Martin O'Neill and Roy Keane

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Originally Posted by geysir

Other similar sized countries manage alright without having to pay a fortune to lure a manager, it's not the lack of lure that the irish job offers, that forces the FAI to pay out a fortune for a managerial team and one that just happens to manage average grade results.
If you're not bothered by the issue, then fine.

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Just to be clear, when I said it's not something that bothers me too much, I didn't mean it in an apathetic way. I just meant that, for me, it would be one of the lesser issues of how the association run the game here. I'd say fair play to them for managing to get Trap first, and then Martin O'Neill. Lower profile managers can be successful, of course, but I think they are giving us the best chance of success by going down the proven manager route, sadly it guarantees nothings.

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Originally Posted by geysir

What is the relevance between a club football managers' salary in the domestic league which is under the control of the FAI and the FAI's representative team's management´salary?
I supposed that the mere example of the glaring inequality of the Intl manager earning 30 times what a manager does in the LOI, says something about the state of Irish football. That's my opinion about what I perceive to be a glaring dysfunction in Irish football, but that's another debate.

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Excuse my ignorance, but aren't the LOI managers paid by their clubs? They're never likely to justify a big wage when most of the clubs struggle to get 3,000 at their games. I suppose it is dysfunctional but I'm not sure an FAI with the best will in the world would manage to close that gap, without the national team being the one that suffers. It is another debate though and, to be honest, I wouldn't be well up enough to contribute much to it.

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Originally Posted by geysir

This current discussion is about Roy and Cas seeing him without any clothes and although Cas has always seen Roy like this, he does have a point. Eg. Roy as a pundit was banal yet he was lauded as being 'left field' etc.

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Well I suppose it's only a matter of opinion whether Keane was a decent pundit or not. Personally I would agree with you that he didn't add to much in terms of analysing a match, but there aren't too many around that do. He probably jumped ahead of the majority by just saying what he thought, instead of trying to be politically correct and, to be fair, I don't think I heard anybody give him credit for anything more than that.

I agree with geysir in making the LOI manager comparison/connection, even if seemingly indirect. If the FAI were pumping the money into more sustainable models of progress that would aid long-term domestic development, I would happily put up with lower profile names in the managerial and assistant positions for a few years. Unfortunately, the future is rather bleak because the FAI don't appear to have the nous or foresight to look very far down the line. Competing associations are moving on and we have fewer and fewer players playing at the top level of English football by the season. Formerly, we relied on English academies to produce our talent but we can't piggyback any longer (due to the way the worldwide footballing market has changed and the EPL becoming a truly global behemoth), so we should be concentrating on ensuring a steady stream of talent internally that will have a greater chance of engineering better performances and long-term success. That in turn would generate greater public interest and increased revenue that could be pumped back into the self-sustaining model, thereby ensuring a follow-up generation of talent. It would be a more sustainable, stable and beneficial way of doing it rather than the short-termist throwing of everything at high-profile senior team managers and assistants. What happens when said managers and their assistants inevitably fail to deliver because they don't have the players coming through? Of course, the above would require a complete revamp of the game's structures in Ireland which is easier written about than done. I also acknowledge O'Brien's contributions, but I think it is generally accepted that the FAI devotes a disproportionate level of focus and investment to projects from which only the senior men's team will benefit.

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

I agree with geysir in making the LOI manager comparison/connection, even if seemingly indirect. If the FAI were pumping the money into more sustainable models of progress that would aid long-term domestic development, I would happily put up with lower profile names in the managerial and assistant positions for a few years.

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O'Neill is supposed to be on €1.2m pa and Keane €700k. Apparently O'Brien is paying roughly half? That leaves the FAI paying €950k pa for the two. What would be a reasonable wage for the manager and his assistant do ye feel? Just say they were paid half of these figures with the same arrangement in place with O'Brien, ignoring the likeliness of MON and Keane saying "thanks, but no thanks". That would free up 475k to put into the LOI.... is that a significant sum or peanuts?

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

O'Neill is supposed to be on €1.2m pa and Keane €700k. Apparently O'Brien is paying roughly half? That leaves the FAI paying €950k pa for the two. What would be a reasonable wage for the manager and his assistant do ye feel? Just say they were paid half of these figures with the same arrangement in place with O'Brien. That would free up 475k to put into the LOI.... is that a significant sum or peanuts?

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Very significant, I would think. It would be nearly five times the league-winning prize-money.

I'd be interested in seeing a list of salaries of managers and their assistants across UEFA, just by way of comparison. I'm not sure what a reasonable precise figure would be; I just don't think getting a big name in should be the priority because it's not a sustainable method of investment.

Yeah but I think it's generally accepted that the prize money for the league champions is peanuts, relatively speaking, and that's given to just one club. Obviously the 475k would have to be spread to benefit the entire league, or used for some worthwhile project. I don't have a huge opinion on this, just a general wondering. I'm sure I'd agree with ye entirely if I thought paying our management team less would be of huge benefit to the LOI, I'm just highly doubtful that it would. I understand that the whole structure needs a revamp though, an issue far greater than the price of securing MONKEANO.

I don't think their pay is that big an issue. I think the success of the senior national team is what has the potential to finance the FAI's spending on the game. This bigger issue is that this appears to be the only strategy and it's very much an eggs in one basket gamble which highlights the lack of a joined up plan for a sustainable development of the game.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I think the success of the senior national team is what has the potential to finance the FAI's spending on the game. This bigger issue is that this appears to be the only strategy and it's very much an eggs in one basket gamble which highlights the lack of a joined up plan for a sustainable development of the game.

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That's what I was getting at. Couldn't have said it better. I think the salaries are indicative of that one-dimensional focus.

Just for comparison purposes, Sweden's coach is on around €250,000, Norway's €450,000 and Denmark's about €650,000. Not exact figures but near enough.

Aye, and living costs are far higher there, well definitely the first two.

I don't think the comparisons with LOI managers are all that relevant.


I'd be more interested to know what other, similarly ranked teams pay their managers and what the duties are with and beyond the senior team, and what the goals and benchmarks are.

Fabio Capello hasn't been paid in over 5 months (at least in November that was the case). Reports of his salary have been (in sterling) from 6-8million, the real amount is probably just below 6.5million dollars.

Bilic was paid 1million euros a year, but made the same back in "tips".

What is important to differentiate between our pair and many other countries is what coaches make on the back end. Caps are valuable, they can raise the value and profile of a player, and his marketability. Add in "friendlies" and other bits and bobs, a base salary isn't the only thing to make a job attractive. If our pair are just getting paid straight, I'd be happy with that.

Anyway, their wages are almost immaterial, if you look at what Trap was getting. Not to mention a certain Chief Executive...

Plus DL makes a fair point about LOI managers liable to be on peanuts by comparison!!

If you pay peanuts you don't get MONKEAs

Lolz.

Some salaries of managers at the 2014 WC. Telegraph

Croatia
Niko Kovac
Salary: €205.000


Australia
Ange Postecoglou
Salary: €1.000.000


Holland
Louis van Gaal
Salary: €2.000.000


Greece
Fernando Santos
Salary: €650.000


France
Didier Deschamps
Salary: €1.635.000


Switzerland
Ottmar Hitzfeld
Salary: €2.834.000


Bosnia and Herzegovina
Safet Susic
Salary: €267.000


Portugal
Paulo Bento
Salary: €1.287.000


USA
Jurgen Klinsmann
Salary: €1.982.000


Belgium
Marc Wilmots
Salary: €654.000

Thanks WexCar, interesting reading. The win bonuses will bump up most of those salaries, but for some (Croatia and Bosnia for example), they earn tips that make it worth their while coaching. Bilic (when he signed with Loko) complained that he was not allowed to install "his" agent in the club, as it was already taken by the son-in-law of the President.

Roy writes a lad a note for school at book signing.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/left...-30815450.html

Roy's softened up since being in charge of Damien Delaney at Ipswich.

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/roy-ke...32587-Dec2014/

Keane leaves Villa after ****ing off the "big" names.

the comments on the article say it all, it's a reprint from the Daily Mail, there's no player named as the source of the statements, and Villa have repeatedly refuted any claim that there was a bust up between Keane and the players