Kevin Foley

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30/05/2012, 1:13 PM
Stuttgart88

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfie

FFS.

Kevin Foley on Joe Duffy.

Joe is orchestrating a campaign to get Kevin re-instated.

You're not serious? Had Duffy ever even heard of Foley up until now?

Bandwagon alert.
30/05/2012, 1:14 PM
paul_oshea

Stutts I never said when it was, I just said he felt he got the decision wrong, whether or not that was last week or earlier, I didn't say when.

He was aware from the very start when the players met up about who was injured and who wasn't. Why not have called up McShane then anyway? He initially was saying things like it was good to have an extra defender around for training and other things, but as soon as McShane arrived he goes straight in even though Foley says he is ok to train and play?! It stinks stutts, something stinks :)
30/05/2012, 1:19 PM
SwanVsDalton

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

but as soon as McShane arrived he goes straight in even though Foley says he is ok to train and play?! It stinks stutts, something stinks :)

Was that the case? Didn't Foley say he could've trained if he felt he needed to but was told to take it easy?

That was my reading. If so he could be saying that as someone who would've done anything to make the squad - he may have wanted to train and play, but that doesn't mean he was actually was fit to.
30/05/2012, 1:21 PM
Wolfie

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton

Really? What's Foley saying?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

You're not serious? Had Duffy ever even heard of Foley up until now?

Bandwagon alert.

Sorry lads - couldn't resist it. I'm joking.

I'd just hate this side issue to overwhelm the whole lead up to the tournament.
30/05/2012, 1:23 PM
SwanVsDalton

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfie

Sorry lads - couldn't resist it. I'm joking.

I'd just hate this side issue to overwhelm the whole lead up to the tournament.

After 2002, nothing is too unbelievable...
30/05/2012, 1:33 PM
Stuttgart88

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Stutts I never said when it was

Oh yes you did :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

He knew he had players who were injured before he named his 23 man squad,

The things that have changed since the squad was announced - O'Shea's injury and more importantly, its persistence. This is the key. SSL and DO'D seem less of a factor but maybe we know less than has been let on. I doubt it though.

Another factor is Fahey's injury. This has led to Green's call up. I'm not sure I'm going to make this point lucidly but I'll try. If Fahey was taken but in the knowledge that he could break down, Foley could be seen as a more versatile cover option because he has uses elsewhere. However, with Fahey definitely out, Green gets called up asa direct replacement (at least in positional terms). I don't care what people say but I think Green versus Foley as a midfielder is a marginal debate at worst and most likely Green gets my nod.

I think the key thing to read into all of all of this is that O'Shea is a major cause for concern.

Foley has every right to be gutted but things have changed since 2 weeks ago. I just don't buy into Trap secretly wanting McShane there over Foley all along. McShane has been out of our squad for some time now, to Foley's benefit.
30/05/2012, 1:37 PM
paul_oshea

I never said when he changed his mind/felt he made the wrong selection though, I said he knew of the players who were injured, but not when he changed his mind, there is a difference. You did however point out correctly that O'shea was injured after he named the squad - which I can't remember just that he said he shouldn't have played against Sunderland, which was the last game.

Wolfie no need to worry, this will all be forgotten about within a week. He is too low key for people to care (ENOUGH - key) about it.
30/05/2012, 1:41 PM
Irwin3

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton

Well done for missing my point. Your 100 per cent guarantee is worthless and irrelevant - Kelly was Fulham's regular right back when there were other options over than a crocked 32-year-old and when the team was playing well. It deserves credit.

For goodness sake. Although you're still missing the point, let's clear this up because your arrogant accusation of lack of knowledge is a real downer on my lunch hour.

Foley made four squad appearances, not a single start before injuring himself badly at the start of the season.

After recovering in January, he started 11 games, was a used sub in 3, an unused sub in two and not in the squad four time. He was dropped twice.

Towards the end of the 2011 season he was also dropped twice by McCarthy, while making nine starts, three sub appearances and one as an unused sub.

Now - before you get all tetchy and start down some road to irrelevancy ("He played most of the games!" or "He fought his way back from injury!") let me make something clear.

I think Foley is a very good right back, who would be on my plane to Poland and would be in possession of more than eight caps if only the FAI had of taken my Football Manager based CV more seriously.

However I only mentioned Foley's appearance record to make a point about Kelly - that injuries, form and manager pressure can combine to push a player down a pecking order. And if the player is to return to the side, as Foley and Kelly have, after being dropped, then fair play to them.

Taking an argument for one and then refusing to apply it to another is the height of...well, bias, funny enough. Cheers for bringing it up.

Probably best to get back on to the situation at hand...

Look. I don't know why you are determined to go into this Kelly vs. Foley argument again. It's been done.

The arguments for both players are completely different from last season. Foley had an injury ravaged season and missed games through injury/fitness. Kelly played his most games in a season for years because the first-choice right back got injured.

When Foley wasn't in the Wolves squad it was because he was injured/rested. You claiming otherwise is nonsense. He started the season carrying an injury.

Your allusions to him being dropped are strange. Every player is rotated/rested.

As I said in my first post I feel that Foley had been unlucky to play so seldomly for us in the past 4 years and now he is extremely unfortunate that this recent event has transpired.
30/05/2012, 1:52 PM
SwanVsDalton

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irwin3

Look. I don't know why you are determined to go into this Kelly vs. Foley argument again. It's been done.

I'm not starting an argument about their merits, I just think your comments about Kelly have been harsh, even a little baffling. I haven't said anything negative about Foley other than 'dropped' (which, given Wolves have been in relegation dogfights when he was left out, is a fair description IMO).

I think both players have similar attributes, have been in similar situations (re club form) and have credited both accordingly.

I just don't agree with assessments of players based on speculation (a what if injury, a possible signing etc). Kelly getting an opportunity may be down to an injury, but him staying there is not. Your argument is akin to saying Fulham had no choice but to play him, but Fulham have more than two right backs and even had a transfer window to sign one.

I agree Foley's had a very unfortunate Ireland career to date.

That's me done.
30/05/2012, 1:57 PM
Irwin3

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton

I'm not starting an argument about their merits, I just think your comments about Kelly have been harsh, even a little baffling. I haven't said anything negative about Foley other than 'dropped' (which, given Wolves have been in relegation dogfights both seasons, is a fair description IMO).

I think both players have similar attributes, have been in similar situations (re club form) and have credited both accordingly.

I just don't agree with assessments of players based on something that hasn't happened (a what if injury, a possible signing etc). Kelly getting an opportunity may be down to an injury, but him staying there is not. Your argument is akin to saying Fulham had no choice but to play him, but Fulham have more than two right backs and even had a transfer window to sign one.

I agree Foley's had a very unfortunate Ireland career to date.

That's me done.

The thing is that I haven't mentioned anything about Kelly's form from last season. I agree that from what I saw and read, that he did a steady enough job when called upon.

My mentioning of Kelly and McShane in my first post was to do with the long-term trend and Foley's lack of a chance over the last 4 years. I was only stating the fact that Kelly has been a squad player / backup for Fulham/others during this time.

Every squad has 25 senior players. Enough for roughly two in each position. While Hughes and Baird have played RB that is their backup position. Kelly is an out and out RB so if he hadn't have stepped up then I would have been very worried for him.
30/05/2012, 2:32 PM
Zizou

Feel for the guy. It's astonishing that Paul 'The worst Irish international of all time ever in the history of the universe' Mc Shane could take anybodies place. (At least thats what I think his middle name is)
30/05/2012, 2:57 PM
jbyrne

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zizou

It's astonishing that Paul 'The worst Irish international of all time ever in the history of the universe' Mc Shane could take anybodies place. (At least thats what I think his middle name is)

back this up if you would please
30/05/2012, 3:06 PM
SwanVsDalton

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zizou

Feel for the guy. It's astonishing that Paul 'The worst Irish international of all time ever in the history of the universe' Mc Shane could take anybodies place. (At least thats what I think his middle name is)

Think you got mixed up there, surname is 'Butler'.
30/05/2012, 3:06 PM
Zizou

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbyrne

back this up if you would please

Go to youtube. Type in Paul Mc Shane 'The God of this era'... Even cheesy Eurovision type music to accompany it.. Enjoy..
30/05/2012, 3:13 PM
MeathDrog

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zizou

Go to youtube. Type in Paul Mc Shane 'The God of this era'... Even cheesy Eurovision type music to accompany it.. Enjoy..

A youtube video. What a retort.

You could at least have the courtesy to put up the link yourself.
30/05/2012, 3:15 PM
Zizou

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeathDrog

A youtube video. What a retort.

You could at least have the courtesy to put up the link yourself.

Good isn't it? ;)
30/05/2012, 3:16 PM
MeathDrog

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zizou

Good isn't it? ;)

Not gonna watch it.
30/05/2012, 3:17 PM
The Legend

i can't seriously believe anyone is defending McShane as a footballer... guaranteed to cost us if he gets on the field at any point.
30/05/2012, 3:23 PM
jbyrne

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Legend

i can't seriously believe anyone is defending McShane as a footballer... guaranteed to cost us if he gets on the field at any point.

again, back this statement up please.

first it was ian harte, then Kilbane and now mcshane. theres always one player picked out for ridicule from our squad. mcshane played well, yes well, last saturday. he has rarely let us down if you look beyond the tabloid type fans views on him
30/05/2012, 3:31 PM
SwanVsDalton

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbyrne

again, back this statement up please.

first it was ian harte, then Kilbane and now mcshane. theres always one player picked out for ridicule from our squad. mcshane played well, yes well, last saturday. he has rarely let us down if you look beyond the tabloid type fans views on him

In fairness there's a lot of truth in that. McShane did precious little wrong on Saturday but in work on Monday morning a colleague who watched it on telly started banging on about how terrible he was.

I asked him what he found 'terrible' and he said: "Everything! It's McShane sure he's shocking." There's an assumption the guy's gash, even when he plays decent.

When people put players in that box, it's very difficult for them to get out.

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