Know when to stop.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
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Know when to stop.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Lifted from OWC. Paul Rowan is on the wrong track altogether, here.
Quote:
Goal poachers
Northern Irish football chiefs are crying foul as young stars switch allegiance to the republic. Are the players simply seeking a bigger stage – or is there a deeper issue
Paul Rowan Published: 4 February 2012
Recommend (0) Comment (0)PrintFollow News O’Kane represented Northern Ireland at every age level, but has turned his back on the side
T he name Eunan O’Kane will strike a chord with only the most dedicated Irish football fan. His story, though, is becoming increasingly familiar. He is one of the growing legion of footballers to switch allegiance from Northern Ireland to play for the Republic of Ireland.
Like many of the other northerners to turn their back on the country where they played under-age football, O’Kane, from Feeny in Derry, is a Catholic. His decision, as well as those of other Catholics of his generation, is not only threatening to sour relations between the island’s two football associations and rival fans, it is also likely to turn the Northern Ireland team into a Catholic-free outfit.
Currently plying his trade at Torquay United, following a spell with Everton, O’Kane represented Northern Ireland at every age level, up to under-21 level, but turned his back on the team last July and declared for the republic.
“I was given the option that if I was interested in playing for the republic then there were opportunities to do that,” he said. “People got in touch with me who had been speaking to Noel King, the [Republic of Ireland] under-21 manager, and he had asked questions about me and they then relayed that back to me.
“They made it clear he was interested in speaking to me if I was interested in speaking to him, and it has gone from there. We spoke on the phone and we then met up.”
So who were these intermediaries?
“I don’t want to say that,” says O’Kane. “I don’t want to get people into trouble. They don’t want anything to do with it and if I was them I wouldn’t want anything to do with it either.”
Shadowy intermediaries, secret meetings, agents, political posturing and a paper trail leading to Zurich may sound like a reworking of Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy. These are the elements, however, that make up the increasingly bitter fight between the two football associations as they wrangle over the best young footballing talent on the island.
The Irish Football Association (IFA) in Belfast is crying foul over the increasingly predatory tendencies of the Football Association of Ireland (FAI) towards some of the best players born in the north. At the same time, it is being forced to ask itself awkward questions about why a growing number of Catholics no longer want to play for Northern Ireland.
“We are a small nation and the republic has twice as many people and twice as many resources financially,” said Gerry Armstrong, a former Northern Ireland player who has been hired by the IFA to stop the drain of talent to its more glamorous and successful neighbour. “They are tapping up our players and it is a kick in the teeth for us.”
A quick look at the Premier League in England makes clear the scale of Armstrong’s task. An Everton side that faced Blackburn Rovers at Goodison Park last month featured two players born in the north who have “defected” to the south; Darron Gibson and Shane Duffy. Both would be shoo-ins for Northern Ireland who, as it stands, can claim only four Premier League players of their own.
Gibson’s declaration for the republic in 2006 signalled the start of the tug-of-war between the two associations, one which eventually ended up in the international sports courts and is now being fought with renewed vigour in Ireland.
Right...
I can't take any more of this Catholic being synonymous with Nationalist crap. FFS.
Secondly, we need to eradicate the term "switching allegiance" in this context.
Any player born in Derry, Antrim, Armagh, Tyrone, Down or Fermanagh who wishes to play for the FAI's representative team has that allegiance and that allegiance alone. Otherwise they would play with the IFA's team!
More of the usual ill-informed nonsense from Ferguson in today's Sunday life.
"FIFA should remember it was their President Sepp Blatter who started the political row by using the Good Friday Agreement to allow players born in Northern Ireland who hold an Irish passport to represent the Republic" :tongue:
I agree whoeheartedly with you viz a viz the "Catholic" thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
I think you need to understand that those players who have represented The IFA before going to the FAI, have, in fact, "switched allegiance". There's nothing sinister in that description.
Ha ha. At the Bl*tter reference!
But the point is, no matter how 'unreasonable' it might seem to the IFA or any other national association (or their fans) for that matter, FIFA have deemed it otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
As in has been repeated umpteen times before, they remain eligible until they've played in a full competitive game.
Personally I feel the system has been abused far more blatantly by various African and Arabian associations far more than anything the FAI could ever do...
Simply because there's far more ambiguity about who players are eligible for, clouded by residency qualification and past colonial ties.
And not intended as having a go at anyone in particular, merely using this quote to reiterate the point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
I know where you are coming from NB.
And I do understand that these lads have played for the IFA's team before; and I have pointed out in the past that I always felt that that was a matter of the convenience for them to do so than say for them to travel to Dublin etc to represent their actual national team.
A solution to this is easily sorted but clearly would not be accepted by the OWC heads.
But there seems to be this idea that the conniving FAI are forcing these poor wee boys to change their minds and therefore "allegiances" (in my interpretation of the word) to play for a pot of gold at the end of Trap's rainbow. It's wearing thin. Very thin.
The emotive terms of tug-of-war, poaching etc. don't allow you to assume that they are using allegiance in any other way than a trite statement of the fickleness of these wee boys and their desperate attitude to their "mother" country.
It will not surprise you that I am firmly in the "you won't be playing for Northern Ireland, solely as a matter of convenience" camp.Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
I want such players weeded out of our system, as far as possible.
What is the "easy" solution to which you refer?
Yes...we know all of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Is there any point in me reading back to catch up, or is it just page after page of the usual?
So why do people continually gurn on about it? They'd be better off lobbying the gnomes of Zurich than wasting time moaning to people who aren't especially interested. Especially given our own experience of that same organization...Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
Quote:
Originally Posted by awec
There's been some good schtick of late. Depends on where you left us. Where the hell did ya disappear to?
I probably should qualify my usage of the word "easily" and substitute it with a meaning of "obviously". I once advocated the idea designated FAI training camps in say Derry, Newry and Belfast. This would have the desired effect of "weeding" out the wee traitors much earlier on in the process. Would the OWB approve?Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
WE could reciprocate with IFA camps in Bandon, Greystones and Rossnowlagh?
I'm not surprised by your stance at all. Especially as I knew that already. Also I would be of the same persuasion in that regard. However how the hell do you "weed" out a 8-9-10-11-12 year old?
A person's politics is not formed (generally) at such a young age. I take it for granted that the poor souls growing up on Sandy Row and Falls never had a chance. :) But seriously, That will only further ingrain the ridiculous sense of "us" and "them" that pervades society on this island.
You lot tried that before - the plantation system I believe it was called. Basically squatters came over and took our land. It didn't work then and won't work now. Individual choice at any age is allowable and understandable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
Just have them in places like Donegal and Dundalk.Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
Or, does the "dream" not extend a few miles?
Aged 18 and above will do me for weeding out.Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
Yes. We've decided to set up a joint diplomatic mission to locate 'Ealing Green...Quote:
Originally Posted by awec
:rolleyes:
You obviously do irony very well.Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
Except some organization called FIFA (& The CAS et al) disagree. Take it you've not heard of them...Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
Dear God.Quote:
Originally Posted by gastric
Sad lad.
I'm presuming you mean Lifford? Donegal is hardly convenient. :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
We could do that I suppose. I prefer my plan though for stoking the fires. :O
Ah AB, come on, read what went before. You knew what he meant.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Oh, I have.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
However, it's in the gift of the IFA to weed out those who play for them out of "convenience".
Follow your dream - ASAP.
Lifford is good too.Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
Donegal is closer to Derry than Belfast.
Why would "united" Irelanders want to "stoke the fires"?
With respect to NB and other aspiring gardeners I'll refer to post #2732 above. Somehow doubt FIFA will look kindly on revisiting the whole debate when they've already adjudicated on it, backed by the CAS, for the foreseeable future.
Or perhaps certain people also expect them to also rewrite the GFA also...
:rolleyes:
This is just hysterical and alarmist scaremongering.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Rowan
Anyway, must we assume the upkeep of good cross-community relations takes precedence over all else these days? Cross-community relations aren't necessarily the be all and the end all. I hope I'm not committing a grave faux pas. :rolleyes:
Some people will always be offended by something. It's not a player's/the FAI's duty to keep everyone in NI happy. These players prioritise the expression of their national identity over keeping NI fans/individuals from the other community happy; not that I'd advocate someone setting out to offend someone for no other sake, but this expression, of which causing offence might be a by-product or consequence, must be accepted as their discretion.
There's nothing underhand going on here. It's all within the rules and choice was ultimately still O'Kane's, as Noel King rightly points out. Naming these intermediaries might get them into "trouble" with disgruntled NI supporters, but they aren't doing anything wrong, as far as FIFA are concerned.Quote:
So who were these intermediaries?
“I don’t want to say that,” says O’Kane. “I don’t want to get people into trouble. They don’t want anything to do with it and if I was them I wouldn’t want anything to do with it either.”
Shadowy intermediaries, secret meetings, agents, political posturing and a paper trail leading to Zurich may sound like a reworking of Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy. These are the elements, however, that make up the increasingly bitter fight between the two football associations as they wrangle over the best young footballing talent on the island.
Good lord. Is this just accepted as fact now?Quote:
The Irish Football Association (IFA) in Belfast is crying foul over the increasingly predatory tendencies of the Football Association of Ireland (FAI) towards some of the best players born in the north.
Anyway, there's nothing "foul" going on.
Armstrong is one to talk about tapping up players. All of this is pretty much irrelevant, self-pitying twaddle anyway. Is the insinuation that FIFA should favour the IFA because they are a smaller/financially-weaker association than the FAI? Should they hand out favours and grant exceptions to other small associations too? Attempting to relate to this issue the relative "glamour" and "success" of the FAI is also to intentionally obfuscate matters. It implies these players are making mercenary decisions and conceals the reality that they merely seek to express (or better express) their national identity.Quote:
“We are a small nation and the republic has twice as many people and twice as many resources financially,” said Gerry Armstrong, a former Northern Ireland player who has been hired by the IFA to stop the drain of talent to its more glamorous and successful neighbour. “They are tapping up our players and it is a kick in the teeth for us.”
Fought with renewed vigour? By whom? Gary Mac and the AONISC? :bulgy:Quote:
Gibson’s declaration for the republic in 2006 signalled the start of the tug-of-war between the two associations, one which eventually ended up in the international sports courts and is now being fought with renewed vigour in Ireland.
C'mon, NB; be reasonable with the lads. Have you seen the Donegal pot-holes?!Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
I'm an Irelander. Nothing more nothing less. I was making such a comment in jest. Some on. Don't go all AB on me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
Hey, mine are mainly in jest too...
That ellipsis says otherwise...
:)
Sure, you're not familiar with 'The Wild Rover' then?
;)
Why would Robinson having attended a GAA match oblige Sinn Féin to support the IFA in the "FAI row"? Sinn Féin have a mandate to protect the interests of northern-born Irish nationals and the FAI happens to be the national association of a very significant minority of the population in NI.Quote:
Originally Posted by Predator
Besides, haven't the IFA given up rowing? Isn't the current official/public stance of the IFA one of acceptance of the right of players to switch under the current legal framework and an acknowledgement that the ball is entirely in their court with regard to somehow making their teams relevant to the nationalist community?
At least, erm, one of their fans think otherwise...Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
I'm quite curious as to who these "shadowy intermediaries" are - that Eunan seems frightened to talk about.
Where you thinking of anyone in particular?Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
I thought exactly the same when I read Ferguson's piece.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
The term you quote is that of Paul Rowan, who seems content to stir without actually knowing the facts. The intermediaries could have been friends or family contacting the FAI on his behalf. This idea of "shadowy intermediaries" is just outrageous. Rowan is feeding the paranoia of the likes of Sam Gamble and Gary McAllister.Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
The Sunday Times could be in receipt of a letter or two - Rowan's assertion is pure balls. Nothing more, nothing less.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
Indeed. I was warmed by Kinger's words on the matter. Another instance of the FAI conducting themselves impeccably throughout this farce.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
But of course! "You will not grind us down"Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
For greater clarity, it appears he's "frightened" for their sake rather than his own sake, in case anyone interpreted that as indicative of possible duress.Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
I suspect Rowan has mixed and matched different quote sources.
At least I wouldn't put it past him.
There is a BBC report based on an interview Eunan did with Radio Devon last Sept,
What I understand from it, is that he doesn't appear to have a positive world view of the IFA :)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/footbal...medium=twitter
"I just felt my opportunity wasn't going to come playing for Northern Ireland and the Republic have come and asked me to come and join them, so it's kind of a no-brainer to take the decision to the country that want you," O'Kane told BBC Radio Devon.
"I just want to play football and if the Republic are going to give me that chance then I'm prepared to take it."
O'Kane, who has won four caps for Northern Ireland Under-21s, would not disclose exactly what discussions he had had with the Irish FA about his decision.
"There's a lot of things that go on that not a lot of people know about," he added.
"I'm not going to come out and say what's really happened behind closed doors because that's nothing to do with anyone else"
It's possible the "shadowy intermediaries" are within IFA circles so to speak ......Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible