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That's the thing, Dundalk are going to have another few goes at the Champions League over the next few years. All it takes is a half decent draw one year and you might even get a go at the playoff round.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
I don't see you getting into the CL group stages but I think we'll see Dundalk in the EL group stages again within the next 3 years
The usual social media knee jerk reaction to an Irish team losing in Europe I see last night. Christ it gets boring.
A bitterly disappointing way to go out for me. The defending for the second goal was not up to the required standard and if Dundalk are to get past Bratislava then they need to do better than that. The first goal in Oriel Pk as well had a major impact on the tie overall and let’s face it – it was incredibly soft. The complexion of the tie is totally different if Qarabag don’t have an away goal. If Irish teams are to Progress in Europe – they need everything to go right. Not gifting goals such as this really is the starting point.
Having said all that – Slovan Bratislava’s (1-1,1-1 L on Pens Sutjeska Niksic (Mont), (2-1, 2-0 Feronkeilli ( Kos) ) results don’t look all that impressive. That was Sutjeska’s first time winning a tie in Europe and they were comprehensively beaten by APOEL. Bratislava will be no mugs, but surely represent a decent opportunity to make the Play off round where with the draw set up the way it is ( 10 ELQR3 winners - 6 un-seeded teams will play CLQR3 losers, and the other 4 un-seeded will face off against each other ) anything could happen.
Based on last night's performance, LOI sides are as far away from qualifying for Europe as they were in the 90's. Hopefully SRFC can buck that trend and the overall feeling of glum. Great money Dundalk have earned, but they need 5-10 times that much money to reach a group stage. Qarabag look to have the same relative riches Celtic have in Scotland, whereas Dundalk are very much a bottom of the table SPL team by comparison, could have lost 6 or 7 nil last night, and probably should have. I hope the same fate doesn't await Rovers.
The thing is there is progression but this Dundalk side have regressed from where they were a few years back. The defensive errors or lapses in concentration were removed from their game but it seems to have seeped back into the side even though they have brought in extra quality to the side(horgan irreplaceable really aside). The defensive line up last night as well is similar to the 2016 side who coped very well with sides just as good as Qarebag. That's the slightly disappointing thing.
And its not like late 90s/2000s there is further progression and in general much better performances, and consistency between two sides now, that you didnt have way back then, bar maybe Bohemians in the early to mid 2000s. It's just annoying that those stupid errors that seemed to be eradicated have appeared to slip back into teams.
Either way Dundalk and Rovers can only improve playing these sides and quality. Can only be better for them, even if confidence is dented in Dundalks case last night. I do think that it needs to be Dundalk and Rovers consolidating and building their co-effs for the next couple of years though.
I re-read that article this morning and the one last night, theres definitely less negativity between the two but it still comes across as though the journo was scrambling to get something in and had set out his stall early doors and kept the theme running through. I missed the first ten minutes but from then on till 70 minutes Dundalk were holding their own, if not controlling the ball. And for 50-70/75 they were getting further forward and moving the ball faster/quicker.
I didn't see the same match. I saw a side that were never going to score, and always looked like gifting away a bunch of soft goals. It's all well and good to be getting a few passes away, and being relatively compact in defence, up to a point,but every player took 4/5 seconds too long on the ball going forward and then got ambushed by a hungry pack of Qarabag players. That's the step up. I don't wanna slate Dundalk, but there's such an ocean to cross before something like CL Group Stages for them at this moment in time. Maybe they can refocus efforts to beat Bratislava, and I really want that to be the case, but they will have to be much better than they were last night.
The best route for any side getting to the EL group stages is via the EL r3, forget about the CL, will never happen again for an side to even make the play offs for that. Just look at the standard of side left or entering CL r3, Ajax, Celtic/Cluj, Copenhagen / Red Star, D Zagreb / Feren’s, all are seeded then likes of unseeded ones like Young Boys, APOEL, Qarabag, Maribor, etc and more also.
Last night was tough and was def the strongest team we have faced since Zenit, the regression of DFC midfield quality is another challenge, as was 4/10 performances last night from Duffy and McEleney. Reviewing the two legs in full, DFC were the better side for 45 mins only, it was a stroll in the park for Qarabag apart from that. They were fully deserved winners, just a pity about the sloppy 3rd goal.
On to Bratislava now next week, they will be no mugs but will be a much more level playing field, and will be a good chance to get back on track, but it will need a huge improvement. Its obvious Bratislava are a considerable step down on Qarabag and granted they lost in the CL r1 to Sutjeska of Montenegro, but they have a much bigger budget than Dundalk. In saying that, I still think we will have a good chance of progressing, as long as we take back a decent score from next Wed night. Whoever makes it will then probably face a much higher ranked side in the EL play off round, draw for that is this Monday.
Looking at who is left / will be left in EL, Bratislava is not the worst one for Dundalk, they will of course be thinking the exact same.
Best of luck to Rovers tonight.
Progress and preparation for LOI teams in Europe is all well and good but it can't be at the expense of other clubs.
Europe has become a valid reason for clubs/ FAI to brush LOI games aside and thats not good enough. The club in Europe gets all the preferential treatment ... the clubs who can well afford to have match postponed are being favored over teams that are basically surviving.
Our game against Dundalk was due to be played on a Bank Holiday Monday, so a good crowd guaranteed. Now its postponed and we will have it rearranged for for some crappy Tuesday, plus adding insult to injury, it means we now have no league home game for over a month. This is the third season in a row we have gone months without a home game. Its a joke.
The European bias combined with the ridiculous fixture list has the potential to put teams to the wall. Where will all the LOI fans be who say you should be supporting all LOI teams in Europe be then.
Im not suggesting that Qarabag werent a level or two above Dundalk, they certainly were, and it showed when the heads dropped and the concentration dipped in the last 15 minutes. I am also not suggesting that Dundalk could have won this game, but they could realistically have been going in holding onto a 2-1 lead and things might have been different. True they never really looked like scoring but had hoban left the chance for mcgrath and it had gone in then, again, you're looking at a different game. I am also not suggesting that they or any other side are close to CL group stages, but i think like oriel suggests with some luck and eradicating those silly lapses then later stages EL or play-off round is definitely a perennial possibility.Quote:
Originally Posted by CorribsideSteve
The two teams that are slightly odd teams out seem to be Cluj and Ferencváros who were both on 3.5 going into the draw. Are there leagues/budgets that much better? probably but still...Quote:
Originally Posted by oriel
I mean the important thing is to keep your seeding ticking over at the minimum, ie winning the game when your seeded. It still requires going through 2 ties as a non-seed so it would then just depend on getting a good draw (twice), a bit of luck and/or playing their hearts out (twice).
The Champions route does make things a bit interesting in limiting it to champions and restricting the draw from other more worrying high seeded opposition. So hopefully things work out at some point but yea obviously there needs to be a step up across the board if the league is gona reach the likes of Hungary/Romania/Scandanavian teams...
Maybe i am an optimist at heart but Dundalk are playing a team ranked well below them and if they get through that are in a play off for the group stages.
Rovers have a tough task tonight and i am worried enough about that but then would play Austria Vienna (ranked well above Appollon) before they would get to the play offs.
The champions path represents a decent chance at group stages every year for whoever wins the league and with EL2 coming group stage is closer than ever (for the champs)
Well the current group stages were only introduced in the late 90s so this doesn't really mean anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by CorribsideSteve
I cant see that EL2 thing lasting very long, financially it would have to be a drain on UEFA.
Austria Wien are ranked well below Apollon.Quote:
Originally Posted by sbgawa
Nobody is really arsed about that whole argument unfortunately.Quote:
Originally Posted by redobit
Pushing clubs to breaking point and without any real progress to justify it.
If clubs that qualify for Europe want co operation from other clubs they should be willing to share the money they make. Why should Sligo (or any club ) incur loss to assist another LOI club earn huge amounts (by LOI standards) of cash ?Quote:
Originally Posted by dong
There is no Benifit at all for Sligo in Dundalk progressing so why should they lose a lucrative gate ? Surely up to Dundalk or whoever to use the euro money to provide an adequate squad ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
You are right , i meant to say Austria Vienna are ranked well above Rovers while Dundalk are playing a team ranked below them.
On a positive note a bit like Dundalk are now playing an easier team, at least if we get through tonight we should have at least as good a chance against Austria Vienna as we had against Appollon.
First 10 mins tonight are massive, hoping to see a bit of energy from Rovers and avoid an early goal.
The Champions path is a massive advantage (as it should be)
I'd agree with a lot of this. I missed most of the first 20 and wasn't fully concentrated on the game, but for long spells it seemed fairly even. At times Dundalk seemed to have heaps of space in the middle of the pitch only to be let down by a really sloppy touch, pass or poor decision. Hoban, McEleny and Duffy were especially disappointing in this aspect of the game. It's the part of Dundalk's game that was probably most impressive in their previous run and it seemed to desert them last night. As POS has said there was a spell from around 55-75 where Dundalk were getting on top, and Quarabag were looking tired, with player cramping up. It culminated with the Hoban backheel chance and ended swiftly with the Quarabag second. The second killed the game Dundalk heads went down and the Quarabag kicked on. Had Dundalk scored during that spell it could have been a very different outcome. That's not to say there wasn't a gulf in class, but there's not need to overplay it either.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Disappointing Rovers game is not on TV. Hopefully they can keep it tight early and nick something from a set piece again.
Those are all fair points. Luck is huge. Speaking of which, best of luck to Rovers tonight. Even with a 2-1 lead, oppressive heat and just one lapse in concentration, and it could be a long evening. Would love to see Jack Byrne step at and be at it from the 1st whistle like last time out.Holding out hope!Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Yeah, there should be a compensation package for clubs who have games postponed for no other reason than to aid their opponents European run. €20k or something per game. If clubs want to knock that of their Euro money then it's their own decision.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinobohs
I'm in favour of compensation for clubs having home games fooked around with for the Euro teams. Does a move to midweek cost the home club €20k though?Quote:
Originally Posted by bohsmug