LOI in Europe 2022

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Originally Posted by oriel

But surely this was completely diff, we played the u19's / B team / tea lady managed team and lost 4-0 indeed, but that was a one off game to ensure team was fresh for EL play off. We are talking about 3-4 consistent not having a go displays now by Rovers in group stage.

Ps the A team put the record straight with a 4-2 win v Rovers 3 months later in the cup final, easily the better team after 90 mins and most of ET.

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Jaysus oriel I'm not reliving the cup with you! 😅

Do you really think we didn't have a go in the home games? I'd disagree with that. Away from home sure I'd agree but at home we've played well in both games. Points on the board as well which is more than Dundalk got in 2020 or we got in 2011.

What is "having a go" worth anyway? Is the 2020 Dundalk side lauded in song? I'd have almost forgotten you were in the groups to be honest. There were more striking stories coming out of Oriel that year than a few gutsy defeats.

Now the other Dundalk is a different story. They were brilliant and are rightly talked about as the best LoI side of all time. But it didn't last. We are attempting to build something that lasts. Maybe we are getting it wrong but it's odd that people don't see the reasoning at the very least.

I thought we played some really good football against Molde but if you do not take your chances in Europe you have no hope. The 2022 Rovers are very average with perhaps only Andy Lyons out of the Squad playing consistently above average. The League has to be won end of and as we have a decent chance of doing that European Group Stages are secondary to that ambition. Am i pleased with this No but its right for the club in the here and now. Next Season's league will be a lot more competitive with Derry and possibly Dundalk and Pats having ever chance Rovers may then possibly finding themselves deciding to focus on European games and still get well beaten in all bar one or two. Getting that 2nd gold star on our jersey is this years priority folks.

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Originally Posted by CSAD

Oh Rovers definitely won?t be, Nope I have a loathe hatred for teams that accept mediocrity and have no ambition. And I wouldn?t hope if I was you, you?re going to be disappointed and arse will be fine.

Nope wrong and not for the first time.

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You really must hate all teams in the league because at the moment they all only want to get to Europe for the money with fixtures close to home to keep expenses down and happy to go out after 2nd -3rd round. If they do make group stage happy to come last. You must be so frustrated.

Unless I'm missing somwthing, the problem Rovers face isn't with 'trying'. It's with the fact they're playing teams who are just a lot better than them. The higher you go in football the more that small margins become influential - and that's what you pay for from quality players. The difference between almost putting away a chance and actually doing so.

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Originally Posted by CSAD

No tactics just using Wikipedia, which maybe you being an old timer maybe haven?t heard of.

Yes they would have because they actually had a good manager.

What are you even talking about anymore, wise up for once on this forum.

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I take that as you saying that two of, in your opinion, the best managers in the league wouldn't have prioritised winning the league over winning hearts and mind in the group stages, should they had to choose. Did I get that right? On the other hand, there was no objection to my earlier characterisation of your previous statement as 'rovers were muck in qualifying, why are they muck in the groups'. Take it you still standby both opinions?

Don't worry about my lack of tech savvy. I'll stick with altavista. Like back in the old days. Do you know, this wikipedia might be useful, will add a bookmark to lynx. Oh, thank you, bless your heart.

I'd also like to thank you for the advice. Now would you be be receptive to some? Seems others have suggested, hinted, implied, told, even hollered about worrying kwibbling from your account and the need to do something about it. I too think you should tone it down. Pause, take a breath before posting. I can't speak for others but it's tiresome. Don't become the type of poster that nobody wants to be seen arguing with.

Of course there room to discuss Bradley's competence, rover's poor showing or perceived lack of ambition or reasons for any of the above. Take your cue from others, and do it without pi$$ing in everyone's lemonade. Users on more modern platforms would be getting mental health advice with their reported posts. Should we be concerned? Everyone should have someone to talk to, and check themself regularly.

The other thing was this great documentary from 2010. Really enjoyable. Of course norway deal better with these things than we do. Link. Looks good after this time,must give it another watch.

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Originally Posted by ontheotherhand

Jaysus oriel I'm not reliving the cup with you! ��

Do you really think we didn't have a go in the home games? I'd disagree with that. Away from home sure I'd agree but at home we've played well in both games. Points on the board as well which is more than Dundalk got in 2020 or we got in 2011.

What is "having a go" worth anyway? Is the 2020 Dundalk side lauded in song? I'd have almost forgotten you were in the groups to be honest. There were more striking stories coming out of Oriel that year than a few gutsy defeats.

Now the other Dundalk is a different story. They were brilliant and are rightly talked about as the best LoI side of all time. But it didn't last. We are attempting to build something that lasts. Maybe we are getting it wrong but it's odd that people don't see the reasoning at the very least.

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Singular term - POINT :D

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Originally Posted by oriel

Singular term - POINT :D

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Well now that we've lost the league we can focus on getting a second.

Well with the shackles fully off I expect Rovers to really go for it tonight. Gent are bang average in the league and their only win in Europe in 6 games was in the reverse fixture. Away from home in general they seem to be poor.
Rovers have created chances in the group games, they just haven’t been clinical so far. They need to take them tonight.
I fancy them tonight and would not be surprised if they sneak a win. Having said that, I went for 1-1 in the UEFA prediction league.

Big money still at stake too

You'd assume the Rovers players are on some sort of bonus structure for European results. This is essentially their last game of the season and a cup final for them, so they should be going all out to get at least a draw. One game tonight has the potential to earn them massively more money than 36 games in the league did. So they'd be daft not to go all out for it tonight.

Finn and O'Neill are injured and Burke and Byrne are doubtful.
Think a draw is about the limit of our ambitions tonight.

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Originally Posted by EatYerGreens

Unless I'm missing somwthing, the problem Rovers face isn't with 'trying'. It's with the fact they're playing teams who are just a lot better than them. The higher you go in football the more that small margins become influential - and that's what you pay for from quality players. The difference between almost putting away a chance and actually doing so.

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Haven't looked at this thread in a while funnily enough but the quoted post sums up the entire Rovers in Europe argument for me and applies right across Europe to the CL, EL & ECL group stages.

Rovers join the likes of Celtic, Rangers, Viktoria Plzen, Marseille, FC Zurich, Dynamo Kyiv, Helsinki, Malmo, Omonia, Olympiacos, Steau, Austria Wein, Vaduz and more in being thoroughly outclassed in this year's group stages.

Sometimes you're just not as good as the opposition and the job in that context is to qualify consistently and make incremental improvements year on year. Ange Postecoglou and Stephen Bradley among many others face the same challenge - translating domestic dominance into competitive European group stage campaigns.

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Originally Posted by WeAreRovers

Rovers join the likes of Celtic, Rangers, Viktoria Plzen, Marseille, FC Zurich, Dynamo Kyiv, Helsinki, Malmo, Omonia, Olympiacos, Steau, Austria Wein, Vaduz and more in being thoroughly outclassed in this year's group stages.

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I see your overall point but with one CL group game left Marseille can top their group if they win coupled with a draw in the other game.

On rovers, the gap between them and Molde/Gent/Djurgardens isn’t/shouldn’t appear to be anything like the gap between Rangers and Liverpool/Napoli/Ajax. Ludogorets (who rovers ran close and are currently lie in 2nd place in their group, 3 points above Roma) would be a better side than any of rovers group opponents but the group stage performances from rovers haven’t been near that Ludogorets 2nd leg performance level or even the 2nd leg performance level of the win against Ferencvaros who are current top of a group with Monaco/Trabzonspor/Red Star Belgrade and would absolutely stroll past the 3 sides in rovers group if they were paired with them

Perfect start for Rovers.

Cannot believe bookies were offering 6/1 for a home win.

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Originally Posted by MichaelCherrito

Perfect start for Rovers.

Cannot believe bookies were offering 6/1 for a home win.

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I could always see why the LOI was big for overseas betting.Some of the odds in games are ridiculous and show a lack of knowledge of the game here, even by the “local” bookies.

Great start from Rovers. Gent getting back into it though and - famous last words here! - you can't see Rovers keeping them out for 90 minutes really.

Crazy the amount of injuries Rovers have had. Lucky the league is wrapped up going into Sunday. At this rate Bradley be coming on.

Bit of booing at the half-time whistle there I think - what's that about?

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Bit of booing at the half-time whistle there I think - what's that about?

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Gent Fans according to Dan McDonnell.

Must be TV mics right in front of them; I can't imagine they'd have come across that clearly in the ground!

I've seen enough of young ferizaj now to see he hasn't progressed in the European games. His level is about the qualifier stage in Europe. Your pace only gets worse as you get older and he doesn't have that to set him apart, not the strength to hold off players and keep the ball and he can't sell a player. Good touch but that's really all he has. Now he's off

That goal's been coming a while in fairness, and so soon after the Ferizaj sending-off is a really tough blow.

Long 20 minutes ahead now.

And there ye go. Needless sending off. And they concede

Can't understand why Gent have dropped the tempo since the goal

Rovers, with the early subs too, should be far tireder here

Decent result overall.. neither team had many clear cut chances

When Ferizaj was booked just after coming on I had this feeling he would he would get sent off. The impulsiveness of youth. Lad is only young and he will learn from that.

Very good result with somewhat of a patch work selection. Been a good week for them.

The Mannus question arises again after that - couple of great saves at key moments.

Is he signed on for next season? Don't know if there's a long-list of candidates to replace him.

Last game will be interesting to see if Bradley has learned anything about the away games.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

The Mannus question arises again after that - couple of great saves at key moments.

Is he signed on for next season? Don't know if there's a long-list of candidates to replace him.

Last game will be interesting to see if Bradley has learned anything about the away games.

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You would think Djurgarden might rest a lot of players with the group sewn up. Mind you they are 6 points off top spot in the Allsvenskan with 2 games to play, so maybe nothing to play for there.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

The Mannus question arises again after that - couple of great saves at key moments.

Is he signed on for next season? Don't know if there's a long-list of candidates to replace him.

Last game will be interesting to see if Bradley has learned anything about the away games.

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One of the best performances I can remember from Mannus, three really top class saves, he looks like he certainly has another year in him.

A shame the injuries hit Rovers so badly, going in without Byrne and Burke and then losing McCann and Watts in the first half was tough to manage. Great start and a brilliant goal, but Gent were the better side for the most part. Couldn't understand the second yellow from where I was, if anything it looked like Januzaj was fouled, but his first yellow straight after coming on was just immature and naïve.

While Januzaj is still very young, I do agree with Paul that he might struggle to play at a very high level. His touch and foot work are exceptional at times, but he really does lack pace and that can be a career killer. If Farrugia can remain fit and start getting more 90 minutes under his belt he's the one that could really go on to a very high level. He's got height, pace, physicality and a good touch and positional sense. He's obviously had a terrible time with injury, but if he stays fit and gets a full season under his belt next season I think he'll go on to play at least at Championship level.

Good performance by Rovers. Very unlucky with injuries before and during the game. Ferizag needed to come off earlier - as Bradley admits here. This is a good take on Rovers in Europe - but Bradley just comes across as paranoid and over-sensitive when he accuses critics of 'bitterness' and having a 'cynical agenda'.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2022...in-the-league/

Thought we did well considering we had no midfield for most of the night. Nice to get the goal early and get that monkey off our backs.

Towell and Gaffney put in some shift and Mannus showed his usual class. Thought the red on Ferizaj was very harsh at the time and the second viewing hasn't changed my opinion. Giving a lad who has just come on a yellow for a jersey pull in a harmless area of the pitch is a bit bizarre and he was going for the ball for the second even if he did catch the player. If we had anybody to spring from the bench I think we might have held out for the win but the draw isn't bad overall.

Not sure who we have left to play against Derry and UCD now so thank Twigg the league is done.

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Originally Posted by ontheotherhand

Thought the red on Ferizaj was very harsh at the time and the second viewing hasn't changed my opinion. Giving a lad who has just come on a yellow for a jersey pull in a harmless area of the pitch is a bit bizarre

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Ah it's not in fairness. It was a fairly cynical effort to hold the defender back and stop him launching an attack, which is just not allowed, and there's nothing in the rules to say that you can get away with that within five minutes of coming on as a sub or inside the opposition half. Kerr described it as "stupid" and he's right. Second yellow was for being a bit late in the tackle and landing studs on the Gent guy's ankle - bit unfortunate as there was no malice intended, but still it's a yellow.

The goal in the second minute was huge; changed the feeling of every Rovers attack and Gent had to be much more careful because 2-0 would have been quite a challenge. Good performance overall especially considering the injuries, but agree with passing that Gent were the better side over the 90. Still, a point off a Belgian side isn't to be sniffed at.

Think I overheard a guy behind me at the match saying that Ferizah’s dad passed away a few days ago. Anyone know if that’s right? If so, I’m surprised he made it on the pitch at all…

Have to agree with most of the comments on here to be fair:
Mannus made some excellent saves. Having the best season I’ve ever seen him have.
Ferizahs yellows were quite silly.
Gent had the best chances so a draw is a decent result.
Gaffney is a beast. My POTY.
Rovers had a lot of bad luck with injuries so did well in the circumstances.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Ah it's not in fairness. It was a fairly cynical effort to hold the defender back and stop him launching an attack, which is just not allowed, and there's nothing in the rules to say that you can get away with that within five minutes of coming on as a sub or inside the opposition half. Kerr described it as "stupid" and he's right. Second yellow was for being a bit late in the tackle and landing studs on the Gent guy's ankle - bit unfortunate as there was no malice intended, but still it's a yellow.

The goal in the second minute was huge; changed the feeling of every Rovers attack and Gent had to be much more careful because 2-0 would have been quite a challenge. Good performance overall especially considering the injuries, but agree with passing that Gent were the better side over the 90. Still, a point off a Belgian side isn't to be sniffed at.

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It was a verbal caution maybe. First offence and no danger from that position. Different if the defender was on a break but he wasn't and we had loads of men back. Silly all the same but if a UCD player got one you'd be raging!

But you're making up things that just aren't in the rules. First offence and no danger don't matter in the rules.

If a UCD player got a booking for that, I'd call him stupid. It was as clear a yellow as you're going to see.

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Originally Posted by Philosophizer

Think I overheard a guy behind me at the match saying that Ferizah’s dad passed away a few days ago. Anyone know if that’s right? If so, I’m surprised he made it on the pitch at all…

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His grandad passed away.

He's 17 and has lots to learn - last night being a big part of that process - but he is a fantastic talent and prospect despite the opinion of well-known European football expert Paul O'Shea. He's currently being tracked by half a dozen of Europe's elite clubs but what do they know? A playmaker /#10 lacking burning pace, unheard of!

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Originally Posted by Philosophizer

Have to agree with most of the comments on here to be fair:
Mannus made some excellent saves. Having the best season I’ve ever seen him have.
Ferizahs yellows were quite silly.
Gent had the best chances so a draw is a decent result.
Gaffney is a beast. My POTY.
Rovers had a lot of bad luck with injuries so did well in the circumstances.

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I’ve read (and heard) a few times Gaffney getting put down for being in the POTY conversation, as he has only scored “9 goals” He actually has 12 goals and 13 assists in all competitions, This is a truer reflection of his returns this season. Also 3 of those goals and assists are in Europe which is almost always a higher level than the LOI. Not bad for a 33 year old.
He also does a lot more on the pitch during the match that may not always be obviously. You can see some of this in the post match highlights package Virgin Media did on him and Dunne/Kerr spoke about.
For me he absolutely deserves to be in the POTY discussion and probably should win it.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

But you're making up things that just aren't in the rules. First offence and no danger don't matter in the rules.

If a UCD player got a booking for that, I'd call him stupid. It was as clear a yellow as you're going to see.

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I'm not really. He pulled a shirt Stu. You see them given when it impedes an actual attack of course but this was harmless.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foul...misconduct.svg

But you hardly have time for internet arguments today do you? Huge game. Feeling confident?

From Pro Referees, the official body of the MLS referees, a yellow card is issued when -

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The defender blatantly or cynically holds/fouls the attacker as they are starting, or during, an attack. In this consideration, the nature of the holding offense is one that cannot be ignored, even if the promising attack is only just emerging or the offense occurs well into the defensive half.

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That fairly clearly describes the foul last night and "stopping a promising attack) is an added dimension to just a shirt pull. The foul they use an example is very similar to the one last night -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLCmHdNkWrg

Yellow all day long I'm afraid.

Can't predict Cup finals though - you should know that!