Next Senior Men's Team Manager - Runners and Riders

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Originally Posted by elatedscum

I think the fair point Eirrambler is making is that a good appointment, lets assume Lee Carsley, if he brings in an extra 5,000 punters a game, then that equates to over €1m in additional revenue per year. So being stingy to the point where you can't attract a good candidate does, in the end, cost the association more money. And if you're budgeting, you can factor in the increased wages or increased cost of the backroom staff with what you expect to earn from match days...

The big cash cow is of course if you can get a manager capable of qualifying you for a tournament. A single unexpected tournament qualification would be enough to stabilise the FAI finances for the foreseeable future... That's why Uruguay (a country similar in size to ourselves) are prepared to pay Bielsa $4m a year (a Trappatoni type wage)

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And if that "good" appointment flops, plays dirt football, is worse than Kenny results wise (probably not possible, but anything can happen), and they lose 10-15k supporters per game? Thats 3m less by your calculations. What then?

I'm sure the FAI would be happy to offer $4m Uruguayan dollars a year to the right manager too, it's about €95k a year.

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Originally Posted by ontheotherhand

I'm going out on a limb here, but Uruguay have a better chance of qualifying for tournaments than us. That ain't the same gamble at all.

As you said "a single, unexpected tournament qualification" solves a lot. The problem there is chasing the unlikely with money we don't have. Is the risk worth the reward? Not for me. We are arguably already pushing the budget out and have been for a while. The Carlsey saga tells me we are probably already banking an attendance increases at a minimum. It fell apart due to backroom staff wage needs? IF that's true then I'd say we were in risky territory to begin with.

McCarthy would cost probably double or triple what we are rumoured to have. Does he get us to a tournament? Who else goes unpaid while we wait for it?

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Some posters expect us to do a Leeds/Portsmouth/Rangers, and hope that it works out for us unlike how it turned out for them.

Yeah, in our current situation, performance-related pay has to be a given. Offer someone ambitious a chance at good money, but only if the results are there. And yes, good candidates would snub that. We can't afford them.

Hill and FAI getting a grilling at an Oireachtas Committee this morning:: https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/oireachtas-tv/cr3-live/

I reckon the new manager will be on minimum wage, given that the suits' holiday expenses have to be paid first.

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Originally Posted by texidub

Hill and FAI getting a grilling at an Oireachtas Committee this morning:: https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/oireachtas-tv/cr3-live/

I reckon the new manager will be on minimum wage, given that the suits' holiday expenses have to be paid first.

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You mean "holiday pay" that's a legal requirement for every worker in the country??

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Originally Posted by weldoninhio

You mean "holiday pay" that's a legal requirement for every worker in the country??

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That'd be the one. I should have said 'the suits need to be taken care of first.' As an aside, I hate it when privileged professionals hide behind 'worker' language. Despite being meaningful in a legal sense --they do 'work'-- it's quite disingenuous, IMO. Holiday pay requirements weren't brought in to protect people on 250K+ a year...

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Originally Posted by weldoninhio

You mean "holiday pay" that's a legal requirement for every worker in the country??

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I don't think there's a statutory requirement to pay untaken annual leave to an employee still in service though, which is what happened here so far as I can see.

If you leave employment, you get paid for untaken holidays. But if you carry forward days, then statutorily you either use them within six months of year-end or you lose them (see here). You can agree otherwise with your employer of course - which seems to be what happened here - but there's no legal requirement to pay staff still in employment for leave they haven't taken. Indeed, a company should be trying to ensure staff take their leave in full (or at least the statutory leave).

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Originally Posted by weldoninhio

You mean "holiday pay" that's a legal requirement for every worker in the country??

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If I don't take my full holiday allocation I don't get paid for the left over days and, as far as I know, my employer is perfectly legally entitled to hold that position.

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Originally Posted by weldoninhio

Some posters expect us to do a Leeds/Portsmouth/Rangers, and hope that it works out for us unlike how it turned out for them.

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I’m not saying that but there’s got to be some sense in reality as to what the market expects. Someone posted the IFA’s pay of Michael O’Neill (wasn’t it £/€1.2m?) - I know his previous IFA contract was £800k a year and his Stoke contract was £1.6m a year. The fact Lee Carsley was getting as much for being a u21 manager speaks volumes… And if an extra £200-300k gets you a much better manager, it’s money you need to find…

What was the old phrase… if you pay peanuts, you get Peter Reid…

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Originally Posted by Eirambler

If I don't take my full holiday allocation I don't get paid for the left over days and, as far as I know, my employer is perfectly legally entitled to hold that position.

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Which is what a lot of FAI employees are annoyed with because in their employment handbook it states that employees can't be paid in lieu for holidays not taken.

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Originally Posted by elatedscum

I’m not saying that but there’s got to be some sense in reality as to what the market expects. Someone posted the IFA’s pay of Michael O’Neill (wasn’t it £/€1.2m?) - I know his previous IFA contract was £800k a year and his Stoke contract was £1.6m a year. The fact Lee Carsley was getting as much for being a u21 manager speaks volumes… And if an extra £200-300k gets you a much better manager, it’s money you need to find…

What was the old phrase… if you pay peanuts, you get Peter Reid…

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Uruguay are paying €95k and got Bielsa.

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Originally Posted by weldoninhio

Uruguay are paying €95k and got Bielsa.

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assuming you're joking but he's paid $4m (US dollars)

There being no such thing as an Uruguayan dollar...

This 'find a manager' saga - and I think the process has gone on long enough to merit that term - is a national embarrassment. Transfermarkt have a long list of available coaches. Some of them are unemployed because they aren't much good, some have never managed at a high level, some are getting rather long in the tooth. It is depressing to think that no-one vaguely suitable has approached the FAI. If it's a perception that the squad available is of poor quality, that too is depressing, but there's not a lot can be done about that in the short term. If it's because the money on offer is too little to attract decent managers, it is depressing that no organisation or company has offered to top it up. One would have thought that Ticketmaster, for example, who make money out of every international ticket sold, could contribute something. I am reminded of the proverb: 'Success has many fathers, failure is an orphan'.

Time for a national whip-round? It saved Dublin Zoo!

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Originally Posted by Demesne Lad

This 'find a manager' saga - and I think the process has gone on long enough to merit that term - is a national embarrassment. Transfermarkt have a long list of available coaches. Some of them are unemployed because they aren't much good, some have never managed at a high level, some are getting rather long in the tooth. It is depressing to think that no-one vaguely suitable has approached the FAI. If it's a perception that the squad available is of poor quality, that too is depressing, but there's not a lot can be done about that in the short term. If it's because the money on offer is too little to attract decent managers, it is depressing that no organisation or company has offered to top it up. One would have thought that Ticketmaster, for example, who make money out of every international ticket sold, could contribute something. I am reminded of the proverb: 'Success has many fathers, failure is an orphan'.

Time for a national whip-round? It saved Dublin Zoo!

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It's not really.

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Originally Posted by Demesne Lad

This 'find a manager' saga - and I think the process has gone on long enough to merit that term - is a national embarrassment. Transfermarkt have a long list of available coaches. Some of them are unemployed because they aren't much good, some have never managed at a high level, some are getting rather long in the tooth. It is depressing to think that no-one vaguely suitable has approached the FAI. If it's a perception that the squad available is of poor quality, that too is depressing, but there's not a lot can be done about that in the short term. If it's because the money on offer is too little to attract decent managers, it is depressing that no organisation or company has offered to top it up. One would have thought that Ticketmaster, for example, who make money out of every international ticket sold, could contribute something. I am reminded of the proverb: 'Success has many fathers, failure is an orphan'.

Time for a national whip-round? It saved Dublin Zoo!

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The FAI was Delaney's Circus ~ ~ Maybe , It's still a circus !

It's unusual I guess to be without a senior manager for a long stretch, but when you consider there are no competitive fixtures til September perhaps it makes sense to wait. You would kind of think though that the later the appointment the more they can offer as they are saving x months of salary... assuming Kenny had no pay off (surely be to god he didn't) then it's been 3 months without his 550k salary and whatever his team was on. That's about 135k savings on the manager role alone.

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Originally Posted by Demesne Lad

This 'find a manager' saga - and I think the process has gone on long enough to merit that term - is a national embarrassment. Transfermarkt have a long list of available coaches. Some of them are unemployed because they aren't much good, some have never managed at a high level, some are getting rather long in the tooth. It is depressing to think that no-one vaguely suitable has approached the FAI. If it's a perception that the squad available is of poor quality, that too is depressing, but there's not a lot can be done about that in the short term. If it's because the money on offer is too little to attract decent managers, it is depressing that no organisation or company has offered to top it up. One would have thought that Ticketmaster, for example, who make money out of every international ticket sold, could contribute something. I am reminded of the proverb: 'Success has many fathers, failure is an orphan'.

Time for a national whip-round? It saved Dublin Zoo!

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I don't know the lengths exactly, but I've read that the searches for both Trap and MON took longer

Staunton was removed from the job in October 2007, Trapattoni's first game was in May 2008, although the appointment was announced the previous February.
IMO, if the right person is appointed, then the wait to appoint them is justified. If, however, it's someone completely uninspiring, then it'll have been a waste of everyone's time

Having seen the goings on today it's hard not to think they've spent more time prepping for evasion and covering their ar$es at the Government hearing than getting on with the job of finding manager.