Well the only ones killed were detaineesQuote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
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Well the only ones killed were detaineesQuote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
Ok fair points. Atacks on ICE or any law enforcement during crackdowns even in the most balanced of administrations would be expected and not classed as an ideological 'war'. But it does show the generalised lack of trust. After the Kirk murder, very quickly, without any evidence there were shouts of being under attack by the radical left. I think this was the basis for the Kimmel issues, he was countering this by inferring that the killer came from within a conservative community. or one of the rights own.
I mostly agree with the whole occam's razor thing, I dont run with conspiracy. But eg on covid I didnt run with the lab based pathogen release, it was an insterspecies transmission, I believed the published materiel and I was wrong. When issues with the astrazenica vaccine in young people were flagged it was unfortunate stats that in large scale rollouts there will always be a small cohort who have adverse reactions as with any drug, but the numbers now are looking like the red flags were warranted and ignored so I was wrong. Even fecking the whole JFK stuff I denied the conspiracy really, people see what they want to see....well he offical finding seem a stretch.
I am now questioning things a whole lot more in recent times. Im not so sure that occams razor applies so much depending on where and what. Its not cynicism, its speculation on whether evidence is legit and the balance of likelihood has changed - unlikely to be planted to possible. Im willing to accept either, when evidence is 'tested' by forensics or in investigation/court/crononer, but an awful lot of people have already decided one way or another which in itself is scary.
It feels dodge but thats not scientific, it feels ridiculously convenient so it might be real.
so you think that it was an anti-immigrant shooting and the authorities are engaged in an active cover up and deceiving the public? Fair enough - but its conspiracy theory territory, Razor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
No I dont Stu, all Im saying that the immediate jump to blame another "lefty lunatic" that is coming from Republicans over here again is a problem. The head of the FBI live tweeting evidence when he doesnt know the full picture at the time is cause for concern, hell just having the head of the FBI having such an open agenda is concerning tbh.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
Is it just the Republicans/Right/Conservative that engage in that jumping, Razor? I'm playing devils advocate a bit - as i agree - but all sides in America are doing it...both sides cant f*cking wait to blame the other...whether in/out of power. You will get that agenda / point scoring with a position that is a political appointee. Its the system y'all signed up for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
Stu do you not think its a problem when the head of the FBI is tweeting pictures of evidence right after something happens? I have never seen that sort of thing ever happen before. Trump was literally talking about how he hates his opponents the other day, again I have never seen that ever happen from a President in the past on either side. You have Jesse Waters on Fox News this week saying that the UN building should be blown up because the escalator and teleprompter didnt work for Trump. Last week the FCC forced Kimmell off the air, because in Trumps own words it should be illegal to criticize him so much. Every day there is something new that I could add to this list.
So no I dont think this is both sides are the same and one is as bad as the other.
You just keep changing the goalposts of the argument and its getting difficult to keep up...
For what its worth - Hoover, Comey - two examples off the top of my head of FBI Directors who played their own political game for their own ends or the interests of their overlords. What happened yesterday is so far down the list of awful or questionable actions perpetrated by that office over the last 100 years. I agreed with you more than once that it is political gamesmanship and that it is problematic but its the system you lot have and seem to live happily with until the wrong side does something.
All i said was that it had no evidentiary value as the person had shot himself after you tried to claim it would taint evidence...remember that's how this sliver of conversation started.
Trump saying he hates his opponents - wrong.
Jesse Waters saying blow up the UN - wrong.
FCC forcing Kimmel off the air - wrong.
What Clinton said about black people / super predators or whatever - wrong.
Kathy Griffin holding up a severed head of Trump - wrong.
Kimmels comments about Kirk - wrong.
"duh racist" and "duh libtard" as the default reaction to every incident or default position on every topic. Wrong.
In America, both sides of the political aisle/discourse have proven themselves to be as bad as each other.
I dont see how I was moving the goalposts, but I havent the energy to argue that both sides are not the same if thats what you really think. I would have thought its pretty clear that what is happening under the current administration is unprecedented and the country will suffer for a long time because of it. Id actually probably say that right now the Democrats are not being strong enough in their opposition and calling out the bullsh1t
The current administration is a complete pox. Its disgusting. American society is a disgrace to the word civilization and both sides of the political aisle can take an equal share of the blame for that, going back decades. Those statements can and should live beside each other.
Thats something I can agree with
Anyone else still seeing ads? I'm not, but Google does "automatic ads" now and I could have left some code behind that allows them to continue injecting ads. I can't close the account until they pay out the pay few quid
I'm not, since they were done away with.
Im still seeing them, maybe its a location thing?
not seeing them
Just on the point of what Kimmel said, Stu, I want to note that he said nothing about Kirk's murder itself, except to express horror and sadness. The comments that were touted as a reason to suspend him were when he pointed our that the Right was scrambling to portray the guy arrested as having nothing to do with them (they were) and said that the Right would use it as an opportunity to score political points, which they clearly did when they forced him off the air.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
Yes! Sam, you are right. Sorry, I was rushing in quite a few of my posts yesterday as i was distracted at work so my wording was a bit sloppy alright. I said at the time (and I think on here?) that the decision to take him off the air was absolutely ridiculous and wrong... even though I do believe the comments he made about the situation were also wrong - not helpful.
Watching the Ryder Cup gives a better understanding of how Trump gets elected. The American crowd are absolutely obnoxious bellends
Both Europe and USA as hosts have been happy to ratchet up the 'engagement' with crowds to develop a more gladiatorial atmospehere. Remember the exhuberance that greeted Mahan's duffed chip about 15 years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
We now have McIlroy shouting at the crowd to f**k off....grim stuff.
You chaps need to watch some Mosconi Cup from the 90s on YouTube :D:D
As fcuked as America is, this crowd / participant interaction in USA v Europe isn't new, we can't blame the Donald for this one.
I would say search an early 90s Jimmy White / Alex Higgins doubles match particularly, both so visibly coked they actually could not sit down when the Americans had the table. And winning. And laughing hard at everything American throughout including the audience.
I don't blame Donald at all for the cretins at the Ryder Cup, Im blame those type for why we have the DonaldQuote:
Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke