Andy Reid(b 1982)

450 posts in the first 20 months of this thread

then reid does his thing in mainz (which incidentally receives no coverage on this thread at the time, there being no posts from 16/5/08 to 18/11/08) and in the next 12 months we have 800 more posts extolling the virtues of the magnificent reid.

absence, fonder etc etc. Reid is not a panacea for all of our ills. Indeed, he is not one for very many of them.

[I would have him in the squad but fail to see what all the fuss is about save usual journalist agendas]

Jicked- I understand the points you are making and obviously Trap feels the exact same way as you. I think everybody understands the system at this stage. The problem some of us have though is that although Whelan and Andrews have a precise, well defined role, that doesn't mean that they are carrying it out particularly well. To be honest I'm willing to accept it at this stage, at least for now, but I don't think it's ideal and I do think Reid would improve things in there, even in an unfamiliar role.

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Originally Posted by SuperDave

450 posts in the first 20 months of this thread

then reid does his thing in mainz (which incidentally receives no coverage on this thread at the time, there being no posts from 16/5/08 to 18/11/08) and in the next 12 months we have 800 more posts extolling the virtues of the magnificent reid.

absence, fonder etc etc. Reid is not a panacea for all of our ills. Indeed, he is not one for very many of them.

[I would have him in the squad but fail to see what all the fuss is about save usual journalist agendas]

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I certainly would agree with you. Trap has been proved right on a number of issues in my opinion. Look at the hue and cry about omitting Steve Finnan - injured again at the weekend and S. Reid - not even on the bench at the weekend.

If he included A. Reid in the squad there would be ferocious media demand for his inclusion. It would disrupt a settled squad that did so well against Italy.

Plenty of time to experiment (win or lose) after the French games.

Then I hope to see all three involved and some major experimentation to build the best possible team, hopefully for WC2010, but if not for 2012.

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Originally Posted by SuperDave

450 posts in the first 20 months of this thread

then reid does his thing in mainz (which incidentally receives no coverage on this thread at the time, there being no posts from 16/5/08 to 18/11/08) and in the next 12 months we have 800 more posts extolling the virtues of the magnificent reid.

absence, fonder etc etc. Reid is not a panacea for all of our ills. Indeed, he is not one for very many of them.

[I would have him in the squad but fail to see what all the fuss is about save usual journalist agendas]

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So what??? Are you the ONE Irish “punter” that says that Trap is right to leave Reid out???

Or, are you saying that an “Emperor has no clothes” approach should be taken and no comments made about this ridiculous omission?

ps. I am always amused when a poster asks why a football topic is being discussed at length on a football forum…eh…D’uh!!!

No, there's just an awful lot of us saying his omission isn't ridiculous, and looking at the actual way the team plays to justify that.

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Originally Posted by eaststand85

Andy Reid's Dad was on Pat Kenny's radio show this morning. Thought he came across very well as he spoke of how patriotic Andy was and how disappointed he was not to be playing etc.

Edit: Sorry, should point out he was on talking about something else entirely (some scheme he's involved in to help residents of Fatima Mansions) and wasn't doing a Stephen Ireland's Dad on it, Kenny just felt obliged to ask him about his son and the ongoing issue of his omission from the Ireland squad.

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Reid's dad and his uncles used to play in various 7-a-sides around the south side of Dublin in the 70's/80's as a family team. Played against them in Harold's Cross. We were robbed 6-0 if I remember rightly. I took a peno that ended up in Rathmines.

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Originally Posted by Scram

So what??? Are you the ONE Irish “punter” that says that Trap is right to leave Reid out???

Or, are you saying that an “Emperor has no clothes” approach should be taken and no comments made about this ridiculous omission?

ps. I am always amused when a poster asks why a football topic is being discussed at length on a football forum…eh…D’uh!!!

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Lets keep this on football and leave the ad hominems for the playground.

My point is simply that Andy Reid was obviously considered a squad player before his exclusion, and that no mention of his being on the bench and not playing a part either against Georgia or Montenegro was made on this thread until the truth came out some time later. It is amazing to see how someone who was in reality a bit part player who had one good game against a German side who needed only a point to qualify (and clearly played for that point and would probably have qualified regardless) suddenly becomes a world beating genius as a result of his exclusion.

And as I said, if things were different, I would have him in the squad (and possibly the team but far from definitely) but Trap is the manager and Trap is getting results. If he thinks it is right, I am right behind him.

[QUOTE=SuperDave;1263852] suddenly becomes a world beating genius as a result of his exclusion.

QUOTE]

Nobody is claiming he's a world beating genius.......just better than Miller, Gibson, Whelan and Andrew's that's all.

You agree with trap...good for you....you're in good company.

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Originally Posted by Greenbod

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Originally Posted by SuperDave

suddenly becomes a world beating genius as a result of his exclusion.

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Nobody is claiming he's a world beating genius.......just better than Miller, Gibson, Whelan and Andrew's that's all.

You agree with trap...good for you....you're in good company.

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I was exagerrating. My point is no-one made an issue of it when he was in the squad but not playing against Montenegro and Georgia, nor even against Cyprus, when he was on the bench, which was a full month after the Mainz incident (!), because no-one saw his non-playing as being that big an issue or seemed worried about the team missing a creative influence. It's not like he was injured or anything because as this page shows he was playing regularly for Sunderland.

Edit: I have to say I am surprised because I didn't remember that he was on the bench for the Cyprus game. I thought all along Trap was only excluding him for footballing reasons and this seems to back it up!

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Originally Posted by SuperDave

Edit: I have to say I am surprised because I didn't remember that he was on the bench for the Cyprus game. I thought all along Trap was only excluding him for footballing reasons and this seems to back it up!

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Exactly and when Trap talks about needing players with a happy demeanor he's also referring to that game. He left Reid on the bench, probably for the footballing reasons I've mentioned above. The game went pretty much to plan against a good Cypriot side, scored early, settle the whole game down and not give them any chance of getting back in to it. The team were slaughtered for the performance for some reason, Cyprus only threatened once late on when they had a shot charged down (compare that to how they tore certain teams apart in this campaign!)

During the game the big screens would zoom in on Reid sitting on the bench looking none too happy. As the game went on at 1-0 they repeatedly did this and Reid seemed to get grumpier looking. The fans started responding, turning on the players despite a fine performance/result, the majority were of the opinion that Cyprus were a team we should have beaten comfortably and with Reid in the side would have hammered them 3 or 4-0.
In fact Cyprus were a pretty good side, we were fairly comfortable in keeping them at bay (remember what they did to Italy twice in this campaign, and scored 4 against Bulgaria) yet because we didn't score 3 or 4, or dominate possession people thought we were hammered and outclassed despite everything going to the gameplan pretty much.

Dave,

perhaps the reason for the lack of exclamation at that time was due to the fact that most posters could see something behind the decision to leave him out. The weight, the late night songs and sessions etc.

The landscape has changed now. Reid heeded those criticisms and lost a lot of weight, improved his fitness and his all round play and influence on a game has increased massively. He has since simply stated his desire to play for his country with as little fuss or media crap as possible (please see Stephen Ireland for a comparison).

To continue to exclude Reid from the squad speaks volumes about Trappatoni's stubborness and double standards. This is the same manager who continues to implore Ireland to come back when he is ready. Im not saying that Reid is going to win us a World Cup but neither would/will Stephen Ireland. Both players would have to be accommodated to fit into Trappatoni's system so there goes that argument against Reid... its a clear case of double standards.

There is room in the squad for Andy Reid at least. His exclusion beggars belief in my humble opinion.

I should add that Trappatoni has done a pretty good job so far.

And still we have those who think Trap is a bumbling fool, a lucky manager who has deserved to lose every game but somehow by a freak of nature we managed to stay unbeaten. Or we have the popular myth that Trap doesn't know what he is doing, but it's the players who are keeping us going. All rubbish of course. Trap's system, tactics and team selection are the reason we are where we are, in spite sometimes of the players and some idiotic mistakes by certain defenders.

A bit like Jack Charlton, he has taken a group of international underperformers and with the aid of a system turned them into an effective unit defensively and going forward. But no-one wanted to give Charlton credit either despite turning a team from no-hopers into world beaters in a few years. Charlton was holding them back was the usual mantra from certain quarters. They said if it wasn't for Charlton we could have done this and that, won the world cup and so on, how it was a disgrace to leave Brady and O'Leary on the bench, players by the way who were part of an underachiveing team prior to the Charlton era.

A quick review of our qualification then.

We went one up against the Bulgarians in Dublin and were on balance I thought the better team. Petrov looked dangerous but containable. I suppose people through rose tinted glasses will say that Petrov dominated the match, which he didn't. He strung together a few passes which usually lead to nothing and stood out in an incredibly average Bulgarian team. This same Bulgarian team had superstars at their disposal, Petrov in the centre of midfield and Berbatov as well as Martin Petrov in midfield. And yet they did very poorly in the group and were soundly beaten by Italy. Makes you think it's pointless having creative players in the centre of the park if the Italians are going to beat you every time. Against the Bulgarians in Dublin, the own goal was a very unlucky one to concede.

In Sofia, again we were unlucky not to win the match.

Against the Italians in Croke Park, naivity cost us both goals and the victory. And in football, it doesn't matter if the other team hold the ball for 99% and were awesome. What counts at the end of the day was who scored more goals, it really is a simple game that way. The purists might hate that we give the ball away. However if we win a match despite giving the ball away, that's enough for me.

Against the Italians in Bari, we dominated long stretches of that match. We had far more chances than the Italians, who in any case are notorious for scoring from almost every chance they get.

We got good results away against Georgia and Cyprus and the same at home, even if sometimes the performance wasn't great.

Trap had much more limited resources than Mick McCarthy who got to 3 playoffs in succession and probably more limited resources than Brian Kerr who had Roy Keane and Stephen Finnan in his prime at his disposal.

He's done a better job than McCarthy, Kerr and Stan, with less resources, so he is not a bumbling fool.

So in conclusion, the Bulgarians chose creative central midfielders and did nothing in the group. Ireland went with two defensive central midfielders and could have won the group if it wasn't for a couple of unlucky goals conceded.

Maybe it's time we all had more faith in the manager, even if sometimes his decisions appear strange. If we stick creative midfielders who like to get forward in the middle of the park, there's a very strong possibility we will suffer like the Bulgarians suffered.

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So in conclusion, the Bulgarians chose creative central midfielders and did nothing in the group. Ireland went with two defensive central midfielders and won the group

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If only we had won the group:(......but you do make some excellent points

At last a bit of faith in our manager!! Sick of the Irish 'we're $hit attitude'

Trappatoni is a magnificent manager. Reid doesn't fit into his system although he is a very gifted player. We nearly beat the world champions twice so I fully trust Trappatoni. He is extremely defensive in his approach. Full backs aren't allowed go on the overlap etc. Trapp therefor favours two defensive central middielders , Andrews and Whelan both of whom are accomplished premier league players.

Andy Reid is unlucky. Alot of gifted players haven't fit in to their international manager's vision. Zico was a sub for Brazil's quarter final clash with France in Mexico 86. Mathew LeTissier was very creative but didn't get a look in with the England team while Carlton Palmer did! History is full of such instances. Liam Brady and Charlton illustrates my point best.

Charlton wasn't that crazy.
Brady played a central role in all the games under Charlton before he did his cruciate in.

I'm willing to go with Trap on this one. He has his systems and these have worked for us so far. His systems seem to focus on defensive ball winners in the center, and pace on the wing - given this it's hard to see how Reid would break into the system. The only way I could see Reid getting into the starting 11 under Trap would be him playing off the main striker as a sort of second striker, but that would mean dropping one of Doyle or Keane (which would be the former) and I dont see a Keane-Reid striking lineup working, there wouldnt be enough physical presence.

Andy Reid is a good player, but he's not good enough to warrant messing up a system this far into qualification... now if we could some how put John Sheridan in a time machine and set the dial to 1994...

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Originally Posted by Emmet7

Maybe it's time we all had more faith in the manager, even if sometimes his decisions appear strange. If we stick creative midfielders who like to get forward in the middle of the park, there's a very strong possibility we will suffer like the Bulgarians suffered.

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Well said Emmet. Bulgaria played their star players (Berbatov, Petrov and Petrov) to get the most of their attacking talent, but this was to the overall detriment of the team's entire effectiveness. It's been said here so many times, it's almost a mantra but the best players do not necessarily make the best team.

The first thing I saw switching on the MOTD highlights last weekend was Reid controling a dropping ball on the edge of the box dribble wide, lose possession and the opposition missing an absolute sitter, when they shouldn't have had a sniff. Brought a wee smile to the face.

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Originally Posted by Kingdom

The first thing I saw switching on the MOTD highlights last weekend was Reid controling a dropping ball on the edge of the box dribble wide, lose possession and the opposition missing an absolute sitter, when they shouldn't have had a sniff. Brought a wee smile to the face.

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Glad you had a good laugh at the that. Imagine an Irish player miscontrolling a football!!!

If you found that so funny, you must be in hysterics watching some of the Irish players attempts at controlling and passing the ball this campaign.

Well, seeing as you only remarked on that clip, just to let you know it obviously wasn't the only thing that he did all match...

http://www.readytogo.net/smb/showthread.php?t=451433