So WBA are a good club or not then?
He was voted Wigan's 'player of the season' last year and has moved from the Championship back into the Premiership; the very opposite of nose-diving.Quote:
Originally Posted by GypsyBlackCat
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So WBA are a good club or not then?
He was voted Wigan's 'player of the season' last year and has moved from the Championship back into the Premiership; the very opposite of nose-diving.Quote:
Originally Posted by GypsyBlackCat
West Brom are a good club. We a good history and tradition. A lot of WBA fans were disappointed with the signing as they felt he is a Championship player and won't improve the team. I have to agree. I seen enough of him in his second season at Sunderland. He gets the ball and runs at the defender then loses it. He'll keep doing it and doing it. I'm sorry if it upsets you but I don't think he's a good player.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
True. It does look like terrible awkwardness. I was just wondering was there some other point behind it but perhaps it's just coincidental.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
Well, I mean he was out of sync with the direction everyone else had their bodies positioned towards. If you look at Baird and McGinn, they are facing the exact same direction as their teammates but bow their heads and it's a less pronounced gesture.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
It's very easy to infer a consensus among WBA fans here. He was obviously very good at a poor Wigan side last season and I think he deserves a chance to prove himself again. Obviously, you're a big Sunderland supporter and you have previously stated that you were completely unimpressed with the behaviour of McClean in the run-up to his exit from your club but it appears to me as though this clouds you views on McClean a bit too frequently.Quote:
Originally Posted by GypsyBlackCat
EDIT: Everyone can infer a consensus to back up their own views: http://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2015/07/20...t-richmond-ki/
It doesn't upset me. You just seemed to contradict yourself by calling WBA a good club before seemingly dismissing them in order to make the point that McClean is actually a poor player. Anyway, the vast majority of Wigan fans and at least one Premier League manager appears to disagree with your position with regard to his abilities. Make of that what you will.Quote:
Originally Posted by GypsyBlackCat
And I don't see reason to interpret what he did as an intended insult rooted in hate. I thought liberal democracy was alive and well but you want him sent off for correction for thoughtcrime. Crikey.
That's true, but in Baird/McGinn's situation, the whole team remained facing forward anyway in what I suppose you could call the default position as they either weren't facing a flag or it was in front of them. Had there been a flag to the side, the rest of the team might well have turned that way with Baird/McGinn remaining facing forward and out of sync. Who's to know? Nevertheless, I see the two situations as pretty similar in the sense all parties are opting out of observance/deference. As SvD alluded to earlier, all three parties are acting from the exact same tradition or school of thought, if you could call it that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Olé Olé
Do you also read the Daily Mail?Quote:
Originally Posted by GypsyBlackCat
Any photo/footage of the Derry City player at the FAI Cup final?
Good clubs and good managers sign bad players even Ferguson done it. Tony Pulis is in a better position to judge than me. But I'm sorry I don't rate him as a player. His an average Championship player IMO. And I haven't dismissed WBA as a club, if you read what I said, I pointed out that Sunderland Wigan and WBA offered him deals not the likes of Man Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
Secondly, I never said it was rooted in hate. It was childish and insulting towards his club and the country were he earns his trade. If wants to keep all that bitterness about the past and towards Britain that's fine because it's only harming himself. But maybe if he educated himself he'd see the big picture and it would benefit him.
What did I say was wrong?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfman
A local writes:
Albion fan' reaction is mixed. Some exaggerated outrage, sone support, more mildly irritated indifference. He's seen as a squad player of D2 standard really, so few strong feelings about whether he fits in or not.
So your criticism basically boils down to why couldn't he just be a good little boy and suppress his deeply-held views? That might work for you but not everybody is so passive and obedient to authority.Quote:
Originally Posted by GypsyBlackCat
I never said they are. Please explain what relevance this has to anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by GypsyBlackCat
Pretty much all of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by GypsyBlackCat
The exaggerated outrage is always going to be the loudest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
I think he was signed as a squad player but Pulis referred to his start for Sunderland so he might be hoping for a similar impact. I mean, Walters was a lower league journeyman with a sterling work ethic. Under Pulis he became an integral player for a mid-table PL side. At an outlay of £1.5m and with a decent international career and relatively good age, there's little risk involved with the signing of McClean and the potential for resale if it doesn't work out.
He doesn't have to obey authority just show respect. Not to the Queen or Britain but to his teammates, fans and club. It made him look childish. Pulis wasn't too happy about it and has warned him not to do it again. So he must be like me then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
The relevance is he isn't a top player at one of one of the top teams. If he keeps making headlines for the wrong reasons clubs won't want him.
Well most WBA fans feel insulted and they are an English club. Reading some of the comments from their fans.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfman
Players have been called up by the FA over incidents involving, politics, gender, race, religion and sexuality. ie. Rio Ferdinand and Robbie Fowler.
Innocent civilians on both sides were killed. Some people like to heal the wounds (like the Parry's) others want to keep them open. People like McClean only want to hear their side of the story but they're two.
Showing respect in this instance is putting your head down (ironically) and suppressing your own objections. Like I said, that might be what you'd do, but when you do have strong feelings you don't just suppress them to keep up appearances.Quote:
Originally Posted by GypsyBlackCat
Haven't seen any, but here's a bit of contemporaneous reporting from the Sentinel.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
If he feels that strongly why didn't he move to New York? He does realize that he pays taxes to the crown which go towards the armed forces? He's entitled to his views and beliefs. But he must know that people will not agree with him and call him a hypocrite? I'm sure he knows that innocent people on both sides died (21 in Birmingham) and this is seen as supporting the IRA?He mightn't be?! It's sad that people still feel this way and still like upon Britain as the enemy. It looks like some people will refuse to move and halt progress.[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Because you don't have to move halfway around the world whenever you disagree with something? I think the Irish state and establishment has been and continues to be abhorrent on many levels. It doesn't make me a hypocrite to still live here. If you stopped seeing things in black and white for a moment you might realise protesting the institutions of state doesn't amount to a rejection of the entire country and all of its inhabitants.Quote:
Originally Posted by GypsyBlackCat
I'm not looking at it from a black and white view, I'm looking at from different angles. IMO, the days of the Troubles are over. That's why we have the Peace Process, The Good Friday Argeement and Power Sharing. I don't see the point in being bitter towards the British government or the Royal family. For me it's better to work together and teach young people about the past so we don't repeat it. Show then that despite the horrible past we can move forward together and build a better future. That's just my views and beliefs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
James McClean has his and that's fine. I don't agree with him. He views GSTQ and the Union Jack and symbols of an oppressive state that terrorized his homeland. I can understand that. At the same time I realize that GSTQ and the Union Jack means everything to them. The homes, family etc. So I can understand how they'll feel insulted. Surely people understand that?
http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...-31392538.html
Tony Pulis tells him he has to face the flag like everyone else.
Jaysus it made the huffington post!
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015...n_7830658.html
Firstly, I think he could have stayed facing the flag and just looked down, like the NI lads did in Danny's photo. It would have been far more discrete and I don't think anybody could have rationally accused him of anything, on either side. That said, it's his call really, if he felt uncomfortable facing it he was under no real obligation to do so.
No doubt, it's almost as if he feels more of an obligation to his friends, neighbours, family members and ancestors than he does to some hot headed strangers with internet access or the British press.Quote:
Originally Posted by GypsyBlackCat
I'm sure he does too, but he's not asking anybody to stand respectfully in front of a tricolour while Amhrán na bhFiann is banging out. He's simply refraining from doing the opposite.Quote:
Originally Posted by GypsyBlackCat
James couldn't have put it better himself, well maybe...Quote:
Originally Posted by GypsyBlackCat
Quote:
Originally Posted by James McClean
Wait....he's NOT a terrorist? :bomb:
mcclean has not been any more disrespectful to the english flag than those who follow England and scrawl their towns and local pubs name across their flag. its probably the same people jumping up and down about this.
all a fuss over nothing.
You really can't help yourself, can you? Several people already pointed out that I may have missed the point a little bit before I had a greater sense of the bigger picture - I even acknowledged so myself. There is no need for you to chime in with a daft passive-aggressive jibe that doesn't contribute anything to the discussion.Quote:
Thank God you responded to that before I saw it. You've saved me a suspension! :p
God knows I think some of your missives are a little bit long-winded and out there, but I don't insult you.
Grow up.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/...-james-mcclean
Just out of interest, do the Italians, Spanish, French & Germans play their national anthems before their domestic cup finals?
Seriously, this is a total non-story. He didn't insult their flag or anthem. A slow news week.
Made some suicidal runs from time to time, fit in well with our suicidal defending :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Crosby87
It is a none story really, he is as entitled to his opinion as anyone else, I mean this is West Brom ffs not North Korea.
I understand that. But he is under obligation to stand and face the flag when representing West Brom, as Tony Pulis stated yesterdayQuote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
Respect is a two way street, if you want people to respect your views you have to respect theirs. Maybe he was maybe he wasn't. But from the pictures it did look like he was making a point and insulting the flag and anthem. I can see both points of views.Quote:
“I had a chat with him and explained what we do as a football club and the way we are and I think he’s fine with everything.“He’s got to turn towards the flag like everybody else has and he recognises that. He thought he was OK to close his eyes and put his head down in respect of both anthems.
The matter has been handle brilliantly by Pulis. He didn't slated the player but made it clear where the club stands on this. He also gave the old 'He's not a bad lad' gem. And now the matter is put to bed.
Hopefully. Complete drivel in the media, on all sides.
Interesting that a writer from the Daily Telegraph stands up for McLean http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...-offended.html
It seems to me like Pulis isn't even remotely fussed about the whole thing but realised he had to say something. He said James understands, relatively safe in the knowledge that this situation may never even present itself again, while McClean is a West Brom player or while he's managing at the club. I find it kind of hard to believe McClean, for all his principles, would just say, "oh right boss, I didn't realise it was insulting not to face the flag, I will in future". He really should have just faced it in the first place if he's that uncommitted to his stance.Quote:
Originally Posted by GypsyBlackCat
I can only think of it in the terms of somebody doing the same to the tricolour over here. I don't think I'd be even slightly offended, especially if, as recently as last November, they documented their views in the public domain in a very respectful way.Quote:
Originally Posted by GypsyBlackCat
I still think he should have probably faced the flag though overall, but I don't really think it was all that disrespectful, more unnecessarily drawing attention to himself.
Martin Johnson did something like that during an Six Nations game. I didn't find it offensive but it was disrespectful. I think Johnson was more of an ar$e than politic statement.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
I'd imagine Pulis wants to keep what happened in house. He might of had a chat to him or he might have gave him the hairdryer treatment. I think he was more annoyed that the player let him down. He put some faith in McClean and then this thing blew up and he's getting attention for all the wrong reasons. I wouldn't say it was a 'rebuke'. But it's dealt with now.
this is funny "A Derry MP advised West Brom to sack McClean, adding that “he’s not worth the trouble”." as the unnamed politician probably has no problem attending 12th July bonfires which more times than not have an Irish flag on topQuote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
Think that link's already up on here?
Tony Pulis: 'He’s got to turn towards the flag like everybody else has and he recognises that. He thought he was OK to close his eyes and put his head down in respect of both anthems.'
Does that suggest McClean actually argued that what he did was his way of respecting the anthems (:D) or does it mean 'just get through them'?
big shock here where the English team entirely refuse to face their flag and instead set up to do the conga...Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yV0SoeEDuk
Nice free publicity for that clown Gregory Campbell.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
At the very least he should treat McClean to a curry & yogurt when they're both next in town.