Munster Senior League

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29/05/2008, 10:32 AM
Footballer

Hacket scored after about 15/20 minutes. Very good goal & a great finish. Douglas had the better first half although with Mulchay getting on the ball quite a bit. The hall were well up for this one as people knew they'd be. Rockmount came into it after the hall scored and finished better than they started.
Second half started and Beechinor missed a chance when the ball dropped on a half volley for em. This player seems to have something on the hall as he outclassed their defense for most of the night. The hall had some great chances at 1-0 with a number of consecutive corners and one cleared off the line. It didn't look like Rockmount would score but as the game went on Rockmount pushed & pushed. 17 mins to go Rockmount scored from a free after Beechinor was fouled. The ball was kicked in and from a goal mount scramble the ball was put over the line. 1-1. From the kick off Rockmount robbed possession and passed to Beechinor who tore down the right wing and hammered the ball across the ball for the on coming O' Callaghan to kick in from 4 yards. 2 -1. Rockmount started to look like the league champions they are(were I now say!) 15 min left
Now this is where all the "unsavory incidents" started. I stood on the Rockmount side for the second have due to the wind & before the kick had been taken to restart Robert Brohan for the hall heat butted Cummins a number of times. Now both players were at it but the hall player did do the head butting. This sort of thing isn't needed in the game but how the Referee and linesman did not send him off then was beyond me. It was going on for a 30 seconds. The same player was sent off 5/7 minutes later for kicking Doyle in the Rockmount corner. The hall pushed on and in injury time had a free from the right hand side, which was very questionable. It about 20 yards out. Cullnane kicked the ball in & Long flicked it on, it fell to Wilkinson's feet for a tap in. 2-2. Rockmount should have defended it better
Now this is why I thought the player was wrong. The hall player(Wilkinson) ran 30 yards to Rockmounts dugout shouting. He came to within about 2/3 feet shouting( I couldn't make out hat he was saying) & the Rockmount line went mad, management, players & supporters. Maybe there must be something from the past few games but after this I'd say there'll be revenge on Rockmount minds for a few years to come. The game was nearly finished and Rockmount still pushed on with Beechinor making a great run in from the left and hammer a shot from 20 yards with his lift boot which went inches wide. Another Rockmount player had a better chance when the ball dropped on the half volley from 6 yards out only for him to blaze over. A tough shot to get under control. FULL TIME 2-2. Rockmount probably will go home more upset as it was there for them but the Hall worked hard and stuck it out in the end.
Howey, Byrne, & Beechinor played well for Rockmount while Mulcahy & O' Connell play well for the Hall.
Now from what I hear after there seemed to be a committee member from the Hall threaten Doyle from Rockmount when going into the dressing room. This led to a load of hand bags.
Referee: Finbarr Murphy: 5/10: Lost control of the game from an early stage and Brohan should have been sent off early on.
29/05/2008, 11:05 AM
Clifford

From what I hear Footballer, that is spot on. Good work.
29/05/2008, 1:31 PM
ball-hop

Not as good as the first league match between the two, but a decent match at the same time. Footballer's match report pretty accurate. Honestly didn't see afters following 'Mount's second goal. Sending off - no argument. Goal celebrations not too tasty.
Not having seen I wouldn't comment on further afters.
Wouldn't dispute footballer's assessment of the players who shone.
Interesting that both teams who played last night had their league ambitions severely dented by Everton and Blarney immediately following Intermediate cup matches. We dropped 6 points, while 'Mount dropped 4.
Finally, Cliff's suggestion to keep the Cup Final until the last match of the season would be great, but we still all suffer build-up of matches - cancellations, weather etc etc throws fixture lists up in the air and the matches remaining after the Cup final were all like cup finals for both clubs. It told in the end.
29/05/2008, 2:07 PM
razor

Few pics from last night here
29/05/2008, 4:07 PM
Shilts

Congratulations to Avondale.
However, this season's records will need to have an asterisk attached to show that the winners received 3 valuable points on appeal, and that Carrigaline, who were relegated, would have had a playoff if they were not deducted the same 3 points.
It is better to win it on the pitch, in my opinion, so I hope that Avondale win/draw with Rockmount at the weekend and win the league by more than the unearned 3 points :ball:
29/05/2008, 4:29 PM
Avondale No1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shilts

Congratulations to Avondale.
However, this season's records will need to have an asterisk attached to show that the winners received 3 valuable points on appeal, and that Carrigaline, who were relegated, would have had a playoff if they were not deducted the same 3 points.
It is better to win it on the pitch, in my opinion, so I hope that Avondale win/draw with Rockmount at the weekend and win the league by more than the unearned 3 points :ball:

So you think teams should be allowed to play illegal players and not face any repercussions? We might as well do away with the rule book altogether! What a load of rubbish. If the MSL hadn't taken the action that they did then the league would be open to widespread abuse. So you know what you can do with your asterisk!!

Unlucky to Rockmount. It just proves how difficult the double is to win. Well done Dale. A great run in the end of the season saw the league trophy come back to the southside!!
30/05/2008, 9:33 AM
Footballer

To be honest I do think it's harsh on Carriag. Fighting at the other end of the table and losing 3 points is tough especially if that could have kept em up. It was a great win for them at Avondale park and it's tough enough at the bottom end of the table as it is.
I am however for punishing teams if playing illegal players but in this case it wasn't that simple. After hearing the ins & & outs of the story I do think the match should have been replayed. Things are never that black & white Avondale No 1, just remember when Avondale played an illegal keeper v's Fanad a few years ago in the intermediate semi final. No punishment was given
However for Rockmount I think injuries cost them the league as they looked strong all year. I don't think Rockmount will complain as they had the games in hand to win the league.
From what I hear they went 52/53 games unbeaten in the league until the defeat to Everton
30/05/2008, 10:24 AM
Clifford

Quote:

Originally Posted by razor

Few pics from last night here

Some cracking shots, no wonder Finbarr finally gave us a decision by sending their lad off, look at the Rockmount militia behind the incident. Argghh. I'd be running scared as well....:D
30/05/2008, 10:30 AM
Clifford

Quote:

Originally Posted by ball-hop

Finally, Cliff's suggestion to keep the Cup Final until the last match of the season would be great, but we still all suffer build-up of matches - cancellations, weather etc etc throws fixture lists up in the air and the matches remaining after the Cup final were all like cup finals for both clubs. It told in the end.

Yeah, I know it isn't practical at all with the way the games pan out. Backlog is all part of it, but we played no game over Easter when the Dale got two played and at Christmas it was something similar. I respect the logistics of things with weather etc playing it's part, I hugely admire the people who run the MSL cos without them we'd have nothing, so it's not a gripe - just an observation. It's been thus for years and that's why Mount tried for both with such a strong squad this season. Tough one to call, but we gave it everything.
30/05/2008, 10:33 AM
Clifford

Quote:

Originally Posted by Footballer

However for Rockmount I think injuries cost them the league as they looked strong all year. I don't think Rockmount will complain as they had the games in hand to win the league.
From what I hear they went 52/53 games unbeaten in the league until the defeat to Everton

Yeah, over two calender years since last defeat in the league up til last week. All good things come to an end and hopefully two wins at the weekend will see us start all over again.
30/05/2008, 12:09 PM
Avondale No1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Footballer

After hearing the ins & & outs of the story I do think the match should have been replayed. Things are never that black & white Avondale No 1, just remember when Avondale played an illegal keeper v's Fanad a few years ago in the intermediate semi final. No punishment was given

They were punished as it turns out. They were kicked out of the Beamish Cup that season. It was following a complaint by another club who the player had signed for previously that alerted the MSL to the fact that this player had not transfered from his previous club. If the objection had been made following the FAI Cup match then they would have been dismissed from that competition also. The difference as I see it is that Carrigaline knew that the player was illegal when they played him but Avondale didn't know that the keeper was illegal as he never told the club that he had signed for another club earlier in the season and as a result they never got him transferred. Anyway thats all in the past now. Interestingly Avondale were alerted to the fact that Carrigaline played an illegal player by our good friends in Everton as the player in question was a registered player with them. Not sure if Carrigaline learned their lession either as I think they were involved in an incident where they tried to change the match card in an FAI Cup game in Dublin...correct me if I'm wrong. Anyway my arguement is that the rules have to be followed or else the competion will lose all credability.
30/05/2008, 12:22 PM
Avondale No1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Footballer

To be honest I do think it's harsh on Carriag. Fighting at the other end of the table and losing 3 points is tough especially if that could have kept em up. It was a great win for them at Avondale park and it's tough enough at the bottom end of the table as it is.
I am however for punishing teams if playing illegal players but in this case it wasn't that simple. After hearing the ins & & outs of the story I do think the match should have been replayed. Things are never that black & white Avondale No 1, just remember when Avondale played an illegal keeper v's Fanad a few years ago in the intermediate semi final. No punishment was given
However for Rockmount I think injuries cost them the league as they looked strong all year. I don't think Rockmount will complain as they had the games in hand to win the league.
From what I hear they went 52/53 games unbeaten in the league until the defeat to Everton

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clifford

Yeah, I know it isn't practical at all with the way the games pan out. Backlog is all part of it, but we played no game over Easter when the Dale got two played and at Christmas it was something similar. I respect the logistics of things with weather etc playing it's part, I hugely admire the people who run the MSL cos without them we'd have nothing, so it's not a gripe - just an observation. It's been thus for years and that's why Mount tried for both with such a strong squad this season. Tough one to call, but we gave it everything.

I would agree that it was a crazy task facing Rockmount playing 4 league games and 2 O'Connell Cups in the space of two weeks. Some might argue that that this is the price of success and have a fair point. However I do think that there are far too many lesser Cup competions being run by the MSL now and as a result league fixtures get pushed further back in the season. I believe Avondale didn't play their first leage match of the season until the middle of November. Before that they had Keane Cup, Donie Forde Cup, Munster Senior Cup, FAI Cup. They also lost a weekend for the Inter League and the O'Connell Cup at the end of the year. I know some of these trophies are traditional but enough is enough.

I believe also that the reason Rockmount didn't play over Easter is due to the fact that they normally take that weekend off and go on a club outing to the UK.

Looking ahead to next season (already!!) will it be the same faces at Rockmount or will the squad be added to further? I expect some big changes at Avondale Park. Not sure some of the new signings bedded in as well as was hoped. Might be a few old heads back in a few months!!!
30/05/2008, 12:40 PM
Footballer

So does the rules state that if you play an illegal player you are only kicked out of ONLY one competition? I doubt that. Avondale were not kicked out of the inter cup that season.
The rules seems to change to suit your statements.
FYI: The MSL have also now introduced a new rule regarding transfer of youth players. Now I have never seen a new rule like this implemented half way through a season. It suggest things weren't correct in the first place & also Carriag do think this player was illegal at all
2 appeals later Avondale got the points. The league didn't rule in their favour first. They just took 3 pts from Carrig.
In my opinion the game should have been replayed.
Unlucky Carriag: Hope ye come back up
30/05/2008, 1:24 PM
ball-hop

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avondale No1

I believe also that the reason Rockmount didn't play over Easter is due to the fact that they normally take that weekend off and go on a club outing to the UK.

'Hall played twice over easter and look where it got us... :(

Fixture lists are always an issue and it's hard to see where a solution lies. The fixtures secretary has an unenviable task (and its the same in the AUL and Schoolboys League)... can't satisfy all the people all the time. Much is the price of success and haven't Avondale and Rockmount made the most of that success - fair play to both - over the last few seasons. Both clubs have remarkable records and a fine collection of trophies. The team managers in both cases deserve credit for developing squads capable of keeping momentum right through the seasons.
30/05/2008, 6:13 PM
Avondale No1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Footballer

So does the rules state that if you play an illegal player you are only kicked out of ONLY one competition? I doubt that. Avondale were not kicked out of the inter cup that season.
The rules seems to change to suit your statements.
FYI: The MSL have also now introduced a new rule regarding transfer of youth players. Now I have never seen a new rule like this implemented half way through a season. It suggest things weren't correct in the first place & also Carriag do think this player was illegal at all
2 appeals later Avondale got the points. The league didn't rule in their favour first. They just took 3 pts from Carrig.
In my opinion the game should have been replayed.
Unlucky Carriag: Hope ye come back up

I don't want to go over old ground at this stage but the reason Avondale were kicked out of the Beamish Cup then was due to the fact that an objection was made to the MSL that an illegal player played in that particular Beamish Cup game. An appeal has to be related to a specific match and not just a general appeal. If an appeal was made against the club for playing an illegal player in an FAI cup game then the MSL & FAI would be obliged to investigate ths alligation and the club would have been suspended from the competition. I know for a fact that the Rockmount players held a meeting prior to that years Quarter Final and decided not to make an objection. I was also told that had they lost they would most probably have objected and this would have resulted in them being expelled. So as you can see the rules do NOT state that if you play an illegal player that you only get kicked out of ONE competition. So the rules have not changed.

I spoke to a Carrigaline player following the incident and he held his hands up that they were in the wrong. It was also alleged that they tried to sign the player in question on the day they played Avondale. Not sure if that one is true!

As far as Avondale bringing two further appeals that is just incorrect. Again to enlighten you about the rules a club can only appeal to the MSL once following their decision. After that you must go to the MFA and then to the FAI. My understanding of the incident was that the MSL made their decision and it was Carrigaline who made a further appeal and this failed.

Just want to clear up some mis-truths. By the way I would have liked to see Carrigaline stay up also as they are a good club. Also the fact of the matter is that Avondale were hammered on the day by them and that one player didn,t make that much of a difference. But as I have already stated, and this was my original point, rules have to kept if the league wants to keep its integreaty.

Anyway, no more of this. We have a game tomorrow and then we must celebrate!!
30/05/2008, 11:58 PM
messer

Congrats to Avondale on winning league. Always good to see them when they come to Dublin.
01/06/2008, 9:48 PM
razor

Cliffy, Any update on how the Dale-Mount game went on Saturday?
02/06/2008, 10:54 AM
Footballer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avondale No1

I would agree that it was a crazy task facing Rockmount playing 4 league games and 2 O'Connell Cups in the space of two weeks. Some might argue that that this is the price of success and have a fair point. However I do think that there are far too many lesser Cup competions being run by the MSL now and as a result league fixtures get pushed further back in the season. I believe Avondale didn't play their first leage match of the season until the middle of November. Before that they had Keane Cup, Donie Forde Cup, Munster Senior Cup, FAI Cup. They also lost a weekend for the Inter League and the O'Connell Cup at the end of the year. I know some of these trophies are traditional but enough is enough.

I believe also that the reason Rockmount didn't play over Easter is due to the fact that they normally take that weekend off and go on a club outing to the UK.

Looking ahead to next season (already!!) will it be the same faces at Rockmount or will the squad be added to further? I expect some big changes at Avondale Park. Not sure some of the new signings bedded in as well as was hoped. Might be a few old heads back in a few months!!!

Look,

It's been a great a great season for all concerned but I cut my response into 3 points

Firstly your facts are Horse ****. Rockmount never had a meeting between players any time up to or after that match. Yes, they had it on a management level and they decided that they would avoid going down that route. You can ask JC where the complaint came from as he was informed from a contact in Faned leading up to the match vs Rockmount.
Fanad were obviously aware of the ILLEGAL PLAYER & were trying to put in an official complaint but did not have the facts. Rockmount were asked about the facts but of course did not know em in full & were trying to find out

2:The FAI WERE contacted but Fand did not have the info in full. The MSL were asked verbally but not officially so did not feel obliged to give the information. The MSL did not want to throw out one of their own so kept it all behind close doors coming up to the Rockmount v Avondale Q-final game.
Once this game got close Fanad left it go. (ask Johnny C himself on this one)

3:Now Avondale played the illegal player. It was covered up by both the MSL and Avondale. Your moving the goalposts to suit yourselves on this one. End of story Avondale played an illegal player and were not thrown out, going on your own statement "rules have to kept if the league wants to keep its integrity"!

PS. Congrats on Avondale for the league. What a manger JC is after losing so many and bringing in fresh faces. Great man & great manager.

THAT'S FOOTBALL!!!!

Oh & by the way yes Avondale did appeal the leagues original ruling on the matter and only then did they get the 3 points
02/06/2008, 11:57 AM
Clifford

Quote:

Originally Posted by razor

Cliffy, Any update on how the Dale-Mount game went on Saturday?

1-0 Dale it finished. Not sure who scored it. Bit of a nothing game, neither side at it full belt for obvious reasons.

Cup final tonight against Everton should be fun.
02/06/2008, 11:13 PM
Clifford

2-0 win to Rockmount tonight. Comfortable win with Mickey Deasy getting one and Beech bagged the other.

Happy days....

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