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Correct - even if the player in question 2 had the referees permission, to leave the field of play, the referee still needs to send a signal for him to re-enter the fileld of play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jock MIB
Jock MIB the caution is not unsporting behaviour but entering and leaving the field of play are two of the seven cautionable offences, therefore this is what the player is cautioned for.
Getting better :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by The Ref
Please clarify,
If an attacking team take a corner, and the ball is cleared, and all players from both teams rush outside the box (with the exception of one attacking player, who remains inside the box), then the attacking team take a shot on goal but is deflected agaisnt an opposing defender, and it falls to the attacker that is still inside the box, who truns and scorec, is he on or offside?
Techincally, his team mate didnt pass him the ball, and it hit the defender before it arrived to him..........but I still think he is offside, coz I think the only way he could be onside is if the defender intentially passes the ball backwards towards the keeper!!!!
Please advise.
I Am Almost Certain That You Are Correct, The "played On " Rule Went Out In My Fathers Time
It is not an offence in itself to be in an offside position. A player is in an offside position if:Quote:
Originally Posted by abbeyvale
A player in an offside position is only penalised if, at the moment the ball touches or is played by one of his team, he is, in the opinion of the referee, involved in active play by:
- he is nearer to his opponents’ goal line than both the ball and the second last opponent.
- interfering with play or
- interfering with an opponent or
- gaining an advantage by being in that position
Now the ball was played by his teammate and has ended up to him doesn't matter if it was touched by opponent he has gained advantage by being there at the point the ball was struck and is now also deemed to be active in play.
So he is offside,
now if the ball was struck by opponent and hit teammate then again he would be offside because the moment his teammate touches the ball he was in offside position and also gained advantage.
I know the goal was missed so it doesn't matter, but when Bendtner blocked Cesc's shot last night he was flagged as offside.
In the replay I saw for sure that Hyppia was on the goal line and I thought Skrtel had slid over the end-line trying to block the cross. I thought that would have made up the two players required to play Bendtner onside. If not it seems the defending team got an advantage from a player not being on the playing surface, accidental I accept, but they still got an advantage...
I suppose what I'm getting at is if the keeper stands behind his goal-line/end-line does that mean that the offside line is the second last defender rather than the last???
just a quick one...
about a player gaining advantage from being offside..in our game winger got to endline inside the box ceossed and the defender headed the ball (although i know hw wanted to head it out) it went straight back to the attacker that crossed it and before he could shoot he was blown for offside.....
Ref said..player can not gain advantage in an offside position..when brought to his notice that it was a defender he said it didnt matter.. he booked 3 players not giving out just wanting to know how he came up with idea im still confused....
it would mean i could pass the ball back to g/k while the forward is in an offside position and attacker can not challange...beggers beliefe?????????
If the way your are discribing it is accurate and i'm not disagreeing with it ,then the attacker is not offside as the ball did not get touched by a teammate for him to occur an offside offence even though he is ahead of the last playerQuote:
Originally Posted by bigguy
the last point you made about pass back to the keeper a player can never occur an offside offence unless it is touched by a teammate
Thank you jock mib...ya it happened the way i said..if he had just admitted he made a split decision mistake, im sure lads then would of said well ok, he was big enough to admit it and get on..that in itself is what is wrong with alot of refs, they wont comunacate with players if they are wrong..anyway thanks again
In my absence Jock MIB has been keeping the seat warm, for that thank you
I agreeQuote:
Originally Posted by Jock MIB
I agree, Law 11 states "A player in an offside position is only penalised if, at the moment the ball touches or is played by one of his team,..."Quote:
Originally Posted by Jock MIB
As he is the last player from his side to play the ball he cannot be offside.
I didn't see any football this week as I was refereeing a couple of mid-week fixtures.Quote:
Originally Posted by Innishvilla
But from what you say. As the player accidently left the field of play, the referee cannot punish him under Law 12 (i.e. yellow card), however, the moment he left the field of play, he is no longer part off (a bit harsh I know) therefore offside is technically the correct decision.
As for the second part of the question.
If the goalkeeper steps behind his goal line deliberately, he should be cautioned under Law 12 for "deliberately leaving the field of play without the referee’s permission". Play must be stopped and an indirect free kick given to the attacking team because you have stopped play to administer a caution.
Play cannot continue as Law 3 states "A match is played by two teams, each consisting of not more than eleven players, one of whom is the goalkeeper. A match may not start if either team consists of fewer than seven players." as the defending has no technically no goalkeeper the play must be stopped.
All theoretical really, I don’t think I ever seen it.
Cheers ref... Cleared things up again as always...Quote:
Originally Posted by The Ref
Here is the best picture from another thread
http://foot.ie/showpost.php?p=912174&postcount=30
Carragher's hand is on line and therefore the player has to be onside.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBoss
Now this offside rule is really confusing me,
looking at picture Bentner is behind Hyppia and reina has went out to the ball.
The rule says he or she is offside when ther are nearer to his opponents goal line than both the ball and the second last opponent.
so in the picture the roles have been reversed with hyypia being the goal keeper and reina the defender.
so REF is that why this has been given offside.
if so this is so confusing so the situation arises that a defender stays on the line and everybody rushes out including the keeper leaving lone attacker near goal line in front of everybody bar the defender on the line and the ball ends up at him then even though there is a defender on the line , he is technically offside.
i just asume the last opponent is reference to the goal keeper and the second last opponent then refers to the outfield players but looking at this and reading the rule , my interpretation is seems wrong (not for first time :D).
another example that can happening goal keeper goes into box of opponents leaving lone defender in own half and counter attack involving two players head into opposition half, player two is ahead of player 1 but in line with lone defender ball gets played to him from player 1 he is offside cause he is front of ball and second last opponent.
can you assist me with clarifying these two situations are they offside or onside?
The Laws state 2nd last opponent, in the vast majority of cases (about 99%), as you state, the last opponent is the goalkeeper, leaving an outfield player as the 2nd last opponent. You seem to have become so accustomed to seeing the goalkeeper as the last opponent, that all you look for now, is the last outfield opponent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jock MIB
In your frist example the player is offside as there is only one opponent between him and the goal.
In your second example the player is offside as there is only one opponent between him and the goal.
You may even have a case where the goalkeeper is in fact the 3rd last oppenent
example: at a corner a goalkeeper goes to the ball, an attacker wins it and the ball drops to an attacker 1 yard out and there are two defenders standing at the posts. The player here is onside as there are two opponents between him and the goal.
Yes Carragher's hand is on the line but that would take some really eagle eye'd linesman to spot that one!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBoss
If a player is on his way towards goal and is taken down by the last defender is it not a red card to defender as he is last man back.???
If a team starts a game in yellow gear and get soaked to the skin from rain. second half they arrive out with blue gear also worn by the opposite teams goal keeper. Is this not a clash of jerseys.???
A player is booked for mouthing to the ref about a free kick given against him. He has fouled at least 3 or 4 time prior to booking, he continues to give away free after free but stays on the pitch and continues to abuse ref. Is this the norm???
What Game and When? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by smellyfeet
Quote:
Originally Posted by smellyfeet
Question 1. If the foul denies a genuine goal scoring opportunity and there are no other defenders that could intercept the player - the player should be dismissed
Question 2. A bit of common sense is needed here. The Law books doesn't cover this scenario but if one team changes their jerseys you would ask the goalkeeper would he mind changing his. Theoretically you could force the goalkeeper to change as Law 4 states "each goalkeeper wears colours that distinguish him players, the referee and the assistant referees" but as he was using this jersey in the first half I don't think it would be fair to force him to change.
Question 3 dissent is a cautionable offense as is persistently infringing the laws of the game, however the referee must take into account factors such as the length of time between free kicks. Its a tough one and one that on the balance most referees get right.
Player get his marching orders, and leave's the field of play.
Players manager confronts the ref and tells him that his team
has a big cup match few days later and that the player would
be a big lose for that game as he was sent off and would be due
suspension in next game......wait for this one......Ref tells player
to come back onto the pitch and change's red card to a yellow..
Is this allowed??
Is this crackers??
Is this making a mockery of the beautiful game??
Who can ref be reported to apart from the Guards??
If a player is on his way towards goal and is taken down by the last defender is it not a red card to defender as he is last man back.???
If a team starts a game in yellow gear and get soaked to the skin from rain. second half they arrive out with blue gear also worn by the opposite teams goal keeper. Is this not a clash of jerseys.???
A player is booked for mouthing to the ref about a free kick given against him. He has fouled at least 3 or 4 time prior to booking, he continues to give away free after free but stays on the pitch and continues to abuse ref. Is this the norm???
you really are getting them arent you :DQuote:
Originally Posted by smellyfeet
Just a few simple questions, thats all.
Yeah but only one refers to advice on the rulesQuote:
Originally Posted by smellyfeet
Is this Allowed?
the rest is personal :)
All i know in the rules is unless the Game has restarted a official is allowed reverse any decision he or she made. if he or she has made a mistake in the red card offence and the game has restarted then he or she may put in the report after the game stating that and it would b up to the committee in the respective league to decide the punishment
Law 2 states a referee may only change a decision on realising that it is incorrect or, at his discretion, on the advice of an (independent) assistant referee, provided that he has not restarted play or terminated the match.Quote:
Originally Posted by smellyfeet
Also Law 2 provides that the referee enforces the Laws of the Game and
takes disciplinary action against players guilty of cautionable and sending-off offences. He is not obliged to take this action immediately but must do so when the ball next goes out of play.
If the referee genuinely felt he had made a mistake, fair play, he was man enough to admit his mistake. If however the referee changed his decision to be popular, appease a manager, assist in a team circumventing rules etc, then this referee, in my opinion, is bringing refereeing in general into disrepute.
If you feel this to be the case, you should report the facts to your league and if the referee is a member of the Irish Soccer Referees Society (you will see the badge on his jersey) to its branch secretary (here is a link to the Dublin Branch http://www.dublinreferees.com/) where they will take appropriate action.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Innishvilla
Hi ref I asked the question a month or so ago regarding exactly what happened last night with Van Nistelroy's goal. It looks like the law differs from what you said to us then. As the law makers are saying that even though he is not on the field of play he is considered to be the equivalent of on the end-line, hence not offside...Quote:
Originally Posted by The Ref
i missed game and havent seen highlights, what haapened?Quote:
Originally Posted by Innishvilla
Goalkeeper knocked his own defender over punching the ball out,the defender ended up off the pitch beside the goal,ball came back in and V Nist tapped in from what looked like offside position but player off pitch deemed to be still in play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jock MIB
Hi Jock,
A cross came in which Buffon flapped at but he also collided with Panucci. Panucci fell to the ground over the dead ball line. The ball came back into the box and Ruud was in what looked like a clearly offside position when he tapped the ball into the net. The flag never went up.
RTE contacted two refs and they both said that Panucci was deemed to be still active as he did not receive permission to leave the field. If he leaves the field of play of his own accord then he is deemed still active and therefore Ruud was onside.
[FONT=Frutiger-BoldItalic][SIZE=1][LEFT]Player outside the fi eld of play[/LEFT]Quote:
Originally Posted by larrywhite
[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Frutiger-Light][SIZE=2][LEFT]
If, after leaving the field of play to correct unauthorised equipment or
kit, to be treated for an injury or bleeding, because he has blood on
his kit or for any other reason with the referee’s permission, a player
re-enters the field of play without the referee’s permission, the referee
shall:
• stop play (although not immediately if the player does not interfere
with play or if the advantage can be applied)
• caution the player for entering the field of play without permission
• order the player to leave the field of play if necessary (infringement
of Law 4)
If the referee stops play, it shall be restarted
• with an indirect free kick for the opposing team from the position
of the ball when play was stopped * (see page 3) if there is no
other infringement
• in accordance with Law 12 if the player infringes this Law
If a player accidentally crosses one of the boundary lines of the field
of play, he is not deemed to have committed an infringement. Going
off the field of play may be considered to be part of a playing movement.
its the only thing i can find in the rule book that might shed some light but its isn't real clear on the matter[/LEFT]
[/SIZE][/FONT]
Well thats just it. The linesman last night considered him lying on the ground off the field to be part of the playing movement.
As the lads on RTE said, it was a very strict interpretation of the rules. Brady disagreed though and said the official should have used common sense and deemed him not part of the play. But whos to know if hes injured or not? After the goal went in Panucci got up.
I always thought that he would have been considered out of play and therefore RVN was offside but the rule is quite clear and states the opposite. You learn something new every day. :D
I know it is a topic that's been beaten to death. But the red card last night really ruined the game.
Don't get me wrong the referee had absolutely no choice in the matter clear goalscoring opportunity - he had to go, by the current laws.
But in my humble opinion I think that a penalty still remains a clear goalscoring opportunity so I feel it would be a good idea to let the referee decide on the balance of the situation.
eg.
Ball heading into top corner/net and defender handles well then it was a guaranteed goal - penalty + red card
While last night the striker still had to beat the keeper clumsy tackle by last defender - perhaps penalty plus yellow
On a separate note Luca Toni was so bad at finishing last night that Abidal shouldn't have bothered tackling him at all...
When this Law was introduced a number of years ago, it was to bring an element of consistency into referees decisions. Players were becoming cynical when they were the last defender and fouling the attacker (professional foul) who was on route to goal. In a number of high profile incidents, the referee only cautioned the defender (and in one case didn’t even award a free kick http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coSfM...eature=related) so something had to be done. In my opinion it's an excellent Law.Quote:
Originally Posted by Innishvilla
Also referees only enforce the laws and if a decision he makes ruins the game as a spectacle, well that’s the players fault, not the referee; he knew the rules when he made the tackle.
The experts on RTE and other stations do not know the laws of the game
just wondering once a game is finished extra time over too,can a team change their keeper from penalties
If a goalkeeper is injured he may be replaced by an eligible named subsitution if the team have not used all subsQuote:
Originally Posted by daz22
A eligible player (a player who has finished the game and not subsituted )may replace the goalkeeper at any time in penalty kicks
Hey there.
Two questions about sending offs.
1. If a player has been sent off during a game & game goes to penos what happens?
2. If a player is red carded or gets second yellow, en route to sideline during substitution, is the substitute allowed to replace him?
Cheers.
1. The opposition must reduce their team by one as the laws provide:Quote:
Originally Posted by Xatraps
"If, at the end of the match and before kicks start to be taken from the penalty mark, one team has a greater number of players than their opponents, they must reduce their numbers to equate with that of their opponents and the team captain must inform the referee of the name and number of each player excluded"
2. The substitute is not allowed to replace the player coming off. As the Laws state:
"the substitute only enters the field of play after the player being replaced has left and after receiving a signal from the referee" and;
"the substitution is completed when a substitute enters the field of play"
it is only:
"from that moment, the substitute becomes a player and the player he has replaced becomes a substituted player"
If the player was sent off prior to him leaving the field of play the substition has not been completed so the substitute has not been considered a player
Is this legal??Quote:
Originally Posted by strangeirish
For all you need to know about Laws of the Game, have a look at the Laws page here; www.isrscork.com
Jwal
Nice home page , love the tune :D but i think the guy was looking for a simple yes or no answerQuote:
Originally Posted by Jwal