the doctor? The second article indicates he was ruled out of the Germany and Kazakhstan games after a medical examination, so I assume it was also the FAI doctor who oversaw that?

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These were during is run of a hundred and something consecutive premier league starts. I don't think there's anything really wrong in what TOWK said. But he can't complain either. He said 'debatable circumstances' and that's exactly what he got.

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Aye, but it's also about what he didn't say; what he alluded to. :p

It's like the boy who cried wolf; I just can't trust his posts without first seeing some supporting evidence to back up his often suspect and exaggerated claims.

Is SvD's post from 2011 relevant here or, more importantly, correct?: http://foot.ie/threads/152510-Should...=1#post1517628

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Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton

[I]t was well recorded he carrying a lot of niggling injuries towards the end of the season. But was Stoke's cup run and smallish squad, he was pushed into service.

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I have no reason to doubt it. SvD's always a very reliable poster.

Of which of those withdrawals are you still suspicious/doubtful, TOWK?

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

He also withdrew from squads for the Oman friendly in 2012, the Spain match in America

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Is being officially discharged along with other senior or more established players in order to allow the management a chance to look at more peripheral options really the same as withdrawing under debatable circumstances?

Norwich apparently tabled a bid.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2015/...n-for-walters/

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Originally Posted by BonnieShels

Norwich apparently tabled a bid.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2015/...n-for-walters/

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Pretty poor offer IMO


2 walters threads so it seems
http://foot.ie/threads/141126-Jon-Walters

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Originally Posted by back of the net

Pretty poor offer IMO


2 walters threads so it seems
http://foot.ie/threads/141126-Jon-Walters

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Tough one. He'll be 32 next month. 32 is old.

That said, he played 32 PL games last season and hasn't had many injuries since he joined Stoke.

The bid is reflective of the fact that he'll have no resale value. But, at £1.5m, Norwich would be getting themselves a pretty experienced campaigner and a player in fantastic physical shape. The shifts he put in for Ireland against Scotland and Germany (among many others) recently demonstrate that conditioning and his strength is fairly clear also. His physical shape and (presumable) desire to extend his PL career negate the age and resale factors quite considerably.

The bid for Wes Hoolahan in January 2014 was in the same ballpark (even less at £1m, perhaps). Hoolahan was pretty much the exact same age Walters is now (31 going on 32).

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Originally Posted by Olé Olé

Tough one. He'll be 32 next month. 32 is old.

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He was born the same day as me :(

Could be worse, you could share a date of birth with Roger Federer. Strangely enough, he seems to be past his prime as I'm just approaching mine.

The thing about Walters that I like, is for a "big" fellow, he is excellent at short slide-rule balls around the back of defence, and his crossing is as good in the premier league as anyone. Problem is that normally he's the guy you'd like on the end of them.

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Originally Posted by joe_denilson

He was born the same day as me :(

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And another of us caves. So that's you, SkStu and Stutts now that I can safely say I'm younger than. (You barely)

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Originally Posted by Olé Olé

Tough one. He'll be 32 next month. 32 is old.

That said, he played 32 PL games last season and hasn't had many injuries since he joined Stoke.

The bid is reflective of the fact that he'll have no resale value. But, at £1.5m, Norwich would be getting themselves a pretty experienced campaigner and a player in fantastic physical shape. The shifts he put in for Ireland against Scotland and Germany (among many others) recently demonstrate that conditioning and his strength is fairly clear also. His physical shape and (presumable) desire to extend his PL career negate the age and resale factors quite considerably.

The bid for Wes Hoolahan in January 2014 was in the same ballpark (even less at £1m, perhaps). Hoolahan was pretty much the exact same age Walters is now (31 going on 32).

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Knew he was 31 -didn't realise he was so close to 32

All your other points are fair and also points which I didn't even consider

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Originally Posted by joe_denilson

He was born the same day as me :(

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Why the sad face? You should be honoured that you share the same bday as Walters, you lucky chap ...........my current favourite Ireland player is Jon

Locking this thread, the other Jon Walters thread - http://foot.ie/threads/141126-Jon-Walters - is now the official one, for no reason other than it has more pages