Quote:
Originally Posted by weldoninhio
if youve been paying attention youd know tchouameni doesnt start much. the other 2 changes were clearly tactical but again you seem knowledgable so im sure you can tell us why both of those changes were made.
Quote:
Originally Posted by weldoninhio
if youve been paying attention youd know tchouameni doesnt start much. the other 2 changes were clearly tactical but again you seem knowledgable so im sure you can tell us why both of those changes were made.
You're a gas man. Able to tell what would have happened, no need to play any games we can just have Mystic Weldoninhio tell us what's gonna happen in every situationQuote:
Originally Posted by weldoninhio
He was definitely tired. He put in a hell of a shift. I don't feel he was exhausted. But these things aren't black and white. One mans tired and another mans exhausted might be the same thing. Unless we're talking about Stephen Roche in La Plagne these things are clearly points on a spectrum
But I'll say thing again in case anyone missed it.
Running on fumes or not, he's demonstrated he has a poachers instinct and we needed a goal. IMHO we needed to get him more support, not hook him.
Yes, he was tired, but that doesn't automatically mean he should have come off. When the ball was being fired in to the box in the last 10 minutes he was our best chance to bundle something over the line.
france dropped coman and didnt play diaby because they wanted to use giroud for his aerial ability for knockdowns. they dropped pace for a target man because they knew we'd sit off. but anything to discredit the performance...
I think with all the talk of playing a different style, it's worth noting that our biggest threat against France came from set pieces. Some Kenny fans like to dismiss it as a dinosaur tactic but is it worth having Duffy on the bench for the last 10 minutes? It was made for him last night.
I'm disappointed in your lack of acknowledgement for Anthony Barry's replacements replacement for our plucky defeat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
All credit to John O'Shea obviously ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
In the cold light of day it does feel like a point dropped. To concede from what was really the only mistake all night and to have their keeper pull off an absolute world class save was really cruel. Not sure anyone can argue the approach was wrong in any way. I thought we kept the ball really well in the first 10 minutes, then after that we had to sit back and be compact and we did struggle to get our for a lot of the first half. Yet there was very little threat on goal from France, the shape was great, Coleman and Ogbene faced down Mbappe and never gave him an inch and when we did counter it was with purpose and Ogbene, Ferguson, Knight and Doherty all won set pieces in dangerous areas with smart attacking play. It is a big weakness to have Cullen on set pieces, he just can't quite get the same whip as a true specialist and we only looked dangerous once, with the flick on from Egan falling to O'Shea.
Second half started reasonably well and then the goal came, nothing more to say about it that hasn't been said. I blame my wife, she decided to take a video, only one of the game, and it coincided with the goal. No more of that in future! Response to the goal was excellent, never panicked kept going about things in a really disciplined way and the pressure gradually built on France. Incredible that Mbappe was never really given a half chance, at one point he did manage to leave Coleman for dead but Collins read it brilliantly and stopped him in his tracks. Cullen finally delivered a couple of good corners and the French keeper pulled off a good save from the OG and the one from Collins was just incredible. In real time I just couldn't comprehend how he'd reacted to fast and got a hand to it. In replays it does look like maybe Collins put it in the one place he had a chance to save it, but it was a powerful header and the keeper had no right getting such a strong hand to it.
All the players came out with credit. I've said before I like Doherty on the left because he has to concentrate and be more disciplined and that brings out the best in him. Some of his runs were excellent and he was never troubled defensively. Ogbene is just a joy to watch, absolutely tireless, quick, strong and direct. I think with the possible ball to Ferguson it was only on if he played it early, I thought the defender had cut the angle once he went towards the endline and he actually picked out a super ball to Knight which he just couldn't quite take in his stride. Knight and Molumby worked themselves into the ground and never wasted the ball, Cullen too even if the glaring error can't be overlooked. Ferguson had some touches of class and was a bit unlucky with a couple of ref calls against him. Coleman has been rejuvinated the last few weeks and you could see him relishing every chance to get stuck into Mbappe, Bazunu did all you could ask of him and the three in front never really put a foot wrong. All the subs had an impact and contributed to the dominant last 15. One of the few times I think Kenny escapes criticism for his changes, the timing and the personnel were pretty much bang on. Only argument might have been to get Smallbone on for his set piece delivery.
You're right. I should have realized Kenny had nothing to do with setting up that team, it was all John O SheaQuote:
Originally Posted by lofty9
No I didn't watch the match. I turned on the TV and looked out the window at the birds and bees.
Seriously.....
We're playing Greece at night. You ever been in Greece at night and felt the heat, let alone run your bol***** off in it. Reference the games in Armenia and Georgia in arguably lower temperatures.
You might need to rewatch it then.Quote:
Originally Posted by mark12345
It's actually not that hot at night. We'll be fine. Interesting that the heat in Georgia was never accepted as an excuse but maybe something has changed.
I don't think that was the case though. France were generally ponderous in attack, disinclined to counter too quickly, and generally played at a really slow pace that never stretched us too much. Bazunu was a spectator for much of the game for example.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
Hernandez in particular was poor, letting the ball run over his boot and out of touch a couple of times under no pressure, so we can't claim any credit for that for example.
Yes, we defended well and kept our shape very well, hit them on the counter when we could - particularly as the game went on - but I think we can acknowledge that France being poor helped us put in such a good showing, while also acknowledging that we did play quite well ourselves.
Its a pity that we must default to discrediting the opposition every time we compete at this level. France played as well as they were allowed to play.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
We lost last night. Our first home defeat in Euro qualifiers since 2010. It puts us in a difficult position to qualify from this group. It's a very strange time to try to claim vindication for sticking with Kenny after 3 years of awful results.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
No need to rewatch the game. France were not there for the taking. Your opinion is yours and thats fine but it's one which is definitely unique. And as far as the heat situation in Greece. Kenny even referenced it in his post match comments and rightly so.
I genuinely wonder if some of you lads ever get any joy watching Ireland.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
I'm not gonna bother arguing with you here. I disagree with everything you said. We just went toe to toe with a team that was in world cup final 3 months ago. We keep the most dangerous player in world football under wraps all night but it was all down to them being poor.
I need a fcukin break from this place I think
It's not unique, maybe you need to re-read this thread even, nevermind rewatch the match. Have our players never played in 19 or 20 degrees? I looked at Kenny's interview this morning. It was dreadful so I wouldn't be taking much from it.Quote:
Originally Posted by mark12345
I’ll catch up on others’ thoughts when I have time. In Starbucks Malahide now just before heading to the airport.
What a frustrating night. We kept France at bay quite efficiently until yet another brain fart / perfectly executed shot combo.
Ferguson is a masterful 9 already. He shielded the ball well and drew fouls all night.
Bazunu looked like a grown up keeper looking like he belongs at that level and like he knows he does, unlike the boy playing in the EPL wondering if his next mistake is coming soon.
Most others played well and worked hard. But one or two disappointments. I actually think Ogbene had the measure of Hernandez and I’d have liked to have seen him isolate him more. And for all his graft I think Molumby’s use of the ball was very conservative. I felt he turned back towards our goal too much, maybe expecting a tackle that wasn’t coming. He had space to turn into and attack a few times but didn’t seem aware of it.
I think Kenny got it about right. Restrict chances and trust that we’ll get a few ourselves. Be still in the game with 15 to go.
The last 10 mins wasn’t unlike previous managers but I’ve no issue with that. The game plan nearly worked and small margins on the pitch were the difference.
I think we’re able to up our game against good teams but I still worry that lesser teams bring our level down too. Greece will be hard but I feel players like Smallbone and Johnston will be too clever for Gibraltar.
It was a very enjoyable game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
France were poor.
Those things are not mutually exclusive.
I did not say it "was all down to them being poor" (my emphasis); that's you reading what you want to read in my post.
A good night for Kenny - he got the shape of the team right, and his tactics and substitutions right. But inconsistency is always the problem. I suspect, that apart from the games against Gibraltar, Ireland may only win one other game in this group - against Greece at home. The 'feel good factor' is high at the moment - It's very frustrating that the next game isn't until June.
-------------------- Bazunu --------------------
----------- Collins - Egan - XXXX ---------
Coleman ---- Cullen ---- Molumby ---- XXXX
-------- Ogbene ------------------ XXXX ------
------------------- Ferguson --------------------
Moving things on a little, are we all more or less agreed that this is the basis of our team for the foreseeable future?
Ah stop will ya! If you are on fumes, the first thing to go is your ability to be where you need to be at the time you need to be there and, not far behind that, is your brain letting you know where you need to try to get to. With all respect, that is just a bad take.Quote:
Originally Posted by backstothewall
We played some really attractive stuff to get to the point where we had corners and free kicks in dangerous areas. The way Kenny used Ogbene was brilliant too. Mixed it up between good passing and balls into the channels.Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA
Pretty close. Though I think that Kenny takes more of a game by game approach to things as we saw last night when it comes to deploying his personnel. Regarding your team there, id say the following:Quote:
Originally Posted by backstothewall
Bazunu guaranteed starter for the foreseeable future.
I think the back three of Collins, Egan and O'Shea picks itself now. They were all excellent last night.
I think it is likely a toss up between Doherty and Coleman at RWB especially if O'Dowda is our new, long-term LWB. These wide positions are a problem area for us, need to try and bring more options through.
Cullen and Molumby - check.
Ferguson - check (Idah an effective deputy i think after last night - I was pleasantly surprised by what he showed - demonstrated the Portugal game wasnt a one off).
I think it is going to be a toss up between Ogbene and Obafemi with Obafemi getting the nod in most games. Ogbene when we're likely to have less of the ball and as an impact sub.
Knight and Smallbone are probably in close competition and, again, i'd say its on a horses for courses basis.-
Ya Evan pointed to him, to play it across the box into the middle, Ogbene took the easy option. He should have gone another couple of yards using his pace to make that ball in front of Ferguson easier to make its target(between penalty spot and 6 yard box). Ferguson had about 2-3 metres on anyone and a big open space to run into. It was very disappointing. I guess that Ogbene isnt quite at that level. If that was France it was a goal, into Giroud. Ferguson needs good supply like Giroud does for France to be effective. That was fairly apparent last night, thats where his strength is and his running showed it throughout last night.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
France played as well as they needed to play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid
Some individual points I picked up on. Dont have time to elaborate for now:
France are real athletes. Fine specimens of men!
Coleman, saddens me he really should have been at a champions league club for the majority of his career. Great game.
Can Ogbene be the next Coleman, slow steady rise into a top class player.
Why were our set-pieces so bad given we focused solely on scoring from set-pieces? That training ground move was so bad and so easily read.
A game of 1 half and 2 quarters.
Yesterday showed we dont need to have all the possession, or keep ball for the sake of keeping ball. This was an entertaining game that focused on the important things, until it didnt and we conceded.
Can players like Molumby, knight and Ogbene deliver these performances when its not Tier 1 teams. Are they big game charlies?
Collins looks great when he has support around him and he doesnt have to do a man marking job.
France toyed with us for 20 mins where we were chasing shadows. They also identified to press high after about 20 mins and we werent capable of playing out - no bad thing we played great intelligent balls over the top and hoofed it under pressure in the first 45.
Ogbene was much better when the shackles were off and he was given the freedom to get forward.
Ferguson hopefully learns from this type of game whats required of him in an Irish Jersey and not just a Brighton jersey.
Idah held the ball up better when he came on I thought but I still don't see anything extra from him - ball for mccleans chance aside.
Cullen will find it much tougher in the PL, I thought he generally did well, but he was not able to dictate our own play like he normally did - not focusing out of possession.
Kenny for me got the first 45 spot on. He still wouldnt say it was wrong to play the ball around the box, against lost possession and a worldie. Thats 20 in 24/5 now. And many are correlated to our losing possession.
Was it just me or did Kenny sound a lot better post match? Perhaps all the frustration felt by most of us lead to his inability to articulate himself. He needs to balance his emotions.
Thought our subs were generally very good, france had settled for 1 goal and get home, but they all made impacts of different kinds that got us on the front foot and driving forward.
Loved Collins and Molumby driving on the crowd. It was class. But is that something that soothes with experience and age? I feel so but I hope not.
Deschamps said exactly that, "we did what we needed to do, we got 6 points". I do think though he thought Ireland would roll over once the first went in. France just want to get through these games without any injuries.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
That said we played well. France probably didnt need to hit 5th gear but we were still very good at what we had to do.
A couple of additional comments...
1. The ball from Cullen just before there goal. There was a chance for him to play a simple ball around the corner of a French player for Doherty to run onto into space. I saw it in real time (easy sitting on the couch) but it would have been a fairly high percentage pass. Not sure if Doherty would have made a shout or not. Instead Cullen seemed to panic a wee bit and rolled it to Knight who had also stepped up a bit early. Very unfortunate and could equally have been us breaking away.
2. Paul - i thought Kenny was awful again in front of the camera last night to be honest. He gets so nervous and has a hard time formulating his thoughts and articulating them. I love the man but I feel uncomfortable watching him at times. You might remember but it was one of my biggest fears when he was announced as the future manager because it goes back to his Bohs days. That sort of nervous energy/manner is something that i thought would see him crucified by the media and fans (and to be fair, they haven't).
They only "needed" to beat the Netherlands 1-0 as well on Friday. Instead of sitting back against far superior opposition to us they went for the throat and could have won by any score. But their footballing perspective changed magically last night and only did the necessary against us, despite acknowledging after the game that Maginan's save was worth a goal. I find that analysis overly negative tbh. We did a good job on them and restricted a team who skittled a lot better teams than us 7-1, 4-0 etc. over the past few years to 2 or 3 long range efforts. In my opinion that is more down to our tactics than any other factor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
That was because France figured out if they press us high up we dont have the ability to play the ball around. We hit some balls over the top, one or two misplaced ones though( actually 3/4 from Coleman his only blight), to counter this and it was mostly effective. That's what made the goal so disappointing.Quote:
Originally Posted by passinginterest
I felt that at the time, but didnt want to comment until I'd seen it again on TV. If there were enough power and not across his head, he went for accuracy over power instead of a hybrid approach, that was a goal. A world class save but as Roy Keane says "that's his job". World class keepers will make World class saves. But I do feel nitpicking when saying that, hopefully he recognises that himself though.Quote:
In replays it does look like maybe Collins put it in the one place he had a chance to save it, but it was a powerful header and the keeper had no right getting such a strong hand to it.
Agreed on the last paragraph I dont feel anyone had a bad game.
I don't think there's a need to pigeon-hole it; it'll move around a bit game-by-game. Three months between games means things will change, especially with a young squad.Quote:
Originally Posted by backstothewall
Ogbene played very well yesterday in a pretty thankless role, but he was on the bench the second half of last year and people were happy with that. Against a team where we need to actively create more up front, does he start? Johnston would almost be the first name on my teamsheet against Gibraltar based on what I've seen of him so far, but I'm not sure if he'd get away with those jinking runs against Greece (just better defenders). This may well be Coleman's last campaign - does that constitute the "foreseeable future"? (And maybe it does) And we've always got to be flexible enough to allow for a Ferguson exploding onto the scene.
It reminded me of the qualifier v Germany, a tense raucous support, faced with disciplined aggressive defending the very talented Germans only had one or two shots on target, that game even had the spectacle of Wes recklessly giving the ball away in front of goal but it went unpunished, yet this time we are fated to get get nothing in the end. I have absolutely have no issues with fans getting excited for the future, but I'll wait and see how this performance is carried forward, when Greece are beaten home and away, see how we close down Greece trying to play ball out and be able to withstand and play around Greece pressure in our half. Then 3 points or 2 draws v Netherlands who won't be sh'itting themselves this time. This was probably the best time to play France at home after their sky kissing celebratory performance in Paris the other day, we have missed an opportunity.
Someone yesterday mentioned that Collins could have gone back the other way with more power and I am not convinced that a) it was feasible and b) that Maignan wouldnt have saved that too (you can see from the photo his starting point was very central - he'd likely already started moving right when the photo was taken). I think Collins did pretty much everything right with that header and it was a moment of goalkeeping brilliance.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
edit: maybe if he had gone the other way, Maignan would have blocked it and it could have fallen to Idah or Johnston... if and buts...
https://img.rasset.ie/001daa47-1440.jpg
France usually play as well as they need to play to win away from home. They don't really blow teams away - in the last ten years, they've scored four goals away from home against Andorra, Moldova, and Belarus.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
That's an amazing photo. Collins did everything you would tell a centre half to do in that situation - put the ball in to the hardest place for the keeper to reach it, the top corner. The save was world class, and considering how little he had to do in the game, he still made two saves right at the end of the game to preserve the win for France.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
Its not top corner though. People need to stop saying its top corner. its upper right side past halfway between centre and right post but its not top corner.
The photo on rte shows how little mikey micky got to it but yet generated so much power. Egan was over exuberant as well, if he hadnt the ball would have come to our two players on the 18 yard line anyway.
With respect that's just not true. Just because you lack the energy to press from the front and chase after lost causes, doesn't mean you can't still play between the lines of the penalty area, offer a at set pieces and take a couple of steps to find a bit of space in the area when the opportunity comes along. We were coming up to the point of the game when we didn't really need his running anymore. Of the remaining 25 minutes there was always going to be 15 of them spent with us camped outside their penalty area.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
On the Collins header, it was just an incredible save. The first save was good but you would expect him to make it. The one from Collins he has no right at all to keep out of the goal. Maignan was worth 2 points to France last night.
That's an angled photo in fairness. A more central angle shows it was maybe a yard or more inside the post -Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/images/ic/400xn/p0fcbn9k.jpg
I don't think that takes away from either the quality of the header or the save. But it wasn't quite top corner.
His right foot is 60% or more to the right along the goal line and he’s at full stretch. It might not have been in the absolute corner but had it gone in you’d say he scored into the top corner. Constant nitpicking here about everything is driving me nuts.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
He's 28 until he's 29 - that's how it works.