Hang on, what's all this about results all of a sudden? Sure it was only a few posts ago you were telling us that they didn't matter?!
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Hang on, what's all this about results all of a sudden? Sure it was only a few posts ago you were telling us that they didn't matter?!
The argument that there are no other options, no scale of any sort, that it's a simple binary of either Kenny or hoofball is nonsense.
I dont think there's many people at all on here who desire a return to hoofball.
I'd guess the clear majority of people that want Kenny gone want him to be replaced by somebody better equipped to continue what he has been trying to do (but unfortunately not succeeding).
It's a tale of 2 groups. In one Kenny aimed to come top and came near the bottom. In the other, Kenny had already finished near the bottom and tried to pass the blame off onto the players. The bottom line is the awful results and coming near the bottom of every group we've been in under Kenny. Your wins against Malta and Armenia spin has been nonsensed previously, as has your hoofball talk.Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
Now you're describing the rare wins we get as "your" wins, rather than "our" wins that they are. If you don't like the fact we won them, that's up to you, but we still won them.
McCarthy won 3 games against Georgia and Gibraltar. He finished the campaign with 1 win in 6 competitive games. And you tell me he would have got us to the Euros?
He wouldn't get the time. There's a referendum on the Ireland manager after literally every single game, regardless of result. If we win, the performance means he has to go. If we don't win, then he really has to go. This has been the case long before Kenny got the job.Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
Name me one manager who will be given the time and the patience to do Kenny's job, but do it better than him, on a similar salary? No, they'll demand he either qualifies for the next tournament, or he gets fired.
Where is the long term vision of where we want to be and how we want to get there, in 5-10-15-20 years time? The team's that over achieved at recent international tournaments, did so because they went down the Kenny route of sacrificing results and qualifications, while they put the necessary structures in place to bring through new players, and bring them up to a team capable of competing at the highest level. It is a painfully slow transition but it has to be done, and eventually they were rewarded. Iceland, Finland, Macedonia, Albania, Belgium to name a few in Europe. That's the model we should be looking towards, not what we do atm, either qualify or the sack, paying out unsustainable sums that the FAI can't afford.
According to Great Greta Thunberg and the like there is no point making 10 /15 / 20 year plans ! !Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
Maybe that's why football managers don't get much time these days !
We've overachieved at recent international tournaments?
We've won one game in 20 years, and that was against a B side who weren't all that pushed. Our only other non-defeat in all that time - indeed, the only other game we were even vaguely competitive in - was a 1-1 draw against a Sweden side who didn't manage a shot on target in the entire game.
In fairness we also lead against a full strength French team in their own Euros for almost an hour and lost by a goal in the end. I'd say that counts as vaguely competitive at a minimum.
We were absolutely battered in that game. We fought hard and I'd take a similar performance/result this month, but once France got going (after realising they had no need for a defensive mid), we barely got a touch of the ball.
Clearly I was referring to your spin, I don't think you're involved with the Irish squad.Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
McCarthy's record was played 10, won 5, drew 4 and lost 1. And that included playing against two of the top teams in Europe home and away. And as you say, his reign wasn't even great. So that shows just how bad Kenny's reign has been. Played 30, Won 8, drawn 11 and lost 11.
Just to show the stark difference between the record of the two, had McCarthy kept the same rate up, after 30 games it would have been won 15, drawn 12, lost 3.
So yes, I think McCarthy would have taken us to the Euros or if any reasonable manager had taken over. Not only that but we would have made a much better crack at qualifying for the World Cup and we wouldn't even be in a group with France and Holland.
Tets whats the top 5 Threads for views on foot.ie? I notice this one has 263,722 which says a lot about the activity on the forum recently.
Click where it says views and it will sort top to bottom.
And the most viewed player thread on the forum is......
James McCarthy. Didn't expect that!
Is he fit or just so far down the pecking order that he doesn’t even make benches anymore. Sad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
hamstring injuryQuote:
Originally Posted by third policeman
that's simply not true. we were well in that game until the hour mark. having had a few days less than france to recover from the previous round then told.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
our first half performance was excellent against the hosts and probably favorites for the tournament.
First half was decent, sure, but the game is 90 minutes. And when they brought Coman on for Kante at halftime, the second half was mostly one-way traffic. It certainly wasn't competitive. I think they had 80% possession in the second half or something like that.
you said we were "absolutely battered". we weren'tQuote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
We were though. Especially that entire second half was no contest.
25 shots v 6. 9 corners to 1. 80% possession in the second half once France had worked us out.
Everything except the scoreline was no contest; France were quite wasteful that day.
Yet we still could’ve easily gotten a second goal. Stats are fine but they don’t always tell the full story. We were well in that game for a long time.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
I think their first goal was an error from Duffy?
They could have a hatful if you want to take every chance as a possible goal. They hit the bar for starters, the nearest either side came to adding to the scoring.
Doesn't really matter if they scored from an error by Duffy; that's what being under pressure will do.
The Guardian had a live blog of the game here - early in the second half of mentions a "rare Ireland attack", the equaliser had "been coming since the break really", Ireland "just can’t cope with the pressure", there's "only one side look like adding to the score at the moment, and it’s not Ireland"
We were leading for a long time. But we weren't in the game at all after the break. It was one-way traffic
Ah it was all over in 8 minutes. Between the first goal, the second goal and the red card. Something like between the 55th and 63rd minute - from then on playing 11 v 10 - we didn’t have a chance
It was - but even then the goal had been coming since half-time. And the red card was just them carving us open again; Duffy's choice was either take the hit or it was 3-1.
In fairness we were always going to have to concede a lot of possession in that game once we went ahead so early. If anything we might have scored too early. But again, we were leading for almost an hour and only lost by a goal to the hosts and eventual finalists, it was a creditable effort.
It was certainly creditable, and I'd settle for same again this time out.
I do think scoring early gave us something to hold on to though. Without that, and if France score say 20 minutes in then it's potentially a horribly different kettle of fish.
But I do think once France took stock at half-time and changed things around tactically - which is all part and parcel of the game - we have to acknowledge we weren't competitive. No shame at all in that when we were playing the ultimate runners-up (and the upcoming World Champions) in their own back yard. But true nonetheless I think.
Anyways, I'm happy to leave it at that if others are! :)
Lee Carsley to Greta Thunberg. If that's the shortlist for Kenny's job these days, I would be quite happy if he keeps it for another 20 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
Holland and France are two of the best teams in the world. Denmark and Switzerland have 1 international trophy between them. That's a considerable difference in the challenge in front of us.Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA
McCarthy had one job to do, get us into the Euros. And telling me he came close to qualifying isn't good enough to stay on, he didn't win any of his last 4 competitive games with his hoofball tactics, so he didn't get the job done. He wouldn't have beaten Portugal for a WC spot. Serbia did, but they're a better side than we are, and they benefitted from an outrageous injustice in their favour against Portugal at home, the kind of incident that will never happen again, thank god.
Aside from introducing a tonne of new players, overhauling the style of play, linking it all the way from grass roots to the senior side, retaining our League B status and winning the most points in it ever, he has got 19 results for us from 30 played, and won 3 of the last 6. That is not record breaking nor is it disasterous, it reflects where we stand and the direction we're trying to go in.
We have got drawn with Holland and France in part due to Kenny's miserable record. Denmark went on to the Euro semi finals, Switzerland the quarter finals after knocking out France. So McCarthy's record was decent in the face of that challenge. We deserved to qualify ahead of Denmark. We've gone from that to barely coming ahead of Luxembourg and Azerbaijan, I don't know why you're talking about Serbia and Portugal because we weren't competing with them and Kenny didn't think we could.Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
He tried to overhaul the style of play but he couldn't do it effectively so he had to get the Chelsea coach in to do it for him. He recently went back begging him to rejoin the set up. He has only come ahead of Bulgaria and Armenia in the nation's league, we've only ever been in 3 of them. And you're back using Malta as part of your spin. Your defence of Kenny is quite humorous but easily ripped apart.
Alistair Campbell would have trouble putting a better spin on Kenny's reign than you. I would argue that you are being very selective (some would say almost disingenuous) in many of your points. He has 8 wins in 30 games almost all against extremely poor quality opposition the likes of which we would have been expected to soundly beat in years gone by. In the same period he has lost games to Finland, Luxembourg and Norway at home, overseen our worst performance in a world cup qualification group since 1986 and has the poorest win record of any Ireland manager in the modern era, far lower than even the disaster that was Stan.Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
Just for clarification what exactly in your mind would qualify as a disaster?
Stephen Kenny losing his job.Quote:
Originally Posted by youngirish
James McClean wasted a superb opportunity to pick a square ball for a [Shane Long?] tap-in but he pulled it back to the pen spot instead. There was quite a bit of debate about it at the time but one camera angle showed just how easy a pass it was and just how poor it was that McClean didn't see it.Quote:
Originally Posted by elatedscum
No for our Waterford man murphy.
Interestingly the independent goes with the idea that we were on top for an hour.
"When Murphy brought a save from Lloris at full stretch in the midst of the first half, the Irish contingent sang: “We’re going to beat the French.” It was not to be. The Irish fans will always have the memory of that hour’s inconceivable supremacy against the French. It may just take them a while to appreciate the fact."
And then to elatedscums point:
"And then a series of circumstances collided. The heat of the afternoon sun. Ireland’s mere three days’ preparation time, against France’s full week. The technical superiority of the opposition. That side’s depth of tactical options. It was a perfect storm that Ireland could not contend with, allowing France to restore parity and finish their challengers off in the space of nine brutal minutes. By the end, Ireland were listing desperately and, you had to imagine, ready for it all to come to an end."
Was that the chance that Daryl Murphy had? He slid in for a low cross from McClean, but it went beyond himQuote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
McClean shot didn’t he as opposed to looking for Murphy who would have been hard to miss had James lifted his head iirc.
Yeah remember that one, i think McClean had a shot rather than pulling it back though? Either way it should have been a simple pass and tap in for Long. Think that was at 2-1 to France.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Murphy, that's it. Thanks.
had to go and have a look!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhJC4tOsRWs
at 7.20. McClean tries to pull it back to penalty spot for Long, Murphy was on for the tap in if he squared it.
Funny how the memory plays up I could have sworn the chance was to make it 0-2 and actually I thought it was a lot worse from McClean than it actually is. Still not great mind you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Exgrad
Wrong all round!
On 5 mins we had a good chance where McClean crossed into danger area and Murphy almost got a toe to it.
France's second goal was Duffy's fault. Got drawn towards the ball and caught in no-man's land, leaving Griezmann totally open to score.
They had been all over us for about 15-20 mins at that stage
6 or 7 unnecessary posts where I'd already said it was Murphy.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Sean McLoughlin won Hull a city POTM. Does he even have his own thread on here?
It shows how decent our strength in depth at CB is that someone who has by all accounts had a very good season for Hull including a POTM award, isn't even in the conversation for squad consideration. When you think of it in those terms, and looking at Darragh Lenihan who has constantly been good at that level, I do wonder when I hear Duffy being discussed as a possible option to start, when in reality he's lucky to be in the conversation for a squad place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82