And Genesis report was supposed to make sure everything ran professionally after Saipan too.
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And Genesis report was supposed to make sure everything ran professionally after Saipan too.
It recommended an external CEO be appointed. Instead, Delaney was appointed by a panel that included himself. I didn't think much of the Genesis report when a group of us finally got our hands on it, but the FAI just hid behind it while ignoring it wholesale.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
Sounds just like how, Irish Politicians behave.Quote:
Originally Posted by John83
i think this was later denied by Ray Treacy who organised the trip on behalf of the FAI. his side of the story was that the sandwiches were only a pre training snack and that a full dinner including pasta was available after the session.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
possibly the best away performance that I can remember on the back of it all though!
Treacy (God rest him) was the man who organised Saipan.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
Saipan was only to acclimatise and ‘have a few beers/blowout’ according to McCarthy; before the real work began.
They misjudged the whole thing.
It was a disaster of a destination.
Also there’s this story which may be a bigger part of the story than we think:
https://www.sportsjoe.ie/amp/footbal...k-clegg-253830
Well done on your restraint. They're not foreign at all. Wholly inappropriate, not just a "wee" bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by third policeman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
It’s not wholly inappropriate. There’s a valid point there that could’ve been made more eloquently.
Someone from Nigeria who possibly didn’t live here at the time isn’t going to have as vivid a memory of the incident as someone Irish living here who was fully invested in that team and remembers that debacle well.
Hence, the aforementioned won’t pass the story on to their kids the way the latter might.
A lad who is born and raised in Ireland to immigrant parents is not a foreigner. We all understand the point that was being made, but the words used are simply wrong and are completely inappropriate. Its that kind of BS nonsense that a lot of these lads grow up having to listen to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
Kind of depressing that people are still going on about this all this time on. I suppose it brings into sharp relief our lack of on-field achievements in this time. I went on the Indo's site early on and almost their entire sports section is dominated by this, with multiple articles from the time being republished.
I was, of course, extremely disappointed at the time because it was our first tournament appearance in eight years - which seemed aeons to me at that age - and Keane was our captain and indisputably our best and most important player. But I understood that he was never all that committed when it came to playing for Ireland, seemingly considering us beneath him, or at least of a far lesser priority, with his main focus always being United, and I always suspected he would retire from the international scene long before he ended his club career. Keane just didn't want to be there, his heart wasn't in it and he eventually got his way. So, I simply supported the players who did want to be there and we acquitted ourselves very well.
The state of football in this country, the fact that we haven't qualified for a World Cup in what will be at least 24 years, and what we might do to remedy this, is probably what we should really be talking about.
At no point did I say that a lad born and raised in Ireland was a foreigner.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
I also said the point could’ve been made better.
Calling them ‘foreign guys’ is clumsy.
I think we’re in agreement there.
But I don’t think the original poster’s intent was to be nasty.
So I didn’t take it that way.
No you didnt, the original post called them foreign guysQuote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
Yes. Hence my ‘clumsy’ commentQuote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
My point is that its more than just Clumsy and a lad shouldnt have to deal with comments like that because hes blackQuote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
I agree that a lad shouldn’t. But I don’t think there was ill intent in the comment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
Why are you bringing skin colour into things? That's got nothing to do with anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
If you want to say it may have been made more eloquently, then fine, but ultimately at the core was the distinction between what - Irish and foreign background? Culture? Is that terminology really so much different? You have to differentiate them somehow in this context when it's core to the point that's being made. Which wasn't judgemental or discriminatory - just a matter-of-fact observation.
Talk about inappropriateness is just getting offended for the sake of it to be honest.
A player born in Ireland is Irish, not foreign.
The poster misspoke, and has admitted his mistake.
Let's move on
This offends me.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
As someone who didn't live here back then, I had never heard of Saipan before I moved here and developed an interest in Irish football. I think I'll never fully grasp how big a thing it was back then (and apparently still is now). I can completely relate to an immigrant family who might just have come here a few years before if the incident doesn't mean as much to them as it does for the average Irish supporter. And if it doesn't mean much to them, there is no point passing it on to the next generation.
I think i might have heard or read something about this way back but it long since left the memory bank. Really interesting angle to it alright and id say it definitely would have played a big part in Roy's mood and perspective. On the face of it, would seem like a good idea and a trick missed by Mick McCarthy to pull together some quality backroom supports but would this guy have really been able to do much to impact the squad in the couple of weeks prior to the tournament?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
I missed that completely. I was sure I'd poured over every article and interview at the time and don't think I ever saw mention of Clegg.
I'm not sure who I agree with for that specific incident. McCarthy had a team and probably didn't want to offend anyone or work with someone he didn't know. That seems fair. That said, if we snubbed the chance to bring in someone with that kind of pedigree and our captain was asking for it then it seems like a poor move by Mick. At worst he could have allowed Clegg to join Roy alone. We had time to train and we wasted some of it in Saipan so I'm sure he could have made some sort of impact.
Thanks for sharing Fixer.
Definitely an interesting read. On paper Clegg definitely seems like he would have been a great addition to the back room team, but the timing would have been very odd.
If you’re McCarthy and have just guided a squad to the World Cup, are you bringing in a complete unknown person to your back room team just weeks before a major event like this? If you’ve got good squad morale/a good dynamic, I wouldn’t be doing any unnecessary tinkering with an unknown person that close to a World Cup.
And yet….I’d look at what he’d achieved with ManU and certainly strongly consider it.Quote:
Originally Posted by irishfan86
Looks like it would’ve given us an advantage over other teams
So one surely would expect Keane also to have advised Brian Kerr to bring Clegg on board.
Perhaps. Perhaps he had an open conversation with Kerr about it and Kerr explained his reasons why he wouldn't bring him onboard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapshot
I get the impression McCarthy would see something like that as his management of the team being undermined.
Do we know when Keane approached Mick to include Clegg? If it was in early May, with all the plans already in place, then it's unreasonable
If it was in January, when the plans were being put together then it was probably worth a look
On the other hand, Mick had been in the job for six years at this stage, and knew and trusted his team.
McCarthy had to reject such an idea. How could he do otherwise? It was a ridiculous proposal given the circumstances. If Keane believed Clegg could make a big difference he surely would have proposed the same idea to Kerr. I doubt he ever did - Kerr would have done anything to get Keane back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
Keane's response would have been nuclear had such a late-late proposal been thrown at him at Sunderland, Ipswich, Villa or Ireland.
one of the criticisms of our Euro 2012 finals preparation was that the players were flogged to death in the few weeks before the tournament and we suffered as a result.
not sure what difference this lad would have made between the end on the EPL season and start of the WC. remember the wc started in late may in 2002.
surely his kind of fitness work is something you mainly do pre-season?
Yeah, I've read numerous footballers talking about training come May being mostly light ball work and tactical stuff, especially if they've a busy run-in. The running up mountains stuff is for pre-season. That said, there's probably a good deal a top fitness coach knows about the right trade-off. If you go too far the other way, or say have a few weeks without any matches at the end of a season, there's presumably a drop-off in performance. Hitting that sweet spot where you keep the players at peak performance for the tournament is maybe harder than you'd think. It may even require personalised training depending on the player.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
I would say Keane is a controlling lunatic
Anything to interfere and gain levels of control. He attacked the man u ( no 2) Portuguese guy. Because he wasn't happy with the villa his family were. provided with for pre season in Portugal.
That wasn’t the reason at allQuote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
But I agree Keane is a difficult character and possibly a control freak. His United team mates all seem to have respected him and got on fine with him though. And looked up to him
Keane was Gary Neville’s, Minder, and a good few more of that Utd team as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
https://variety.com/2024/film/global...ne-1236086199/
I daresay they'll try to stick to portraying what really happened, but I'd prefer if they went back to the old Hollywood ways and applied a bit of creative licence to historical events, for increased dramatic effect etc.
I'm thinking of the, er, "interpretation" where Keane tells Mick that he's nor even Irish and Mick turns round, beats the living **** out of him, then casually remarks: "Carsley, you're playing central midfield now" in a low, Clint Eastwood-style growl.
I'm all for creative licence but Carsley played just 1 minute in the tournamentQuote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
I think the person who broke the tension was dean keilyQuote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Who stood up and offered his services in central mid
Apparently the room exploded laughing
That was my point.Quote:
Originally Posted by elatedscum
Meanwhile, fine actor as he is, I'm not sure Steve Coogan is the best man for to play Big Mick - at least unless he's prepared to have his nose broken for authenticity.
Personally, I'd have cast Liam Neeson instead, with the part of Keane played by Warwick Davis, being instructed to use a really bad Cork accent in a very girly, high-pitched tone.
Would also need to find a place for Gary Neville somehow, on the basis of his unerring ability to laugh uproariously like it's the funniest thing he has EVER heard at even the mildest of Keane's quips.
I for one can’t wait to see this cinematic portrayal of a much underreported and under-investigated event in modern Irish history.
The real casting decision I'm waiting on is Triggs. I heard they're trying to get Ryan Reynolds.
Interesting to see how they do it.
Clinton Morrison said he made the 'English cnut' remark, Quinn said he never said it.
McCarthy also said in interview with Dunphy that he did ask Roy to come back and Roy said 'no'
As Big Mick is basically retired ~ He should tell us the story from his side ~ He doesn't really have anything to lose at this stage ~ Let the truth reign.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82