Petition to wind up Accolade (Shels)

Printable View

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

19/03/2006, 2:10 PM
pete

I don't think any of this would make much difference if clubs didn't require a club licence to compete in the league as many clubs holding companies have gone to the wall in the past & then sold on the rights to the club contracts to the new board. However there seems to point to the licencing if this is allowed to continue.

Probably the best scenario is that Accolade go to the wall. When Accolade are wound up they sell on the Shelbourne FC title to a new company with new Directors. In this scenario a certain O Byrne would not be allowed to be invlived in the new company.
19/03/2006, 2:30 PM
A face

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete

Probably the best scenario is that Accolade go to the wall. When Accolade are wound up they sell on the Shelbourne FC title to a new company with new Directors. In this scenario a certain O Byrne would not be allowed to be invlived in the new company.

But what will happen with their spending? �900,000+ .... i'm no accountant, but that cannot go on. And the �300,000 tax that is owed, what happens to that?
19/03/2006, 2:50 PM
Dodge

The sam that happened Drogheda's. its written off and they start fresh.

it can't go on
19/03/2006, 3:20 PM
A face

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodge

The sam that happened Drogheda's. its written off and they start fresh.

it can't go on

Jebus ... we should all do that so !! :eek: :(
19/03/2006, 4:43 PM
Poor Student

The Ireland on Sunday has a page article on the Shels affair today. They quote an interview they published with none other than Ollie in August. He stated in it that he had written a letter to the Revenue to tell them he would not be paying any more tax! When asked why, he stated that it was due to Rovers being given a deal. He also claimed yesterday that it was an accident that they didn't pay up. He claims he thought the April 2nd date was the normal deadline and said he is quite embarrassed. :rolleyes:

Is it possible this is a protest that backfired on him? It was in print in August.
19/03/2006, 4:54 PM
Mr A

Jeez you couldn't make it up!
19/03/2006, 5:14 PM
Poor Student

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poor Student

In Slovenia they fecked out NK Olimpija Ljubljana for doing the same thing. A club who recently knocked Shels out of Europe coincidentally. The club finished in a European spot and were denied their place as they had no licence and ended up dying despite being the most famous club with the strongest tradition in the country.

Also the above that I just said appeared slightly reworded in the article. The jounalist referred to them as "Ljubljana" which is actually another club, so it showed he had no idea what he was on about. Did he steal my post!?
19/03/2006, 5:25 PM
SeanDrog

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodge

The sam that happened Drogheda's. its written off and they start fresh.

it can't go on

get your facts right. Drogheda were forced by the league to reinstate the company , pay off al debts and this included the tax. In the emantime they couldn't sgn players. They had a few days to pay 100k of debt off (lets see others do that) and then in the off season couldn't sign players till the old hinge trading company was reinstated and the tax sorted.

If you want exact detaiuls ask Jim Roddy of Derry he will fill you in as he kepot a very close eye on it.

So please before typing get your facts right and Shels should have to do the very same.

Dodge disgusting misinformation and something I would have thought you better of.
19/03/2006, 6:39 PM
Passive

Poor Student: Ollie said that he wouldn't pay a cent more in tax after we went in examinership.

That was because Ollie looked at situation a) a company with no assets and no ability to pay off debts seeking to be taken over by a consortium who could turn the business around if given a relatively clean slate, and mistook it for situation b) a company with a very valuable asset who would prefer to redirect their taxes away from Revenue and towards their own expenses.

We've been saying this about Shels for years but their fans weren't interested in listening.

I hope Shels survive this (and I think they will) but hopefully it might force Shels fans to wake up.
19/03/2006, 6:50 PM
Poor Student

Passive, whatever my feelings on your tax deal I fully appreciate there's no comparison and he hasn't a leg to stand on. It's just interesting, did he carry out his "threat"?
19/03/2006, 6:54 PM
A face

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passive

I hope Shels survive this (and I think they will) but hopefully it might force Shels fans to wake up.

Do Shels fans have a trust ??
19/03/2006, 7:03 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by A face

Do Shels fans have a trust ??

Yes. A total and unnerving trust in Ollie....
19/03/2006, 7:37 PM
Mr A

Realistically is there that much Shels fans can do unless the club is wound up and they go down the AFC Shelbourne route? From what we've heard of losses etc a fans takeover in any other circumstance is unlikely to be feasible.

On the other hand if I were a Shels fan I'd be demanding a meeting/fan's forum with the club to find out what exactly is going on, as nobody seems very clear on this on the Shels MB.
19/03/2006, 9:41 PM
robbieos88

Serves them right

Mod edit :

Come on man, add to the debate, dont bring it down.
19/03/2006, 9:48 PM
Gareth

I think there should be a thread started where people can go and post their hatred and bitterness towards Shels so that other threads can be more sensible? Or maybe this is the thread??

People are talking about fans taking over clubs like its something you do on a weekend for some sport. Bit more complicated than that. Especially when it is the opinion of most people on the board that Shels fans are underage or non existant!!
19/03/2006, 9:54 PM
A face

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gareth

it is the opinion of most people on the board that Shels fans are underage or non existant!!

Hah ha ... theres that too i suppose !! :p

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gareth

People are talking about fans taking over clubs like its something you do on a weekend for some sport. Bit more complicated than that.

First up anyway .... is there a forum planned with the fans ??
19/03/2006, 9:59 PM
Roverstillidie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gareth

Especially when it is the opinion of most people on the board that Shels fans are underage or non existant!!

well here is your chance to prove it

have the club made a statement yet?
not a 'oops', but a detailed explaination of why the revenue haved moved to wind the firm up and especially after ollies very public utterance that he wouldnt pay tax after rovers agreement?
will you insist on them opening the clubs books to an independent audit?
will you form an independent sc that is not funded by the club?

or will shels fans come on here and tell us that we are all 'bitter and jealous'?
19/03/2006, 10:02 PM
Gareth

When a meeting is called, Shelbourne fans will be informed and invited to attend. It really isn't a matter for anyone other than Shelbourne fans though. On a higher level, all clubs actions are relavent to others, but a fans forum is not one of those things!!! All news will be on the Shelbourne website eitherway. :) Apart from that, I really don't have anything more to add to this thread!!

RoverstillIdie, I have nothing to prove to you! :) Nor do I wish to enter into a long drawn convesrsation with you on this, cos I know where they lead to and I dont have an inbox big enough!! :)
19/03/2006, 10:03 PM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poor Student

The Ireland on Sunday has a page article on the Shels affair today. They quote an interview they published with none other than Ollie in August. He stated in it that he had written a letter to the Revenue to tell them he would not be paying any more tax! When asked why, he stated that it was due to Rovers being given a deal.

Can you imagine if he claims that defence in court?! Although being on record in the papers as saying it - and presumably on record in letters to the Revenue - is not going to help his case in the slightest.
19/03/2006, 10:13 PM
Roverstillidie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gareth

When a meeting is called, Shelbourne fans will be informed and invited to attend. It really isn't a matter for anyone other than Shelbourne fans though. On a higher level, all clubs actions are relavent to others, but a fans forum is not one of those things!!! All news will be on the Shelbourne website eitherway. :) Apart from that, I really don't have anything more to add to this thread!!

RoverstillIdie, I have nothing to prove to you! :) Nor do I wish to enter into a long drawn convesrsation with you on this, cos I know where they lead to and I dont have an inbox big enough!! :)

i am aware that you have nothing to prove to me, see the other thread. but you cant just clam up an this and say it only matters to shels.

we are in the first division after the authorities decided we had lied on our licence application. were you at it as well? again, its the optics that shels can ride roughshod over the rules.

are you even concerned by any of this?
19/03/2006, 10:16 PM
Gareth

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roverstillidie

you cant just clam up an this and say it only matters to shels.

Did you read my post? "On a higher level, all clubs actions are relavent to others, but a fans forum is not one of those things" Does that sound like I think only Shels matters matter to Shels? I was talking about a Fans forum!! :)

I am as concerned as I need to be. Thanks for asking.
19/03/2006, 10:23 PM
Raheny Red

Just want to say that the Shels fans on here (including myself) and there are not alot of us on this forum either, do not speak for the rest of the Shels supporters! So if you lot read a post here it is not all the Shels fans same line of thinking!
20/03/2006, 8:50 AM
Macy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galway Harps

Let's try and keep some level of perspective here- Shels may be the most high-profile overspenders but they're by no means the only ones. We have fans of clubs that are total financial basket-cases themselves howling for Shels blood without a hint of irony. The league is still riddled with this financial madness and ultimately its hurting everyone- the clubs that do it because they endanger their future, and the clubs that don't because they must compete against them.

If you look at most clubs this year they've seriously cut budgets. Infact I'd say only Shels and Drogs are the ones that haven't. Town have seriously cut the budget, although some handy money from Drogs has helped that.

I think the difference is most clubs have fans questioning where the money is coming from, and the amount paid out to players by them, even if their club has been overspending. Shels fans have just claimed we're all jealous.

Some clubs, including Harps in the past lets not forget, get sucked into trying to compete with the crazy money on offer by some clubs like shels, and bohs for a while. Most are beginning to cop on (either by their own decision, or by the threat of revenue) and cut their cloth accordingly.
20/03/2006, 9:08 AM
Macy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogue Trader

Not in the last 5 seasons ! actually to be fair to Harps i never remember them spending money like wild fire so not sure what seasons or era you are talking about ?

They're still paying off the debts of the last time. I'm really not having a go at Harps at all, but they've played the overspend game too. Fair play for them getting their house in order, especially with pressure being put on by some of their managers in the press.
20/03/2006, 10:45 AM
Strabane_Harp

This is all happening too often people, Harps, Derry, Drogs, Rovers and Shels and many other clubs have all had massive problems in the past years

Its about time the FAI/Eircom League took it seriously

Clubs should have a wage cap imposed to a percentage of there income from the previous season.

thats the only thing i can think of would help
20/03/2006, 11:06 AM
pete

It does seem that the FAI are starting to take finances a lot more seriously. Remains to be seen if they backup the talk with action.

I would be very interested to see how accurate the monthly financial statements are to the FAI. I suppose its easier to fudge this at the start of this licencing process but going forward the FAI will have several years of financial records (can't use floods as excuse for lack of records) to monitor clubs more directly.
20/03/2006, 11:08 AM
Macy

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete

It does seem that the FAI are starting to take finances a lot more seriously. Remains to be seen if they backup the talk with action.

Pete, where's the evidence of this?
20/03/2006, 11:18 AM
CharlesThompson

"Pete, where's the evidence of this?"

Because they're saying it.

Speaking of saying stuff, have $h��$ issued a statement yet?
20/03/2006, 11:19 AM
A face

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roverstillidie

will you form an independent sc that is not funded by the club?

Here is an independent fans group for Shels !!

I knew there had to be some group at least.
20/03/2006, 11:20 AM
higgins

Its pretty sick to see so many of you wetting yourselves over shels being wound up!!

Firstly Id like to say that if shels DO NOT pay their tax bill I am 100% behind the revenue on this wind up order and although it would be a sad day as a Shels fan I think it’s fair enough and the blame lies on the side of the people/person running the club.

Secondly to all those who are jumping in with the Shels are cheating and gaining an unfair advantage on others by over spending, your talking bullsh!t. I said the exact same when Rovers were faced with a big bill and that was, until the day when Shels, Rovers or anyone else get away with paying their debts they have not broken any laws. As has been pointed out by Rovers fans everything they did was legal in the eyes of the law and the only problem I have with them was that they cheated others clubs along the way by getting out of their debt and starting a fresh when they built the debt up at other clubs expense.

Legally they were right but I think the FAI should have had some rules in place to cover a situation like examinership. They didn’t and its water under the bridge, I wish rovers the best under their new board but Shels have not refused to pay anybody as of yet so your jumping in a bit early with the cheating comments. Its not against the law to overspend! Shels have obviously run into cash flow problems but speculating is well within the law so again as long as all debts are paid in full then what's everyone's problem with how Shels do their business?

If others are to be believed then plenty of clubs owe money to the tax man and plenty of businesses owe money to the tax man, there's nothing illegal about this. Having debts is part of business (not ideal of course) and if Shels pay up and get back on track with the money they owe then they cant be accused of cheating in anyway.
20/03/2006, 11:28 AM
Macy

Can I just ask Higgins, are you at all worried by the current situation? Is there any discontent amongst Shels fans even at this stage, or is it still blind faith in Ollie?
20/03/2006, 11:34 AM
Speranza

I wouldn't say it's blind faith just an acknowledgement that the football authorities have turned a blind eye to previous misdemeanors and are likely to be soft on Shels again. Judging by their posts here they don't understand the potential consequences of Byrne Laden's actions.
20/03/2006, 11:36 AM
sfc red

Lets put it this way Macy, there is a lot more discontent from fans of all the other clubs. I never even heard it mentioned on Friday night. I dont think everyone always had blind faith in Ollie.
20/03/2006, 11:40 AM
pete

I honestly don't think most people here want Shels to fold or anything. Some people are just sick of the way Ollie has basically made personal attacks on other clubs & just not very sympathetic towards his problems now. Shels also seem to have been irresponsible in not trying reduce this costs when their revenue has decreased as other clubs seem to have woken up to.

I think feelings about Ollie can be separated from those of Shels to some extent.
20/03/2006, 11:40 AM
bohs til i die

Quote:

Originally Posted by higgins

Its pretty sick to see so many of you wetting yourselves over shels being wound up!!

Firstly Id like to say that if shels DO NOT pay their tax bill I am 100% behind the revenue on this wind up order and although it would be a sad day as a Shels fan I think it�s fair enough and the blame lies on the side of the people/person running the club.

Secondly to all those who are jumping in with the Shels are cheating and gaining an unfair advantage on others by over spending, your talking bullsh!t. I said the exact same when Rovers were faced with a big bill and that was, until the day when Shels, Rovers or anyone else get away with paying their debts they have not broken any laws. As has been pointed out by Rovers fans everything they did was legal in the eyes of the law and the only problem I have with them was that they cheated others clubs along the way by getting out of their debt and starting a fresh when they built the debt up at other clubs expense.

Legally they were right but I think the FAI should have had some rules in place to cover a situation like examinership. They didn�t and its water under the bridge, I wish rovers the best under their new board but Shels have not refused to pay anybody as of yet so your jumping in a bit early with the cheating comments. Its not against the law to overspend! Shels have obviously run into cash flow problems but speculating is well within the law so again as long as all debts are paid in full then what's everyone's problem with how Shels do their business?

If others are to be believed then plenty of clubs owe money to the tax man and plenty of businesses owe money to the tax man, there's nothing illegal about this. Having debts is part of business (not ideal of course) and if Shels pay up and get back on track with the money they owe then they cant be accused of cheating in anyway.

1. Shamrock Rovers were punished. They got docked 8 points for obtaining a licence by default and because of the financial position they cut their squad and got relegated. They have gained absolutely no advantage over other premier division clubs this season becuase they arent in the premier division.

2. I would love to see Shels get wound up because I hate Ollie Byrne. This man is an official of your club but time and again he brings disgrace to the game.

3. Having debts is part of business but Shels dont seem to be willing to manage their debts until they are forced to. Proof, if it was ever needed that the groundshare was dreamt up to save your club.
20/03/2006, 11:41 AM
A face

Quote:

Originally Posted by sfc red

I never even heard it mentioned on Friday night.

:eek: :confused: :eek:

There you have it right there !!
20/03/2006, 11:43 AM
Macy

Quote:

Originally Posted by sfc red

I never even heard it mentioned on Friday night.

Not even mentioned? Shels fans are beyond help if even now it's not an issue.
20/03/2006, 12:07 PM
sfc red

You have to remember that most football fans are not as active as you people on here. Most just turn up to games, watch the football and go home. People's lives are complicated enough :D
20/03/2006, 12:51 PM
higgins

Can I just ask Higgins, are you at all worried by the current situation?

Yes I am very worried !
But if you have ever dropped into Shelsweb you will have noticed a whole load of posts questioning Ollie over the last couple of years and there have been many calls from the fans for meeting as to what is going on regarding the sale of Tolka/ paying off our debts and wage bill.
Ollie owns shels and the fans cant change that, he has always come up with the goods before and I think many people do have faith in him. Its not BLIND faith as you lot post on here as Shels fans are well aware we have debts and are paying players money that can only be maintained by success on the pitch. Some are happy with it and some are not but due to Shels being owned by Ollie its not something anyone like myself can control. If I had my way and Ive posted countless times on this, the money used on players would be cut and a greater effort made behind the scenes to increase revenue. There have been reports before of clubs cutting deals with the revenue and agreeing on a series of payments but it has never meant fans get together and oust the owner of that club!

What has happened is serious, of course it is but you have to all admit that it is the first time revenue have played hardball like this with EL clubs and as someone else pointed out others could be next. Ollie would be pleading with the fans Id imagine if this was nail in the coffin time and as he has not come near us I don�t think its as bad as some of you would like to believe. As for the shout that Ollie could turn his back and walk away :) yeah right!!!

Whatever happens in April it is clear we have cash flow problems and are in debt but if you asked Ollie two weeks ago were Shels in debt he would tell you yes!! Its no secret but at the moment its debt he has built up and it was debt I believed he would clear in a legal way. Ollie owns Shels but the running of the club is always questioned on the Shels message board.

Maybe what has happened now will make others sit up and notice that we don�t have loads of money? And in fact we do have a tax bill like other clubs!
20/03/2006, 12:55 PM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by higgins

there have been many calls from the fans for meeting as to what is going on regarding the sale of Tolka/ paying off our debts and wage bill.

Just on that - there was a meeting between, I think, Reds Independent and Ollie a year or so ago. Before then, RI were very vocally against selling Tolka, and after that, they suddenly were all in favour and wouldn't tell anyone why (I think that's the way it transpired). What was that meeting about, can any Shels fan tell me, or what's the general view about what was said at the time?

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page